Landon & Timmy - Everton/Man Citeh 1/16/10 [R]

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by Toolhead, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the main point, it is about the type of training. My exercise physiology class went into a lot of detail about this.

    Different exercises affect different types of muscles. More aerobic/endurance training is going to more strongly affect slow-twitch muscle fiber. Anaerobic/resistance training affects the fast-twitch muscle fibers more. Around the world, soccer academies are the norm, so the kids are going to be going through more endurance training for most of their lives.

    In America, football, basketball, and baseball require short bursts, so resistance training is much more common. That is why having Americans in soccer training for all of their lives isn't going to produce the typical American athletes that play basketball and baseball. The key would be sway athletes who have trained for the other sports to choose soccer and not the other sports.

    There are always going to be exceptions like Thierry Henry. However, because of the type of training they go through, soccer players throughout the world will rarely be able to match the speed of the fastest players in the NFL.
     
  2. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Part of this is also due to the fact that the NFL is much more athletically based than soccer leagues is. What I mean by that is that if you find someone who runs a 4.5 at age 17 you can then recruit him to be your wide receiver and he'd be able to develop the skill set to potentially be a pro.

    The same situation is 10 times harder in soccer although its been done.
     
  3. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    NV
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, up until about age 15 - 16, aerobic fitness is the primary activity for soccer players. At age 16, anearobic and strength conditioning becomes critical to soccer players. Soccer is played with a lot of jogging interspersed with moments of high intensity. The players who don't adequately train for these moments of anaerobic bursts will be the ones who lose their 1 v 1 duels against their opponents. Sprinting, pyramid/intervals, plyometrics, lifting weights are all essential components to soccer fitness. Jogging mile after mile after mile as a means of developing soccer fitness is no longer the way it is done.
     
  4. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, as Marko said, that was LD, he used his quickness to get to the ball before the defender, handled it well and touched it slightly to his left to elude him, then Pienaar took it from him and sent the ball directly in to Saha.
     
  5. fingersave

    fingersave Member

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I may be the only person in this cyberspace with this opinion, but I didnt like the play of Bily. He's over-eager with the ball, makes rash decisions, and flubs up too many scoring opportunities. He's pretty much the anti-Donovan.

    He'll hit a volley close to target, but he'll rarely hit it on target. He'll run at two defenders and neglect a simple square ball that could lead to a one-touch goal for a teammate.

    Feliani on the other hand...that dude is a monster. There's everything to love about his game.
     
  6. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haha, you're not the only one. Earlier I kept saying that I can't believe people were lumping Bily in with Pienaar and Fellaini.
     
  7. FakeFlopper

    FakeFlopper Member

    Jul 21, 2005
    Austin, Tx
    I know, that's 2 games where I've seen him dominate the midfield against quality opponents. Like I said before, I hope Jones is that good.
     
  8. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great start of the game by LD and his passing was sharp throughout. He couldn't get any change off Garrido after getting a few good chances to go 1 on 1 and his touch took him too far on his one scoring chance. It will be interesting to see whether he can be as strong on the dribble as he was against Arsenal when he plays against Left backs stronger than Traore.

    Good shutout for TH
     
  9. Arteta's Girl

    Arteta's Girl Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Liverpool, UK
    Club:
    Everton FC
    I think this is a little harsh, he was getting really involved in the play and made some smart passes and turns and was working really hard (which is something he has been taking stick for not doing). He is still young and adjusting to the league, sure he should of scored but you could say the same about everyone else who missed chances. I like the fact he is willing to keep trying and having a shot as you won't score unless you do. Anyways, he has 4 goals this season so it's not like he doesn't score.

    Ironically enough, it was probably his best performance for us overall and most Everton fans I know were very pleased with him. Think LD coming has give him a kick up the ass cos he knew he was in danger of losing his place.
     
  10. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? Isn't eye-rolling an opinion too? :cool:
     
  11. wsmaugham

    wsmaugham Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Chicago
    I think there's a caveat that you've left out. With this contract there is a buy-out clause (and it doesn't appear that the previous contract had one), so MLS is up the crick if the valuation is met. The question remains what that number is, with wildly disparate speculation on this board. I've seen some posters throw out $20 million, which IMO, has little basis in fact. $10 million has to be the starting point, given that is the price from the horse's mouth previously, and the fact that the person who revealed the buy-out believes the number hasn't changed in any significant way.
     
  12. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny thing while watching the game, every time they showed a closeup of Micah Richards, I wondered when Keyshawn Johnson got an EPL gig.
     
  13. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    True, but in this case (a player that MLS values very highly), I expect the buy-out clause to be well above the open market value a for Landon, because it's a move that Everton can unilaterally make and MLS would be bound to accept... so they've probably come up with an outrageous price that would be enough to make them dance no matter how much they'd wanted to keep Donovan. We all know that Everton are not the richest club on the block, so I'm assuming that the buy-out clause is probably out of the question, or at least out of all but the wildest speculation.

    That doesn't mean that Everton might not find a way to buy him out assuming that at some point Landon and his agent make it clear that he intends to stay, is willing to forgo his 10% and pay a portion of the fee himself, or whatever else has to happen, etc etc... and then Everton and MLS bargain with one another until an acceptable price is reached.
     
  14. Tony Dellbird

    Tony Dellbird English and Proud

    Mar 26, 2004
    Jolly Ol' England
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  15. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Not in the least surprised, as this is looking every bit the most promising club situation of his entire career. All that's left is to speculate A) whether the feeling on the club's side is mutual (as it would seem so), and B) whether Everton has the wherewithal (and possibly whether Donovan has the clout and conviction) to pry away the player that MLS prizes above all others apart from David Beckham.

    MLS is notoriously stubborn when it comes to letting go of the players that broaden the appeal of their league, particularly since they're in the process of expanding with new teams both this season and next.
     
  16. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007

    Im trying to remember which team it was, either Werder Bremen or Wolfsburg (top of the Bundesliga at the time/eventual champions)......but, Jones played similar to Fellani vs Man City. Including, Jones scoring a goal on the same play that he stopped the other teams counter-attack by himself.
     
  17. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    will the galaxy fans start calling him traitor? beckham's first suggestion that he wanted to stay longer (than the original loan stint) at milan last year caused an uproar.
     
  18. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Completely different situation. And... a completely different perspective and perception American fans (LAG or not) have of the players.

    IMO it wasn't just the loan thing with Beckham. It was the huge fanfare arrival followed by the injury and the taking of the armband without playing a single minute, followed by half-hearted play, and THEN begging out on loan and clearly trying pretty hard not to come back (not only that, but after MLS instituted the whole DP "Beckham exception" rule for his benefit). Add to that the release of the Wahl book which revealed that the disaster of Gullit era was of Beckham's handlers' making, while Beckham himself kept mum on all that to his teammates as his personal management was staging a backroom takeover of the club.

    The first part I think is what soured the Riot Squad (and the majority of American fans in general) on Beckham. It felt very much like a "I came, I kinda saw but didn't really pay attention, and I didn't care, so I left" kind of snub. Then came the timely release of the Wahl book when he returned, and its revelations, which was gasoline to a fire. The fans felt snubbed, then they found out they had reasons to really despise him for taking a substantial part in running the club into the ground even as he was begging out of it.

    Then he came back and actually played with some conviction (under a manager who actually knows MLS and with Donovan wearing the armband as he'd earned), and all was well again. I don't think people are that sour on Beckham now. Leery perhaps, but not sour.

    I'm not an LAG fan, but it's a completely different situation.
     
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  19. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    NV
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, definitely a different situation. Good synopsis.
     
  20. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Beckham: never gave everything he had to the Galaxy, caused problems behind the scenes, and lied about his intentions. First he said he was definitely coming back, then he cried and begged to be let go, and then accepted that LA wasn't going to sell him.

    Donovan: has given everything he possibly can to the Galaxy and MLS, and everyone knows that he wants to go to Europe if he finds the right situation. Donovan will handle the situation with a much more (American) professionalism than Beckham.

    It helps that Donovan is American while Beckham is English, but the sentiment would be mostly the same even if Donovan was Mexican.
     
  21. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    As a Quakes fan, I was perfectly willing for Donovan to return to Leverkusen, even though he was the key component of our winning two MLS Cups (that's just my country-over-club mentality), provided that the player himself was eager to go back over there, and that it wouldn't turn out to be a fiasco, which is what happened. He left the Quakes, Leverkusen was a fiasco, and then returned to MLS to the Galz! Ugh. Couldn't have possibly been worse, apart from a career-ending injury.

    And yet, my interest in the player never waned. Even if I booed his return to Spartan Stadium, as we all did. Because above all, he was a key US national team player.
     
  22. wsmaugham

    wsmaugham Member

    Apr 3, 2002
    Chicago
    This is the part I'm not sold on, the idea that they would set an unrealistic valuation as if he was a Messi or Ronaldo that teams are clamoring for. A year ago, when he was a year younger, the number was $10 million. He wasn't really at the end of his contract given the fact he had another eight months plus the league holding two option years- for a 26, soon to be 27 year-old, that's significant. Those two years are essentially the prime years of his career. Factoring that in, it wasn't like they were in danger of losing him, thus the $10 million didn't represent a knockdown price in their eyes. Granted he had a good summer tournament, but it didn't add $10 million to his MLS valuation.

    MLS has always been about the bottom line. If they were willing to sell Donovan before, what has really changed? Yes, a four year deal, but with him already at peak age, and likely to begin to decline in a few years, his value is peaking now, barring a fantastic WC.

    Now, bringing the Galaxy's wishes into the mix changes things certainly, as with the whole Beckham fiasco, they don't want to appear any more disingenuous to their fans then they already do. But that can be allayed by selling him after the WC when Beckham returns, particularly if they can cite the buy-out clause- claiming the player forced the sale and their hands were tied- thus saving face.
     
  23. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Plus the fact that American fans--be they LAG fans or Crew fans or what-have-you--generally share the country-before-club mentality (it's not like they're letting him go to Chivas USA). While some may moan, I think as a group they'll forgive Landon for going to Everton, and LAG for letting him go to the EPL.

    You make a good argument overall. I hope you're right, because I doubt that his next opportunity will be as good as this one. Maybe a more high-profile club, maybe a higher salary, but I can't imagine all the intangibles being in place like they are here and now (the manager, the teammates, the fan base, the relative stability of the club, the fact that it is a competitive squad that's in--and expects to be in--European competition, with teammate Tim Howard and all that...). Unless you really are a megastar like Ronaldo (and we know that's not what Donovan is), this is really about as good a situation as you could hope to find. And even megastars, while they may get the big transfer and the enormous salary and dream club, their manager may well be on the hot seat, the other new complementary big signing a bust, etc... It's hard to beat this one for intangibles.
     
  24. fingersave

    fingersave Member

    Sep 28, 2009
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing I'll always remember about Donovan....

    During Beckham's first season here, Beckham took several games off including his only trip to Pizza Hut Park (which had long since been sold out). I had a ticket to the game.

    Beckham didnt even make the flight.

    Donovan, however, showed up with his boots laced up and put on a show. The guy was all over a field making plays. I think that he either scored or assisted on 5 of the Galactico's 6 goals. He was a blur, and he put on a clinic. There was no doubt who was the best player on the field, and it wasnt even close. My friend was upset that he didnt get to see Beckham, but we left the park talking about how awesome Donovan was...not about Beckham.

    Donovan knew that people paid to see some great soccer and he took it on himself to supply it. Dude won my appreciation that day.
     
    1 person likes this.
  25. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

    Feb 23, 1999
    Kampala. Uganda
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Respectfully, this is complete BS. MLS acts pretty much the same as other teams do - they demand value for its assetts.

    The real issue is that MLS doesn't sell below market and Moyes, for example in his dealings with Brian McBride, doesn't always like to pay market value (which is probably why his clubs outperform their finances usually).
     

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