La Liga old rankings (Marca & Mundo Deportivo)

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by msioux75, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Msioux, Superb works, I could not imagine to see such a old-time magazine rating.
    I found I overrate Gento before applying these ratings.
     
  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    The 1959-60 season, was an amazing one for Gento.
     
  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Ratings for International Competition 1959-60

    Real Madrid:
    Santamaría- 2,83 (6)
    Ruiz---------- 2,25 (4)
    Di Stéfano - 2,00 (6)
    Puskas
    ------ 1,86 (7)
    Gento
    -------- 1,67 (6)
    Marquitos--- 1,67 (6)
    Vidal
    ---------- 1,67 (6)
    Domínguez-- 1,57 (7)

    Herrera
    ------- 1,40 (5)

    Pepillo 2,00(1); Del Sol 1,67(3); Mateos 1,67(3); Miche 1,67(3); Canario 1,33(3); Pachín 1,33(3); Zárraga 1,00(3); Rial 1,00(1); Lesmes 1,00(1); Pantaleón 1,00(1); Santisteban 0,50(2)

    1/7 matches hadn't match ratings


    Barcelona:
    Segarra --- 2,00 (10)
    Villaverde
    - 1,88 (8)
    Ramallets - 1,77 (13)
    L.Suárez --- 1,70 (10)
    Eulogio M. 1,69 (13)
    Gensana -- 1,67 (12)

    Gracia
    ----- 1,62 (13)
    Evaristo --- 1,38 (8)
    Olivella ---- 1,30 (10)
    Rodri ------ 1,25 (12)


    Kubala 2,33 (6); Czibor 2,20 (5); Coll 2,00 (5); Vergés 1,17 (6); Ribelles 1,00 (4); Tejada 1,00 (1); Kocsis 0,75 (4); Flotats 0,67 (3)

    6/13 matches hadn't match ratings



    SPAIN NT:
    Eulogio M. - 2,25 (4)
    Gento
    ------- 2,00 (5)
    Di Stéfano
    - 1,80 (5)
    Ramallets -- 1,80 (5)
    L.Suárez
    --- 1,75 (4)
    Gracia ------- 1,60 (5)
    Garay ------- 1,40 (5)
    Segarra ----- 1,40 (5)


    Mestre 2,00 (1) Tejada 2,00 (1); Vergés 1,67 (3); Gensana 1,33 (3); Del Sol 1,00 (1); Peiró 1,00 (1); Pachín 1,00 (1); Herrera 1,00 (1); Pereda 1,00 (1); Mateos 1,00 (1); Kubala 0,50 (2); Arteche 0,50 (2); Olivella 0,33 (3)

    4/5 matches hadn't match ratings
     
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  4. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003

    Can I ask what your stars mean?
     
  5. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    It's something similar to other threads:
    **** - legendary class
    *** - world class
    ** - international class
    * - local class
     
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  6. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Thanks. I assumed so but just wanted to check.
     
  7. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    In 1958 - 1959, Di Stefano was a top scorer of the league but he was not rated in top 50 player of the season by Marca & Mundo. That seems a high level of bias against foreigner.
     
  8. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    #58 schwuppe, Aug 12, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
    I did a lot of stuff with recent (1990 onwards) ratings by Marca/Mundo/AS and their grades are in general a bit crappy compared to magazines from other countries and openly biased towards either Real (Marca/AS) or Barca (Mundo/Sport).

    That's just Spanish media.


    That said Strikers often have a low average rating, but get a lot of highly rated games in matches where they score.

    Romario for example got 1,17 (Marca) and 2,11 (Mundo - their scale is from 1-4 and Marca's is from 0-3, so the Mundo rating is even worse), but had 7 games with the highest grade.
     
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  9. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    These ratings provided by Marca (newspaper from Madrid) were a bit surprising for me, since I expected some bias in favor of Madrid teams (Real & Atlético), but it wasn't the case.

    For the particular 1957-58 season, the #50 got a rating of 1,67, meanwhile Di Stefano got 1,61 (points more or less, he could be in the bottom of the list)

    These are La Liga monthly ratings for Di Stefano:
    Sep 1.67(3) - Oct 2.50(4) - Nov 1.80(5) - Dec 0.67(3) - Jan 1.00(4) - Feb 2.25(4) - Mar 1.33(3) - Apr 1.00(2)

    Being, Oct & Feb world class performances, Sep & Nov international class.

    Note that in his EC matches, he had the highest ratings this season.
     
  10. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Here are his and the other 3 foreigners ratings in detail btw. I can't upload the excel sheet, because the colors don't work properly on google sheets. The black boarder means highest rated player on his team. In case it has the whitish color in addition it was the only player with that rating.

    Looks like Romario didn't care much about showing up to CL games - his 2 goals in 10 games already suggested that.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    He gave a few assists in those matches he didn't score though. A detail most posters seem to omit quiet often. If you watch the matches in full you will see that besides not scoring he was very much influential for quiet a few victories for Barca in UCL 93/94.

    But you will have to watch those matches in full o course.
     
  12. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I watched the games in full more than 20 years ago, honestly don't remember. Could be that they are both biased against him or didn't pay attention.

    You are his PR agent, so I'm sure you are more impratial.
     
  13. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #63 msioux75, Aug 19, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
    Since the season 1958-59, Marca rated each Primera Division matches.

    These are the ratings for 1st Round (pg. 5, 7, 8, 9), as explained in the OP.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    In contrast, in previous seasons, only 1 match from Madrid teams was rated. The other matches had their reports, in most cases explaining which players were the better players and which ones the worst for each game.

    For example in the season 1957-58, only Real Madrid match was rated (at the bottom of pg.3)
    [​IMG]

    The other matches had their reports (pg. 4-7), and also the Outstanding Players section (at the bottom of pg.6)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    All this material is in the Arefepedia site, linked in the Opening Post.
     
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  15. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Season 1957-58

    ------- Player---------------Role-----Club---Country--Games--Rating

    01) SANTAMARÍA, José --------------- CB --- Real Madrid -- Uruguay - 27 - 1.96
    02) ARAQUISTÁIN, José -------------- GK --- Real Sociedad --- Spain - 21 - 1.90
    03) GENTO, Francisco
    ----------------- LW ---- Real Madrid -- Spain - 28 - 1.89
    04) EIZAGUIRRE, Ignacio ------------ GK ------ Osasuna ----- Spain - 28 - 1.89
    05) SANTISTEBAN, Juan ------------- RM --- Real Madrid --- Spain - 26 - 1.88
    06) KUBALA, Ladislao ------------------ IR ------ Barcelona - Hun/Spa - 21 - 1.86
    07) KOPA: Raymond Kopaszewski - RW --- Real Madrid -- France - 27 - 1.85
    08) MIGUEL González ----------------- RW - Atlético Madrid - Spain - 25 - 1.84
    09) SÁNCHEZ, Francisco ------------- LW -------- Gijón -------- Spain - 22 - 1.82
    10) LESMES I, Francisco --------------- CB ----- Valladolid ----- Spain - 27 - 1.81

    11) WALTER Marciano -------------- IR ---- Valencia --- Brazil - 25 - 1.80
    12) SENDRA, Francisco ---------- RM/LM - Valencia --- Spain - 27 - 1.78
    13) QUINCOCÉS II, Juan C. Díaz
    -- CB -- Valencia ---- Spain -- 30 - 1.77
    14) SASTRE, José ---------------------- RM -- Español ---- Spain --- 25 - 1.76
    15) BENAVÍDEZ, Juan Armando - CF --- Español - Argentina - 28 - 1.75
    16) VICENTE, José -------------------- GK --- Español ----- Spain -- 28 - 1.75
    17) OLIVA, Joaquín ------------------- CB ------- Jaen ------- Spain -- 28 - 1.75
    18) DI STEFANO, Alfredo ----------- CF - Real Madrid - Arg/Spa - 30 - 1.73
    19) MANOLÍN; Manuel Martínez - LM -- Zaragoza ---- Spain -- 21 - 1.71
    20) TONI; José Antonio Martínez -- LM ---- Celta ------- Spain -- 30 - 1.70

    21) GARBAYO, Francisco ---- RB/LB ---- Zaragoza --- Spain - 20 - 1.70
    22) PEPÍN; José Casas ------------ GK ---- Las Palmas --- Spain - 29 - 1.69
    23) MARAÑÓN, Adolfo Pérez
    - RM ----- Osasuna ---- Spain - 28 - 1.68
    24) SEGARRA, Joan ---------------- RB ---- Barcelona ---- Spain - 27 - 1.67
    25) PEIRÓ, Joaquín ----------------- IL - Atlético Madrid -- Spain - 24 -- 1.67
    26) RIAL, Héctor -------------------- IL --- Real Madrid - Arg/Spa - 27 - 1.63
    27) IRULEGUI, José ---------------- LB - Real Sociedad --- Spain - 27 - 1.63
    28) CERDÁN, Enrique ------------ LW ----- Osasuna ----- Spain - 18 - 1.61
    29) MARÍN, Luis ------------------- RM -------- Celta ------- Spain - 18 - 1.61
    30) CARMELO Cedrún ----------- GK - Athletic Bilbao - Spain - 30 - 1.60

    31) DOMINGO, Jesús ------------------ RW ---- Zaragoza --- Spain - 25 - 1.60
    32) MÉNDEZ, Manuel
    ----------------- CB ----- Granada ----- Spain - 25 - 1.60
    33) GARAY, Jesús ----------------------- CB - Athletic Bilbao - Spain - 27 - 1.59
    34) BASORA, Estanislao --------------- RW ---- Barcelona --- Spain - 22 - 1.59
    35) OLMEDO, Pablo --------------------- IR --------- Celta ----- Spain - 22 - 1.59
    36) RUIZ SOSA, Manuel --------------- RM -------- Sevilla ---- Spain - 26 - 1.58
    37) MADRILES; Rogelio Rodríguez - GK --------- Jaen ------- Spain - 19 - 1.58
    38) COLLAR, Enrique ------------------ LW - Atlético Madrid - Spain - 21 - 1.57
    39) VILLAR, José ------------------------- CB --------- Celta ------- Spain - 30 - 1.57
    40) GORDEJUELA, Fermín ------------ RB -- Real Sociedad -- Spain - 30 - 1.57

    41) BERMÚDEZ, José --------- LM ------- Jaen ------ Spain - 28 - 1.57

    42) GOYO; Gregorio Vergel - GK ---- Valencia ---- Spain - 28 - 1.57
    43) BERNAD, Julio
    ------------- LB ---- Zaragoza --- Spain - 23 - 1.57
    44) VERGÉS, Martín ---------- RM ---- Barcelona --- Spain - 25 - 1.56
    45) GONZÁLEZ, Manuel ---- CB ----- Osasuna ---- Spain - 27 - 1.56
    46) PAZOS, Manuel ---------- GK - Atlético Madrid - Spain - 29 - 1.55
    47) GENSANA, Enrique ---- LM ----- Barcelona --- Spain - 22 - 1.55
    48) TORRES, Manuel --------- RB ----- Zaragoza --- Spain - 20 - 1.55
    49) BIEMPICA, Rafael ------ IL/IR ------ Gijón ------ Spain - 26 - 1.54
    50) CALLEJO, Alberto ------- LB - Atlético Madrid - Spain - 23 - 1.52


    Bonus
    SEGUÍ, Vicente ----------- LW ------ Valencia ------- Spain - 27 - 1.52
    GAUSÍ, Antonio
    --------- RW --------- Celta --------- Spain - 27 - 1.52
    SABINO Andonegui ----- CF ------ Osasuna ------- Spain - 29 - 1.52
    RICARDO Alós ------------ IL ------ Valencia ------- Spain - 29 - 1.52
    ARREGUI, Ángel --------- CF -------- Jaen ----------- Spain - 23 - 1.52
    BEN BAREK, Abdallah - RW ----- Granada ----- Morocco - 24 - 1.50
    MARSAL, Ramón --------- IR --- Real Madrid ----- Spain - 20 - 1.50
    PETER Ilku ---------------- RM - Atlético Madrid - Hungary - 21 - 1.48
    MARTÍNEZ, Eulogio ---- CF ---- Barcelona ----- Paraguay - 19 - 1.47
    RAMALLETS, Andoni -- GK ---- Barcelona ------- Spain --- 22 - 1.45
    OLIVELLA, Ferran ---- RB/CB -- Barcelona ------- Spain -- 20 - 1.45
    MOLL, Dagoberto --------- IL -------- Celta ------- Uruguay - 22 - 1.45
    BADENES, Manuel ------- CF --- Valladolid ------- Spain -- 29 - 1.41
    COLL, Oscar ---------------- IL ------ Español ---- Argentina - 24 - 1.38
     
  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Ideal team 1957-58 (Marca unnoficial)
    ---------------- Eizaguirre
    Segarra ---------- Santamaría ---------- Irulegui
    --------- Santisteban -------- Sendra
    -------------------- Di Stéfano
    Kopa ----- Kubala --------- J.Peiró ----- Gento


    Note: Most teams used a sort of 3-3-4, with a withdrawn CF (or a constructive-type of Inside Forward), and a twin-spearhead upfront.

    Also, for the lack of ratings (replaced by match reports) and being, these, broadly ratings. I considered a difference of 0.10 like zero, as rough estimating. In this scenario, is possible that Di Stefano will be a top-10 player this Season.
     
  17. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    La Liga 1957-58 (Stars not making the top-50)

    Low rating

    Ramallets, Olivella, Gracia, Eulogio Martínez, Evaristo - Barcelona
    Peter Ilku - Atlético Madrid
    Oscar Coll - Español
    Dagoberto Moll - Celta
    Arza - Sevilla
    Badenes - Valladolid


    Less than 18 matches
    Rogelio Domínguez, Marquitos - Real Madrid
    Biosca, Villaverde, Luis Suárez - Barcelona
    Puchades - Valencia
    Heriberto Herrera - Atlético Madrid
    Gaínza - Athletic Bilbao
    Ernesto Gutiérrez - Celta
    Molowny - Las Palmas
    Jaime Ramírez - Granada


    https://www.bdfutbol.com/es/t/t1957-58.html
     
  18. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #68 msioux75, Aug 21, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
    My own estimation about best players in La Liga 1957-58:

    4 stars: -

    3 stars: 5 players
    Santamaría, Araquistáin, Gento, Eizaguirre & Santisteban

    2 stars: 18 players
    Kubala, Kopa, Miguel, Sánchez, Lesmes I, Walter, Sendra, Quincocés II, Sastre, Benavidez, Vicente, Di Stefano, Segarra, Peiró, Rial, Garay, Basora, E.Collar
     
  19. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    1957-58 Euro Team of the Month candidates:

    September:
    Manolín (Spa) - GK
    Kopa (Fra) - RW
    Gento (Spa) - LW
    E.Collar (Spa) - LW


    October:
    Goyo (Spa) - GK
    Miguel (Spa) - RW
    Pepillo (Spa) - CF


    November:
    Vicente (Spa) - GK
    Kubala (Spa) - IL
    Biempica (Spa) - IL


    December:
    Santamaría (Uru) - CB
    Chuzo (Spa) - LM
    Benavidez (Arg) - CF
    Gento (Spa) - LW


    January:
    Gordejuela (Spa) - RB
    Ansola (Spa) - CB
    Baena (Spa) - CB
    J.Peiró (Spa) - IL
    Benavidez (Arg) - CF
    Gento (Spa) - LW


    February:
    Eizaguirre (Spa) - GK
    Marquitos (Spa) - RB
    Quincocés II (Spa) - CB
    Santisteban (Spa) - RM
    Marañón (Spa) - RM
    Puchades (Spa) - LM
    Chuzo (Spa) - LM
    Kubala (Spa) - IR
    Sabino (Spa) - IL


    March:
    Manolín (Spa) - GK
    Garay (Spa) - CB
    Santisteban (Spa) - RM
    Bermudez (Spa) - LM
    Adalberto (Spa) - IL
    Kopa (Fra) - RW
    Di Stefano (Arg) - CF


    April:
    Eizaguirre (Spa) - GK

    Garay (Spa) - CB
    Dieguez (Arg) - IR
    Paz (Spa) - IL
    Kopa (Fra) - RW
    Di Stefano (Arg) - CF



    Roles nominees for the monthly Euro XI:
    Sep-3, Oct-3; Nov-2; Dec-4; Jan-5; Feb-7; Mar-7; Apr-6
     
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  20. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Oh, I forgot to mention that teams playing away used to play with a Cerrojo, a sort of Swiss Verrou or Catenaccio. With one of the wingers or Midfielders forming a back-4 with the other 3 defenders. To strenghten the midfield, one or two inside forwards or the deep-lying CF. Leaving upfront two or three men.

    Note that this season few matches got ratings, so the overall ratings are lower comparing to other season (with full ratings). For example, the #1 this season, Santamaria (rating of 1,96) could have over 2,00 rating, with grades of full matches
     
  21. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Ratings for International Competition 1957-58

    Real Madrid:
    Di Stéfano
    - 2,71 (7)
    Santisteban- 2,20 (5)
    Gento-------- 2,00 (6)
    Rial----------- 2,00 (6)
    Kopa--------- 1,71 (7)
    Santamaría
    - 1,71 (7)
    Alonso------- 1,75 (4)
    Lesmes------ 1,67 (6)
    Marsal------- 1,60 (5)
    Zárraga----- 1,57 (7)
    Atienza
    ------ 1,00 (4)


    Pereda 2,00(1), Dominguez 1,67(3), Marquitos 1,67(3), Muñoz 1,00(2), Joseito 1,00(2), Mateos 1,00(1), Becerril 1,00(1)


    Barcelona:
    Basora ---- 1,80 (5)
    Eulogio ---- 1,50 (4)
    Segarra --- 1,40 (5)
    Ramallets - 1,33 (3)
    Olivella ---- 1,25 (4)
    Evaristo --- 1,20 (5)
    Tejada ---- 1,20 (5)
    Vergés
    ---- 1,00 (4)

    Gracia ----- 1,00 (3)


    Kubala 3,00(2), Estrems 2,50(2), Suarez 2,00(2), Villaverde 2,00(2), Gensana 1,50(2), Bosch 1,50(2), Brugué 1,50(2), Flotats 1,00(2), Ribelles 1,00(1)


    Sevilla:
    Pepín
    ------- 2,00 (3)
    Herrera II -- 1,80 (5)
    Pepillo ----- 1,67 (3)
    Antoniet --- 1,50 (6)
    Ruiz Sosa
    - 1,50 (4)
    Ramoní ---- 1,50 (4)
    Arza -------- 1,40 (5)

    Romero
    ---- 1,40 (5)
    Campanal - 1,33 (3)
    Busto
    ------- 1,33 (3)
    Pauet ------- 1,25 (4)
    Valero ------ 1,17 (6)
    Loren ------- 0,80 (5)


    Paya 2,00(1), Javier 1,00(2), Arsenio 1,00(2), Guerrica 1,00(1), Arenas 1,00(1), Maraver 0,00(2), Liz 0,00(1)


    SPAIN NT:
    Di Stéfano -- 2,00 (5)
    Gento -------- 2,00 (3)
    Santisteban - 1,80 (5)
    Kubala ------- 1,75 (4)
    Garay
    -------- 1,60 (5)
    Carmelo ----- 1,50 (4)

    L.Suárez
    ---- 1,25 (4)
    Zarraga ------ 1,25 (4)
    Quincoces -- 1,00 (5)
    Callejo ------- 1,00 (3)


    Segarra 1,00(2), Rial 1,00(2), Ramallets 1,00(1), Gensana 1,00(1), Tejada 1,00(1), Marsal 1,00(1), Collar 0,50(2)
     
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