Law School

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by Ombak, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. needs

    needs Member

    Jan 16, 2003
    Brooklyn
    You're clearly sane for switching from a program with 1) No set finishing point 2) Difficult employment prospects, and 3) A starting pay scale ranging from $30k to $60k after at least 5 years (yeah, right); to a program with 1) three year time span, 2) a variety of employment options, 3) a starting pay scale of $45k to $120k.

    Crazy is spending 9 years getting a JD/PhD and then adjuncting at a secondary state school for three grand a class.

    If you go back and get the PhD, you've clearly been driven insane by other lawyers.

    :D
     
  2. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    Thanks for the replies, guys. Dumb question coming your way - what exactly is Juris Doctor and Graduate Legal Studies. Most Law schools seem to offer - JD, LL.M, and Graduate legal studies.
     
  3. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa

    absolutely a major step down from college in the fun department. of course being 26 or whatever compared to 19 plays a part in that.
     
  4. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    JD is the degree in law that. LLM would be a Master of Law (one year of specialized study that is open to someone with a JD). Graduate Legal studies, not sure.
     
  5. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Time for a thread update but I was trying to wait for a couple of reasons.

    As I said on April 6 (post on page 6), I got into St. John's University with a nice scholarship.

    However I did not get into GWU as I expected to.

    The frustrating thing is that I called them on Friday, April 15th for an update. I was having lunch with a co-worker that day who wrote me a letter of recommendation and wanted to give her the good news (I was so sure it'd be positive). When I called and asked I found out a decision had been made. I asked them for it over the phone and they told me it was negative. This was over two weeks ago and I have yet to get a letter!

    But this is not the end of the story. One of my letters of recommendation was never received by the LSAC. Now, as flattering as the others were, I'm sure this one would be the most important as it came from my major advisor at my undergrad program and she was always full of praise for me.

    So, as a result, I am sending a letter of reconsideration to GWU hoping it will either get me on the waiting list or into the part-time program. EDIT: My letter of recommendation was resent and received. However, I made my initial deposit on St. John's so as not to lose my spot and am seriously considering doing one year there then trying to transfer since I still want to go to GWU for their IP courses and their IP program in Munich.

    Of course, that might not be such a bad idea anyways, since I have a nice scholarship if I go to St. John's which would make the first-year considerably cheaper.
     
  6. Rei de Boston

    Rei de Boston New Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    Well I just found this thread and it was an interesting read. I am finishing my first year of law school and I don't think it has been that hard at all. Most horror stories come from hearing aobut the Socratic method of teaching. Basically it is the teacher grilling a student in the attempt to get them to think. It really isn't that bad or scarry because everyone goes through it.

    Law school does seem to be a lot like high school, in most of the bad ways.

    As for where you go to school it does matter, but it is a matter of degree based on where you want to live and if you want to be in a real big firm. The reality of the situation is that like any degree the longer you practice the less school matters.
     
  7. gantelo

    gantelo New Member

    Aug 9, 2003
    Istanbul
    I am sorry to break in here but can any one of you guys give me some tips about going to a law school in the States. Its my third year in law school in Turkey in which the law schools are 4 years and I am planning to have a masters degree in business law.Do you think is it worth it to go all the way over there. I mean the only reason I want to go to a college in the US is because I believe it would help me a lot to become fluent in law English which is a must-have nowadays in Turkey.
    I have talked with this friend of mine who attends Columbia Law school and she claims its not that hard being a Turkish student and study law in English. what do you think?
     
  8. antifan

    antifan Member+

    Aug 14, 2004
    The Scottie
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Many US law schools offer a one year LLM (master of law) program. At the school i went to most of these students were graduates of foreign law schools. I think the program was either International Law or Comparative Law. If you want to attend Law school in the States that is the way to go. I think it would be worth it just for the experience of living abroad.
     
  9. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    antifan offered good advice. I would look into some LLM programs here in the states. Many law schools offer such programs.
     
  10. gantelo

    gantelo New Member

    Aug 9, 2003
    Istanbul
    Thanks. If I can get into a good program I'll be coming there.
     
  11. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    I was thinking of this thread today when we got a firm wide email asking for Turkish tax advice.
    And yes, I am serious.
     
  12. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa
    what i think is that columbia is in a very bad neighborhood
     
  13. AmoebaCulture

    AmoebaCulture Member+

    Nov 25, 2001
    Andromeda
    Isn't Columbia located near Harlem?

    p.s. - Patrickm, that would be "Pyongyang" not "Pyonyang" ;)
     
  14. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    No its not. Columbia is in Morningside Heights, which is fine. Its not prime location like NYU, but its hardly a "bad" neighborhood.
    Yes, Harlem is fairly close, but Harlem isn't that bad at all. Many parts of it are getting very gentrified. The South Bronx its not.
     
  15. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    To resurrect this thread, I'm going to share what I remember from my visit to Lewis and Clark College in early May to find out why they turned me down. Here was some of their advice on how to improve my prospects:

    Apply early. This fall -- like, right now -- is a good time to get your application in, particularly if a school has a rolling admissions process. Applications closer to the deadline -- like mine -- have less of a chance as incoming spots have already been assigned to folks who applied earlier.

    Bump up your LSAT score. Mine was an OK 159, but it wasn't good enough to offset some really horrible undergraduate grades. A lot of schools average out LSAT scores, but some schools, like Oregon, will take the higher LSAT score.

    That was the low-hanging fruit that the admissions office suggested that I pick off. Some other advice:

    Highlight relevant experience on the resume. They said my resume would've been stronger if I'd put working for a law firm front and center instead of burying it in my resume.

    Convince them you're a good student. If your grades were bad before, like mine, some college work elsewhere with some good grades would go a long ways toward convincing law schools that you can handle the load.

    Take a lesser load. This was clearly a distant fifth place in suggestions, but the folks at LC suggested that I apply for night school, which would mean one less class per semester and thus an easier transition for me into law school.

    So, now that this thread is bumped, is anyone else taking aim at law school? For those of you that just joined, how are you doing?
     
  16. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    As for me, I'm not as high on the option of law school as I once was. I don't know if it's the rejection letters, or changing priorities, or finding out more about my career options, or not liking the idea of being way in debt, or what, but I'm not at all motivated to try and apply for fall 2006 admission.

    I can't quite put my finger on why, though. This troubles me. All I know is that I'm scheduled to take the LSAT on Saturday and I'm going to cancel it.
     
  17. eneste

    eneste Member

    Mar 24, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I took the LSAT this Saturday. I thought it was okay. I don't think that I'll do as well as my practice average but hopefully it will be enough to get into some good schools. Personally, I'm really looking forward to law school. I graduated from undergrad four years ago and I've been working since. I can't believe that I miss school so much. Did you end up taking the test this Saturday anyway?
     
  18. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I'm currently going through the application process, but I'm even more nervous that most about the whole thing - basically, because my GPA is so bad. I mean, below a 3.0 bad.

    The question is whether or not I have enough other things going for me to offset my GPA. I broke 165 on my diagnostic LSAT (I'm taking them in February), so hopefully that will help. Additionally, I'm a junior paralegal at a large firm in Chicago and will be able to get pretty strong recommendations from my old professors. I also did some extracurricular stuff in college that might make my application stand out, such as acting and debate. (Yeah, I know, most people applying to law school probably debated in college, but I was actually good at it. My trophy cabinet looks like Real Madrid's.)

    My GPA, while low, is also from the University of Chicago, which is notorious for being tough on its undergrads.

    As it stands now, I've pretty much committed to trying to live and practice in the Bay Area. My ideal school is Berkeley, but it's quite frankly out of my league. The plan for now is to apply early to Hastings, and failing that, UC-Davis. The worst case scenario is that I go to USF, bust my ass for a year, and try to transfer to either Berkeley or Hastings.
     
  19. eneste

    eneste Member

    Mar 24, 2000
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I'm basically in the same boat you are minorthreat. I have a 3.0 from Carnegie Mellon. I averaged 166 on my practice tests and had one pretty high score but there is no way I did that well on the actual thing, I'd guess low 160's. Right now, I'm aiming for a George Washington or Boston College but those are a reach.

    Are you taking the LSAT in February? If I were you I would take it in December. February is pretty late to be applying.
     
  20. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very true. If you are applying to try to gain admission for Fall 2006.....you should have your application in before Christmas. That will maximize your chances.
     
  21. minorthreat

    minorthreat Member

    Jan 1, 2001
    NYC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I'm not. I'm applying for '07. I just figured it'd be better to take them sooner than later.
     
  22. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    So you didn't win anything your sophomore and junior year?
     
  23. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003
    Its a good thing you've locked into a location where you want to work because with those scores regional placement schools are your only options. Depending on where you land you will also have to do well in school to be Biglaw competitive. Additionally what on your resume shows you want to work in the Bay Area other than concievably going to school there? If more isn't there you still might struggle to convince firms that you are serious about the area.

    Heck I'm median at a T10 and I struggle to convince recruiters from cities I've never lived in that I am actually interested.

    Remember while at this point its hard to focus beyoing getting into a school, the purpose of going is to land a viable job offer that can service the debt burden you will acquire.
     
  24. HeadHunter

    HeadHunter Member

    May 28, 2003
    Given this post I'm going to assume that you didn't work for Coudert- given your past coments about work background I had wondered. :)
     
  25. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    No, I don't work for Coudert. ;)
     

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