Lionel Messi vs Cristiano Ronaldo; better UEFA Champions league career?

This one was better. Look at the elevation

 

It's not just about it being a team sport. My hypothesis is that Messi and Ronaldo, like most legends throughout history, tend to win, as the protagonist, only when they also had the best performing team in the tournament. And yes, I recognize, that they themselves are big reasons why their teams were the best in the tournament.

 

The Messi v. Ronaldo debate is the first and only one in history AFAIK where people are resorting to stats to make arguments. And I say that as a Messi fan and Messi has better stats than Ronaldo. It's not just about stats in soccer... I think modern players not just fans are more inclined to be stats oriented because of the media frenzy and constant twitter barrages of new obscure records broken.

Another problem is that a lot of people are so biased and use inconsistent criteria. They'll use stats when it suits them but completely ignore the same stats in another comparison when it doesn't. For instance, the only time Ronaldo fans ever mention assists is in the CL because he has more than Messi.

 

https://www.legit.ng/amp/1227626-ch...ce-man-city-leaked-quarterfinal-fixtures.html

Here we go again with the fixed QF draws

 

It became this in the end:

The top 4 @EuroClubIndex teams have all avoided each other in the #ChampionsLeague draw for the quarter-finals:

Ajax v JUVENTUS
LIVERPOOL v Porto
Tottenham Hotspur v MANCHESTER CITY
Manchester United v BARCELONA

And a single all-English tie, the most likely scenario.

— Simon Gleave (@SimonGleave) March 15, 2019

Yup. Honestly called it before the draw. Classic UEFA

— Michael Cox (@Zonal_Marking) March 15, 2019

 

“Cristiano, when he jumps to head the ball, seems like Pele, he jumps and seems hangs in the air more than others; it is impressive,”
Paolo Montero
https://www.juvefc.com/montero-cristiano-ronaldo-is-number-one/

I see the goals of Cristiano and I can recognize those of Pelé. The Brazilian use to always jump higher than his opponents
He was running quicker than his opponents
He had amazing technical and dribbling skills. All these factors make me think that the Portuguese star is so similar to the Brazilian.”
Alessandro Costacurta
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....o-sempre-piu-simile-a-pele-quello-che-fa/amp/

 

Some taller guys are hopeless
(Ibrahimovic springs to mind at 6ft 7 is hopeless in the air compared to a “midget” like Pele)

It’s about the technique and the timing of the jump

 

Yeah I can agree with that
I don’t think CR has a technical advantage when it comes to heading compared to Pelé who also had an incredible leap

A natural advantage yes(height) nothing Pele could do about that ( it wasn’t in his genes I guess)

 

Obscure records

 

I think you're mixing up quality and decisiveness/difficulty. It's not wise to compare a UCL SF against Bayern or Real Madrid with Group stage matches against those minnows. Messi have his fair share of great performances as well. However those I highlighted is surely up there with Messi's best performances

 

4:04

 

Messi played 34 knockout stage ties in the CL.

He scored in 20 of 34 ties (58%) and his team went 20-0 (100% win rate).

He failed to score in 14 of 34 ties (42%) and his team went 5-9 (36% win rate).

Ronaldo played 43 knockout stage ties in the CL.

He scored in 30 of 43 ties (68%) and his team went 25-5 (83% win rate).

He failed to score in 13 of 43 ties (32%) and his team went 9-4 (69% win rate).

* This data includes two-legged ties (R16, QF, SF) and one-legged ties (F).

From this information, we can conclude that Ronaldo has indeed been better than Messi in terms of scoring in the knockout stage but we can also conclude that Messi's scoring has had much more impact on the outcome of the tie than Ronaldo's scoring.

 

Well yes, but for the data to be complete, we must look at what happened in the game they didn't score. For example, in the 13 games Ronaldo didn't score, he could've been decisive in other ways.

The opposite is also true, how many goals from the games that Messi and Ronaldo scored were their goals actually important and not just stat padding?

 

Yes indeed
Just of the top off my head Real Madrid beat Atletico Madrid 1-0 on aggregate in the 2015 CL quarter final via a Cristiano Ronaldo assist

There are other examples(of tight KO games where CR made the difference without scoring)

 

I tabulated this data in terms of ties, not matches. It seems more relevant because at the end of the day, the winner of the tie moves on (if two-legged) not necessarily the winner of the match.

Your comments are fair and absolutely there is more to analyze but that data does show the correlation between scoring and winning. For Messi, the correlation is very strong. For Ronaldo, not so much. So while Ronaldo scored in a higher % of ties (equals more clutch?) his scoring didn't seem to have the same impact. His teams had a similar winning % whether he did or didn't score.

 

Cristiano Ronaldo *literally* scores every type of goal...

Right foot ✅
Left foot ✅
Poacher ✅
Header ✅
Screamer ✅
Overhead-kick ✅

His Champions League quarter-final collection is something special 🤩 pic.twitter.com/aRRBx6cZj3

— Football on TNT Sports (@footballontnt) April 8, 2019

 

Nobody comes close to Cristiano Ronaldo. pic.twitter.com/4hpNiPiBCN

— ESPN FC (@ESPNFC) April 10, 2019

 

One scored (an official contribution)
"pre assisted" his own goal if that makes any difference lol

The other did nothing in a QF for the 7th game in a row
Their being "quiet" Is not the same AT ALL

 

This is one of your "better" posts no doubt
I agree with this 100%
especially re CR being at his best as a team player in 06/07 and 09/10
Sadly most fans are totally clueless about this period

he combined the team play of a luis figo or franck ribery(22 assists in 06/07 as a left midfielder)
and the direct dribbling of luis ronaldo(specifically in 96/97)



There is a huge gulf in difference between messi 08/09 the "tazmanian devil" dribbler and his 14/15 version(the most complete attacking player that ever lived)

In 08/09 he was Decisive as a scorer(with a good assist tally for a WF it must be said)
But still way behind 09/10(47 goals in a single season in the "baggio role")
And way way behind 14/15 in playmaking(key passes,long balls etc)


Im leaning towards xavi(his case) as best player of the 08/09 barcelona treble winning team(Only marginally
Though)
30 assists for a CM is nothing to scoff at and he was the MOTM in the CL final(most assists in the competition too)



The meteoric rise of messi isnt discussed enough
Every season during 09-12 was an improvement on the last and he was legendary for the duration of this period(as a 21-25 year old player)

The "endless potential" of luis ronaldo is grossly exaggerated i have to say
What happened to him in 98/99 and the huge drop off in open play goals(he had an even better team here with baggio and vieri compared to 97/98 where had to carry the attack by himself)

R9 was a very wasteful shooter in his youth
You will notice this if you objectively
look at his inter period where 99% of
His solo runs lead to no goal
Barcelonas tactics in 96/97 suited him better and the quality of the league was completely inferior compared to italy

I just dont think he couldve become much better than he already was at 21 years old.
One thing that genuinely confuses me is why he couldnt develop on the good playmaking skills he showed in 97/98
At madrid he was just totally limited in his role like a sheva with more acceleration and ball skills
Hardly any contrubution to build up,low assist tally etc
As a finisher though he had improved demonstrably

 

Italian football is different from Spanish football, even today I believe it is harder to score goals on constant basis in Italian football than in Spanish football, we will leave out the 90s. Ronaldo should never have left Barcelona to start with, the role he had was perfect for him, certainly yes playing for Barcelona, free of injuries, he would have reached a very high level between his 24-29 years, if he at his 20 years already walked with the average of 1 goal per game, he would probably reach 1.2, 1.3.... Ronaldo was no longer the same of 1996-1997 or 1997-1998 (here in terms of what he could be in a adequate system) with Madrid, even tho he was still an efficient shooter.
Ronaldo Nazario was not only a goalscorer, his dribbling and athleticism combination is probably the best ever (and no Cristiano Ronaldo can't touch it)...

Messi reached his full level in 2010-2011 (he was pretty close in 2009-2010 already) and Cristiano in 2007-2008; Messi 2008-2009 was a explosive guy, but the actual Messi is probably way more efficient.

PD: The impression I have watching the videos is that R9 was somewhat out of shape in 1998-1999, he seemed slower compared to 1997-1998 and especially 1996-1997. He wasn't a poacher btw, he was a complete attacker.

 

They just broke his nose. Give him a break. Barca did nothing with 72% possesion while United parked the bus.