Lionel Messi - La pulga atómica - part II (r)

No worries, Messi is at 88, will pass that in a couple games(If that).

 

Do they list all of Zico's goals with Flamengo? I find it hard to believe he scored over 80 goals with the club alone in one year.

 

Honestly it is embarrassing but unsurprising. Why raise this record now ? No doubt many of those goals as with the great Pele will have been in exhibition games.

It's almost as embarrassing as the awful mess they are making in terms of policing and getting ready for 2014. Must be hard to stomach seeing di Stefano, Diego, Leo amongst the top three players of all time in many peoples eyes.

 

Now Flamengo can shut their mouths. Will wait for them to dig up something so they can discredit Lio.

 

A reminder of young Leo already terrorizing defences in that magnificent triumph in Holland in 2005 beating along the way Germany, Spain and Brazil.



Hope the new pibes take this as an inspiration this January.

 

Listen Messi is truly a great player but all this idolatry for what he scored for Barca against teams infinetly inferior is ridiculous.La Liga is over by Christmas the whole thing is a joke even the tecnico of the team in second place calls it boring.
European futbol is every day worse and less competitive.Sure there are seven or eight superteams but almost all the rest are extremely poor.
Corinthians showed yesterday that even some of these have got weak.Mata and Lampard were just bullied by Ralf and Paolinho.Messis real test comes in 2014,I hope he passes it but scoring 90 goals v Rayo,Osasuna and Getafe ????

 

He has scored against the best teams throughout Europe. He is doing it now for the seleccion as I predicted when a proper coach came to the helm.

European football is not worse or less competitive. There are more than the several superteams you mention. It is where all the best players end up because that is where the money is now.

Much as I dislike Chelsea this whole affair was to them an inconvenience in the season. They even didn't want to go to Japan. Corinthians themselves were hardly stellar in what were very poor matches. And the recent occasions where Brazilian clubs have suceeded they have done it by skulking with 10 men behind the ball and hitting on the counter.

Hardly the myth of joga bonito. Only Boca have come out and played and Estudiantes to an extent because they had the balls and nearly managed to beat Barcelona.

I'd say wherever Messi was playing he'd score a hatful of goals. He terrorizes defences all over the planet. And even if they double or triple mark him then used properly it is beneficial for his team mates to utilize the extra space afforded to them.

It is great that the focus and adulation is on him and Argentine football because it irks others no end.

 

Fisrt all all I am delighted Messi is Argentine.I have no doubt he is the best player in the World.
But la liga is a sad joke.Its over and Christmas is a week away.Serie A is every day worse with only one decent team.PSG is going to totally dominate France.The only proper league in Europe not destroyed by money laundering is the Bundesliga.The English league is a joke three contenders one of whom yesterday was clearly outplayed by Corinthians one of ten teams capable of winning the Brasileiro.I hope you guys are right and Messi takes the Mundial by storm but for me thats the test of greatness not some distorted competition.

 

Looks like 60 Minutes on Showtime is going to do a special on Lio. Jan9th.

 

Great he won it I just hope he wins in 2014 when it matters.

 

If he isn't there in 2014 God forbid through injury then the chances of winning it are going to dwindle enormously. I think he has been there in 2012. Your comment is slightly churlish.

He was there at the Copa too despite a clown in charge only for another buffoon in Tevez to miss the penalty after deciding he was the man......

 

Does anyone know how many of Messi's 91 goals last year were assisted by Xavi or Iniesta? I'm curious. I'm tired of all the jealous losers who keep repeating over & over that that is the only reason why Messi scores so many goals...

 

There is a stat guy who knows all this stuff, I believe his username is Bada bing. He is in Barcelona forums time to time. But here you go.

https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/ballon-dor-2012-thread.1939677/page-147

BTW, who is still using that debate about Xavi and Iniesta. That thing is old and is tiresome, nobody believes it. And Messi has had seasons where he had more assists than Xavi and Iniesta.

 

Very difficult, mainly about Messi. For most people, it is obvious that Pelé is much better than Maradona and Di Stefano is not mentioned. But see Messi being compared to Pele is hard to accept for many people and journalists.Last year, there was a strong debate between two journalists on television about it.

And Zico's goals are true, but not all were made in official games.

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Lucas here in England Pele is viewed as an idol by many. The epitome of sportsmanship as exemplified by his embrace with Bobby Moore in 1970.

His nemesis Maradona is viewed by many as a drug taking cheat despite the fact the drugs actually harmed him as a player and cheating ? How many players cheat all the time ? It was the officials job to spot the handball and they did not.

Klinsmann dived in 1990, Grosso in 2006 , Puskas a perfectly good goal disallowed in 1954 and so many other instances I could quote.

For me it is not so obvious Pele is greater than Maradona. A great player yes but Maradona is equally so. There have been plenty of great Argentine players from Moreno to Messi and the legend that Pele has built up around himself seems to ignore the fact that he had plenty of great players around him as well like Djalma Santos and Garrincha to name but two.

I dislike Pele as a person. He lacks humility and is a FIFA mouthpiece and says what others like to hear. Not to mention he is a bitter man. Not only does he seem to like to denigrate Argentine players like Maradona and Messi the former who is already more than his equal , the latter who is approaching that status but he also likes to take shots at Brazilian players as well.

It is no wonder the real Ronaldo, Dinho and Romario have few kind words for him as do plenty of his former team mates who have been left behind in the wake of Pele's PR machine.

He still for example tries to use this fatuous argument of having scored 1200 goals as a claim of greatness. Most of which are not in official games. And having won 3 World Cups.

1958. If the Argentine FA had not decided to ban the players who moved to Europe ie Sivori who knows what might have happened ? Argentina beat Brazil in the Copa 1957 with ease and much of that Brazilian side were sucessful a year later. Had Wales had the services of John Charles who knows as well ?

1962 he played just the one game and 1970 he had a magical side around him. But no it is only down to Pele. The man even talks in the third person about himself. His ego knows no bounds.

I have several Brazilian friends here in London (and condolences to all after that tragedy in Santa Maria) and even they are sometimes embarrassed by Pele's pronouncements.

Thanks for clarifying that about Zico as well Lucas. This deep rivalry between the two countries often ends up in a slanging match. Suffice it to say both countries have produced some of the best players to grace a football pitch and both are probably the two greatest footballing countries on the planet (although Brazil seem to be in a slump and need to rectify youth coaching).

Being an Argentine fan doesn't mean one cannot appreciate another teams players but unfortunately it seem's certain members of Pele's fan club cannot seem to accept that other players like di Stefano and Maradona were his equal if not better.

Certainly many of the top European players including Bobby Charlton who played against the Blonde Arrow and Pele rated di Stefano the more complete player who could if he wanted play in defence, in midfield and upfront.

Messi still has a long way to go in my own opinion. He is there in the top ten players but there are still several Argentines led by Diego and Alfredo and others like Pedernera ahead of him.

Who knows if WW2 had not broken out or if the AFA weren't as useless as they still are Argentina would certainly have more than two World Cups to her name.

 

The arguments of the 1,200 goals and 3WC are always used by many leading journalists, not only by Pelé. In 1986, shortly after WC86 where Maradona shined, the editor of Revista Placar wrote an article in the magazine saying ''Maradona is the new King of Football, but to be Pele, he must make 1200 goals, winning 3WC ...'' and are the same arguments to criticize Messi in comparison with Pele

The opinion of many is that Maradona is overestimated by the argentines only to rivalyzes with Pele, as was Sivori, Di Stefano and Messi now, as the likes of Pele own say.

Maradona and Messi (especially) aren't hated in Brazil, but the problem is when there are comparisons with Pele. Pele likes to refer to himself as the greatest player in history. He is a man who likes to be on television, in the media and this is reason so talks nonsense, like Maradona also speaks.

In the discussion on television in which I referred (Pele x Maradona x Messi), was a british journalist Tim Vickery and a brazilian journalist. When subject began, the brazilian began to exalt with things like ''What did Messi with 17 years?'', ''Pele won 3WC''. Vickery started saying ''If you want to talk about WC, Pelé didn't play a WC in same level than Maradona in 1986.'' Anyway, the discussion continued and the brazilian was angry.

Of course not all brazilians who think this way. I don't think other player in history, except Maradona, made ​​so much magic on the pitch as Messi. I root for Brazil NT ('m not fanatic), but I see every Argentina matches.

The fact is that Messi is making a nearly perfect career and is young. That bothers many people.

 

Hey, soccer fan from England here..

Just wondering what you guys think of Linol Messi?

He does very well against sub standard Spanish teams but he never seem's to perform in European competition or on the international stage? Have you guy's lost patience with him? Particularly after the six 0ne against Bolivia.

Do you guys think he has a future, or is he just over hyped like 99% of South American players?