I am not sure this is the right forum for this but, here it goes anyway. This has some information most here probably already know just has numbers to it. The article is not entirely about Soccer but is mostly about youth Soccer. http://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/lower-income-students-getting-shut-out-sports-n164941
There have been many intermediate youth soccer programs that have surfaced in my neck of the woods. Programs that are around $600-$700.00 per season and possibly less because most are ala cart. It's a great idea and seems to be placing pressure on larger programs to offer a similar program which sits between Rec and Travel. Frankly I think more major clubs should do this. There is a proven need for this sort of program and it could help to identify talent as well as get parents more in tune with programs. I'm rather surprised that more major clubs are not looking at such concepts.
When I coached we never let a players in ability to pay stop him from playing. As a matter of fact most of the youth players I coached Parents were working poor. When I was a kid I was poor. But we did not really know it because every one around us was poor. We used to find soda bottles and get the 2 cents deposit on them. That was how we got money. There was a lady she had a little house built to the fence of the local park. She gave pints of milk to the kids for a penny a pint. She did not want it to look like charity. If she gave the milk out for free no one would take it. So she charged a penny for it. Like I said soda bottles were every where. You got 2 cents and could buy the milk. I would not be surprised if she planted empty soda bottles. When we coached youth teams we charged them some money to play.60 dollars a season fall/spring was all one season. Indoor and tournaments. Plus as many friendly games as regular season games. Price for all that including uniforms was the same 60 dollars. They did not even have to pay the 60 in a lump sum. It could be paid over the span of the year. We never asked about it ever again. We always got the money. I learned a lot from that nice old lady. No coaches took money to coach back then. A lot of the coaches owned their own businesses. The clubs were run by bars and restraunts as well. So that is how we paid for it all.
Nickalino I agree with much of your post. I know where we are at they work with kids and parents all the time. I've known them to cut 75% of the costs for kids whose parent had a meager income and I am sure they could do more if they had to - they may have, I just do not know.
So they are trying to do the right thing. Here is the rub older teams like under 19 never have to pay to play if they have talent. Clubs are fighting to get the great under 19s on their team. So they offer them anything to play with them. Even money under the table. Help new players Get no show jobs to give them money. Help their parents get real jobs with club alumni who own their own businesses. This is a true story there were three Nigerian Olympic players who stayed here with their chaperon after the Olympics. They played for a club team and got money under the table to play. The guy with the club who paid them was late for the game. They were paid up front. They refused to play for the coach until they got their money. The coach went wild he picked up a broom and started to hit all three with it. Chased them out of the club house and told them never to come back again
I have seen many clubs that talk of providing scholarships or assistance and have seen it in action with my son's club but I think you still lose some of those players due to items either not contemplated by the club or not able to be addressed. My son's team had a player that was unable to pay and he played for free, a phenomenal striker. The family did not have a car so those families that lived close to him always provided rides to games and training (fields were about a 30 minute drive from his home). This generosity began to run out after about 18 months as there were only a couple of other players that lived nearby so the same families were always responsible for someone extra. Tournaments became another matter as the player had no way to travel and no money for room and board. He was always offered a ride but the club took the approach that whoever took him to the tournament became 100% responsible for his costs during the weekend, you can imagine again generosity ran thin after a couple of out of town weekends. Fast forward to last year and he became a no show. He played high school soccer with several of the team members and was slated to rejoin the team but was a no show and no one knew what happened to him. We had an early spring tournament and surprisingly he was on the first team we faced, a team from 3 towns away. No one could figure out how he could manage to get to that clubs facilities. In hind sight, and looking at where the club is based, I think this was a subsidized housing issue. Due to family finances he had had to move and could no longer get to our club's facilities. Fortunate for him there was another club able to scholarship him that if my guess is correct trains right across the street from his new home. It looks like he was fortunate but how many others maybe fall into this same scenario but don't get the fortunate bounce of the ball. I think the training and fees are the easy pieces to figure out. It is the items that fall outside of the scope of the club (travel, housing, meals, etc.) that the clubs can not control and the burden falls to those already paying inflated fees to pick up the slack for, in many cases, kids they hardly know.
How much is spent on the player is not the obligation for a team mates parents. It is up to the club. If what you are saying is true. They might also lose the player who is helping the team mate. If a team mates parents are expected to do this they better be wealthy.
That is eactly the direction things were going. The same parents (due to geography) were always expected to be the benefactor. I was just reading an article about the NCAA approval to let the big conferences essentially spinoff as it relates to rule making, one of the key components of the NCAA situation is being able to pay the full cost of college attendance. I think the same thing is at work in club soccer, a scholarship is great but in most cases does not cover the full cost of club soccer and as a result some are lost due to the ancillary costs.
we are not rich. we live in an area that has a high cost of living. we do not have a big house, new cars, eat out often or take regular vacations. our daughter's soccer is a priority and we sacrifice to give her those opportunities. we could never afford an ECNL team but she still plays at a high level. Sometimes she travels without us but we always pay a portion of the hotel/gas costs and her food. I think the story above is the exception but nothing frustrates me more than when I know a teammate is on scholarship and I see the entire family of 5 going to the Disney tournament and spending time at the parks. the kid always has a few pairs of cleats, both parents regularly get new cars and are always eating out. IMO if you can afford to do this, you can afford to pay all your child's fees. why should I be helping?
I would agree it is not your responsibility to pay for others. But since you keep such close track on how your daughters team mates are living you must be an Obama voter. Jealous of what others have instead of trying to get some on your own. That is why who gets what from the club should be a club secret. Frankly it is non of your business what help the club gives a team mate. Worry about your own daughter business, and not others. We had a forward on the team. His parents were very wealthy they owned the Long Island Rough riders and the lady rough riders. He was one of the benefactors of paying the metro ovals back taxes and renovating the field. He would pick up the whole tab for sending his sons team to tournaments. The whole tab for every player on the team. I loved the players mother and father for doing it. We had two exceptional strikers and their son. He was a good striker but not as good as the other two. We divided the playing time equally among the three strikers. Our parents who did not pay to play complained about giving their son all that playing time. They did not complain quietly they did it out loud. In front of the boys parents. The same parents that picked up the cost of whole tournaments so the club did not have to. Finally they had enough and took their kid and their money to another club here in Brooklyn. That was the first year Gjoa ever played in the Dallas Cup. Then our parents complained that our tournament were cut in half the next season.
We are proud in the fact that our sons club supported many less affluent players, including many African refugees. If a club does not sponsor poor talented youth, they are not an elite organization...they are an elitist organization.
Sorry, I call BS. If we have a pay to play system, then it is what it is. If your kid is great, then he should be given the same "advantages" as any other player. Seems like another squeeze on the middle class that can pinch and save, but aren't considered "poor". In this regard, the academy system has failed. If a club wants to maintain their "academy status", they should have to figure out a way to make it free. Otherwise, they are benefiting from the status, but not solving the problem of the US being a mid level country.
The problem is even if you pay their fees, transportation is often a major issue. My son played in Newark, and several players were not only on full scholarship (and the "suburban" players felt they were charged more than Newark players not on scholarship), but they always needed transportation to games. To the point that the coach had to drive a van with four or five or more players to tournaments. Which was quite a burden. The only way to truly bring low-income players into the mix is to have residential programs, where they can attend HS part of the day and have full transportation whenever they need it. We have two free USDAP clubs in our area, and four that are costly. Two are over $8,000 per year. But again, even if the club was like "wow, we have to have that player even if he gets a full scholarship", they'd have to get him to the practices and games. A top-notch player doesn't help if he can't get there. These are cases where sometimes the player ends up moving in with the coach or another player's family. Hence, there are child protection rules in the USDAP regulations that say a coach can't be alone with player in a car, etc. Too much potential for trouble.
One of the things a coach needs to be a coach is a Van or a wife who drives another car. We would advertise for players everywhere. We advertised in ethnic neighborhood and in ethnic newspapers. Once they called us we would pick them up where they lived until they could get to our field by themselves. Even HS ethnic players are a captive group they go to school there. They still had to be picked up to get them to our practice field. Until they knew how to find the field. Then we leave for away games. Then drop them off at our practice field or to their homes if the drivers had the time. When I first started coaching travel youth teams the players were all ethnic. I would see their parents maybe three times a season. They worked most of the time. Again we only charged a token amount to play.
Oddly enough, the transportation problem occurs at all ages and with all income levels (but to me there is no excuse really). My son played on a U19 team this past year, mostly suburban kids, and we'd often get an email "Johnny and Bobby need a ride to the tournament". At one point, we got an email Thursday for a tournament five hours away we needed to leave for on Friday, to not only drive the kid but let him stay in our hotel room! As you said, it is part of the territory. They have rec games from age 3 up to high school age, and the park is smack in the middle of an immigrant and first-generation part of town. The field is in very good shape and rarely if ever vandalized, never seriously vandalized. Boys and Girls Clubs do a lot with rec sports too. But the potential for abuse is there when transportation is an issue. Lots of coach abuse stories in our local papers, be it school or travel or rec sports. And what do you do when the kid gets better and now is on a higher-level team an hour away? Even if it is free like RBNY, you see stories where the kid has to move in with a relative or a coach.
That can be illegal. There have been teams that have found players who live in NJ. The team is in NY then these kids are playing in the NY state cup. That is illegal. Happens in HS too they have to live in the area where the school is but these kids live out of the area. The coach puts their address in the school district to get them. Then you read the NY times say they and their coach is the best in the state a freaking joke.
I am not familiar with the "no out-of-state players" for teams that play in USYS-affiliated state cups. In fact, I know that in NJ teams who have won more than once had out of state players. I don't see how ENY or WNY could have different rules.
this seems to vary greatly in georgia, some clubs have chosen to run their club like a business. they offer scholarships etc, but after that, if you don't pay your dues, your card gets pulled. other clubs are the opposite, especially those with a more hispanic presence. many teams support 1-2 players on each team, even at u9 agesgroups. where 1 to 2 players are litterally not paying for anything except for travel if the parents choose to travel to an out of town tournament. as long as its not taken advantage of, the parents seem to understand they are helping out. http://www.gasoccerforum.com/
Call up the state cup in NJ and ask them if you can have players that live in NY play in the NJ state cup and see what they tell you.
This is an interesting topic. While we are far from poor, the fees for my daughter's club are pretty high. And there always seems to be more fees that come up from time to time. On top of that, we live about an hour away (luckily one of her old teammates from our home town started playing with this team). It's a drain, and so I started to referee to essentially pay for her and my son to play (son plays for the small local club in our town). My daughter's coach wanted her to try out for ODP. I looked into it, and when I saw the fees, all I could think of was, "So ODP doesn't really want the best players. They want the best players who have money." My daughter didn't try out.
[QUOTE="King Creole, post: 31035117, member: 246158" My daughter's coach wanted her to try out for ODP. I looked into it, and when I saw the fees, all I could think of was, "So ODP doesn't really want the best players. They want the best players who have money." My daughter didn't try out.[/QUOTE] In New York the tryouts are held in Long Island, and sometimes in NYC. If you make the team the practices are held in Long Island. Kids from NYC are welcome to try out. But they don't take NYC kids because they do not think they will attend practices in Long Island.
@nicklaino, players don't have to reside in the state of the state cup competition that they are playing in. The team must be registered to a club within the state, but the players can be out of state. I have refereed several state cup matches with teams from Rockland & Westchester counties and they will have a handful of players from northern NJ. The rosters are approved by ENY. Here is the ENY state cup eligibility rules: http://www.enysoccer.com/assets/945/15/2015 CUP BOOKLET FINAL Aug.pdf
ENY will have two pools of players. Westchester and north will practice alternating weeks somewhere downstate in the Rockland/Orange/Dutchess area and in the Albany area.
In New York the tryouts are held in Long Island, and sometimes in NYC. If you make the team the practices are held in Long Island. Kids from NYC are welcome to try out. But they don't take NYC kids because they do not think they will attend practices in Long Island.[/QUOTE] That is not the case (at least for the past few years). The tryouts are mostly held in NYC (2 Queens locations, 1 Manhattan and 1 Staten Island) and the practices (at least the younger classes) were held in Flushing Meadows.