anoche, el partido entre godoy cruz y universitario terminó con otra despedida de un equipo argentino por penales. fué una despedida insólita porque un arquero que tapa dos penales tedndría que ganarle a un arquero que tapa sólamente uno, pero ya vimos los que pasó. fué un desastre a la par de la despedida de la selección sub-20 en el último mundial de ese nivel, cuándo ganaban 3-1 en los penales y terminaron perdiendo. también la sub-17 se despidió en penales. la selección mayor en la copa américa, no tan insólita la manera de perder, pero también perdieron... me pregunté, y no pude encontrar los datos por eso les pregunto a ustedes, ¿cuándo fué la última vez que un equipo argentino, sea de club o selección, llegó a los penales y ganó? ¿sería en el '90 y las atajadas de goicochea? espero que no... --- last night, the game between godoy cruz and and universitario ended with another goodbye to an argentine team via penalty shootout. it was an unusual goodbye, because a goalie that blocks two goals ought to win against a goalie that only blocks one, but we saw what happened. it was a disaster on the level of the sub-20's goodbye in the last world cup for that level, when they were winning 3-1 in penalties and ended up losing. the sub-17 also said goodbye after penalties. and the national team in copa américa, not as wild a loss, but still a loss... i asked myself, and i couldn't find the answer, so i ask you: what was the last time that an argentine team, be it club or national team, reached penalties and won? would we have to go back to '90 and goicochea's saves? i hope not.
There have been several Argentine club teams which won games by penalties, particularly Boca, who are known for having a lot of international success in the last decade by winning matches through penalties: they won the Libertadores 2000 final in a penalty shootout, the Libertadores 2001 semifinals and final by penalties, the Intercontinental 2003 by penalties, and the Copa Sudamericana 2005 final through penalties as well. As for the NT, we all know our negative history when it comes to down to penalties.
Many defensive teams like boca and arsenal specialize on penalties so they played for them... loco boca also won the 1977 copa libertadores via penalty shoot out... Also the Velez of Chilavert won 3 or their four matches in the knock out stage of the 1994 copa libertadores via penalty shoot outs Independiente also won the 2010 Copa Sudamericana Final via penalties Honestly its a non-story, I believe Argentina has probably one the best records in penalty shoot-outs at both club and country... i remember we beat mexico in 2005 confed cup semis most recently, and before 2004 copa america i dont remember argentina losing on penalties EVER... this is all a new thing since 2004 and 2006 that the national lost mental strength...boca has been a penalty specialist team for years, my team River has a weakness in penalty shoot outs, but we never played for them and always played to win them in the 90 minutes... sort of like argentina in 1990... not good enough to win in 90 minutes so anti-futbol bilardo played for penales
what argentina needs is a goalie who is a penalty saver... abbondonzieri or cordoba for boca... goycochea for argentina... chilavert for velez was probably the best penalty saver ever though, and he was pretty decent at scoring them too romero looked clueless of how to save a penalty... his first mistake was crouching very low when the shooter runs up, when the first thing they teach you as a kid when you play goalie is to "make yourself big"
Romero is actually good at saving penalty kicks. He saved several while playing for Alkmaar. He also guessed the right away on either 2 or 3 shots against Uruguay, but those kicks were perfectly taken, no goalkeeper in the world would have saved them. The last time the NT won a game on penalty kicks was indeed against Mexico in 2005 though. Since 2006 against the penalty kicking machine that is Germany, we've gone downhill.
thanks for all the replies. i should have remembered el rojo winning the sudamericana last year. i followed independiente the whole way and somehow the very end has slipped my mind. but i do remember mentally nominating navarro to the NT! about the goalies being insufficient, i'm not sure that's the trouble. it didn't help godoy cruz that they saved 2, for example. perhaps the high chance of failure for the goalie puts the weight of not making an error on the kicker. i mean, it's penalties after all, and we might as well rationalize the margin of error on flipping a coin, but it seems to me the kickers have to keep making it until they force the other team to make an error, rather than placing the chance to win on your goalie. seems that this area is ripe for analysis via statistics.
Juan Pablo carrizo seemed to be the most complete goal keeper of the three real true international keepers we have now... But his club career is a mess if he is not at River. Romero is decent but makes huge mistakes on goals. Andujar... He is a Sabella favorite for his time at Estudiantes... He is not a WC keeper... IMO... I really don't understand why Franco Costanzo was never given a real look at the national team.... He is a good shot stopper and athletic. Lux was good as well but rides the pine in Spain...
dont know how closely you follow river, but after playing very well he completely fell apart against boca and san lorenzo. even against lanus he just stood there on their opening goal. he literally didn't move on a savable shot. this is coming from a guy who used to idolize carrizo, but once he scored that own goal against boca (or maybe you could argue the week before when he went up to try and score from the corner against all boys) his career went to shit. i wouldn't trust him to ever play for my club again. sure all goalies make mistakes, but carrizo's confidence is done for. i believe sadly his best days are long gone, unless he can find some job where there is little pressure playing in MLS or something, but he is too mentally fragile
And this is why I NEVER participate in Argentine threads other than to post news... Completely stupid post. Carrizo played over 110 games for River and is hands down one of the best GK River EVER HAD. Yes he made HUGE mistakes on a team that was a calamity on it's way to la B.... Blaming Carrizzo or at one time Abelarias for the woes of an entire team is idiotic... Saying he needs to play in MLS is reason why Argentine soccer is where it is.... Why is there little pressure in MLS????? because fans don't run on the field to hit you???? Have you seen Argentine soccer as of late????? It's hardly the EPL dude.... The best team in Argentina is still the best team in most latin american countries but besides Velez, Lanus, and Boca the rest of the teams are utter Crap..... And TODAY..... 70% of the Argentine league would not win a MLS Cup.... We still have GREAT individual players.... but as a league we are a utter mess.... An Example of WHAT NOT TO DO in Football...
There is no pressure in MLS because most of the games are pointless. With so many teams making the playoffs most regular season games are irrelevant. There is no relegation. Even though our relegation system is not the bet, as many as 4 teams go down every year... In MLS you can be terrible every year without consequence There is no media coverage. MLS doesn't even make it onto sportscenter. I live outside DC and DC United is very popular around here, but still behind redskins, capitals, orioles, wizards and college football in terms of media coverage and popularity. The most popular league in the united states is the Mexican primers division followed by EPL. Not MLS. Carrizo is a great keeper BUT you cannot excuse the mistakes he made or his actions AFTER he made them. How are you going to shove el Pato Fillol away like that when he's trying to hug you? A guy who did 10x more for River than Carrizo ever did. Listen to Kempes, he felt the same way.... Right now I will stick with Chichizola and I'd rather have Lux or Costanzo return before Carrizo, who wasn't supportive of Chichizola when injured. I like Carrizo, but he is down the list of people who are idols as goalies. Amadeo, Fillol, Soriano, Pumpido, Mono- those are the true heroes
this is a difficult choice but i'm leaning toward andujar. i was very impressed with him against venezuela. it seems romero has his 1 or 2 mistakes or incertidumbres per game, and in that game, there were too many opportunities for venezuela to grant them that extra chance. so in that one case, i did thank sabella for going with who he did. i wonder what makes you say that he's not a WC GP? is it something tangible you could share, or just a gut feeling?
For your information MLS has been shown on sports center more times this year than ever.... All I read here is a guy quoting what the guys in TYC Sports say.... Blah Blah blah..... Yes MLS does not have regulation and NO that does not mean it is not competitive... Today many teams from Argentina would not survive an MLS season... Aside from Boca, Lanus, and Velez, and throwing Godoy Cruz the rest of futbol Argentino sucks.... Racing is supposed to be a good team and make worst mistakes than any MLS player.... Is that the pressure you speak of? What Pressure??? I call it stupidity... If your team loses one game they suck. They win they are great.. have you seen TYC sports today? Have you seen how they have made River's LONE defeat in la B like if River is on a rollercoaster ride to hell? Do you believe it? I don't we are hands down the best team in LA B. One lose does not erase that... Mexican league has 20 teams of which 8 make the playoffs, sound familiar its MLS current format. Is it less serious league???? Get off your high horse dude... Carrizo was not the greatest Goal Keeper in River history yes it was wrong what he did to Pato.. Then Pato quit the team... Why? Porque cuando el barco se hunde el primero en saltar son las ratas...