Lev Yashin's Ballon D'or

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by schwuppe, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Oh okay. That voids my previous observations with Pfaff and Preud'homme as examples (because I had a look at them again) I guess.

    I have to say that when watching the video material, against opponents that matter, I can see the idea Van Beveren is by some seen as the "most talented" and "most stylish" of his country.

    (funny trivia: both Van Beveren and his 'successor' Van Breukelen are named after villages)
     
  2. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Part of the problem with assessing goalkeepers is that a lot of their good work is almost unseen.

    De Gea for instance is positionally superb. As a result I think he makes less spectacular saves than some others because he is already in the right place at the right time. Someone like Keylor Navas makes a lot of incredible saves (and is an excellent goalkeeper) but I wonder if part of that is because his positioning is not as good as some of the others.
     
  3. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    #79 peterhrt, Feb 13, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    As mentioned in the article above, Gordon Banks is still widely regarded as the best goalkeeper in an England shirt. Like Moore and Bobby Charlton he was at his best in international football. The adage Banks of England (after the Bank of England) was meant to represent an utterly reliable last line of defence.

    In English club football Banks was not as pre-eminent in his time as Shilton or Schmeichel were in theirs. Despite Shilton's 66 clean sheets in 125 internationals, it took a long time for his error against Poland at Wembley in 1973 to be forgotten, contributing as it did towards England's failure to qualify for the 1974 World Cup. Rival Ray Clemence played 61 times in his place.

    Banks did not appear to fill the goal like Yashin or Neuer. Nor was he a showman like Frank Swift, Zamora or Chilavert. He was just very good and made very few mistakes.

    One of his idiosyncracies was to stop shots by patting the ball down with both hands and collecting it on the bounce.
     
    schwuppe, comme and PuckVanHeel repped this.
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    :thumbsup:

    Thank you for your answer and also thanks for the comparison with Shilton, and why despite his career numbers he isn't (seen as) top for the national side. Makes sense.

    Shilton his 66 clean sheets was for a time the overall record. As of 2017, only two European goalkeepers have surpassed this. Incidentally, those two share the clean sheets record for the european championships, while Shilton has it for the World Cup (together with Barthez).

    'Image' can be a tricky thing. Some modern keepers have a completely faultless image, despite the bare registration telling otherwise. Others get hanged by one or two defining gaffes.
     
  5. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    It may be of interest to see how goalkeepers rank when combining the various polls together, including the Dutch and Belgian ones posted recently. In a not especially scientific exercise, Yashin is unsurprisingly the clear leader among twentieth century keepers. He is followed by Zoff then Banks. These three are well clear of the rest. Next come Zamora and Schmeichel, and then Maier. Nobody else is consistently ranked.

    Turning to the twenty-first century, a count of ESM votes between 1995/96 and 2017/18 sees Buffon (155) with a comfortable lead, followed by Cech (126), Casillas and Neuer (both 106), Courtois (97), van der Sar (87), Kahn (76), De Gea (70), Oblak (58) and Julio Cesar (51). Schmeichel picks up only 28 votes, although his first four seasons in England are not covered by ESM.

    In some of the more recent polls, such as Voetbal International and FourFourTwo, Buffon appears ahead of Zoff and Banks, but not Yashin. VI places Neuer slightly ahead of Buffon but FourFourTwo leaves the German out of its Top 100. IBT in 2014 rated Buffon second behind Zoff, the only two keepers in their Top 50. In the Ballon d'Or down the years, only Yashin, Kahn, Buffon and Zoff, in that order, have featured significantly.

    An overall poll ranking to date might therefore give a Top 4 of: 1) Yashin, 2) Buffon, 3) Zoff, 4) Banks. Followed possibly by Zamora and Schmeichel.

    One issue is that sources are skewed towards Europe. The only Latin American keeper mentioned so far is Julio Cesar, tenth in ESM votes. And American sources cannot really be accused of favouring their own. In 1999 Placar included nine goalkeepers in its Top 100, the correct one-in-eleven proportion you might say. Six were European, plus Carrizo (56th with four European goalies ahead of him), Carbajal (84th) and Chilavert (96th). Both IBT's keepers were Italian. The Bleacher Report in 2011 included five glovemen in their Top 100, with only Taffarel from outside Europe. Chilavert is the only goalkeeper to be voted South American Footballer of the Year.

    In IFFHS's elections of 1999, goalkeepers were chosen separately and there were six Latin Americans in the Top 20: Chilavert 6, Carrizo 10, Gilmar 11, Mazurkiewicz 12, Fillol 14 and Carbajal 15. The European polls around this time featured few goalkeeping representatives from the other side of the Atlantic. Venerdi picked Fillol, Raf Willems (Netherlands) Mazurkiewicz and World Soccer Chilavert (55th).A decade later in 2009, @comme had four Latin Americans among his Top 20 goalkeepers: Carrizo 11, Mazurkiewicz 15, Fillol 17 and Gilmar 18.

    It is possible that one outstanding keeper can take attention and votes away from his fellow-countrymen. That may have happened in USSR and Britain, but does not appear to be the case in Italy. There is also the possibility that three or four high-class goalkeepers of similar standard from a single country could split that country's vote. Germany, Belgium, Mexico and former Czechoslovakia may have fallen into that category.
     
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  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Good post. Keep in mind though that the ESM voter pool got bigger over time. This might have hurt Schmeichel, for example, as well as variable focus on continental matches.
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    AD78 and peterhrt repped this.

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