Koscielny floors bitches -- the Laurent Koscielny thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Romfordray, May 22, 2014.

  1. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    High-foot foul should be a red card, and is subject to the John Terry exception.
     
  2. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With 30 secs remaining in the game, does it really matter much if it was a red, yellow or no card at all?

    Apparently, whether he was deemed offside, and whether a PK could be awarded, seem to be the only salient points.

    Yesterday on Guardian's Football Weekly podcast, I heard Raf Honigstein say something interesting about this (paraphrased): "you can't get a PK if the ball's not in play, and the balls not in play if he's deemed offside". Hmm.

    The moment he could be deemed offside is when the ball hits his head, right?

    I rewatched the replay and it seems that the ball hit his head about 1/2 second before the boot hits his head.

    So if Raf's right, then had they called him offside, that would've meant that the high-boot foul was during a deadball situation and therefore no PK could be awarded.

    There are probably no referees who could get this right in real-time, given the split-second between the two key events. It would even challenge an ace video assistant ref, but certainly video would reveal the exact sequence of events.

    So, if all of the above is correct, I think we got away with one Sunday. :)
     
  3. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It was a red card and yes it matters. You cant perform violent conduct at the end of a match. What a moronic thing to say.
     
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  4. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    May 10, 2006
    Beavercreek, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's offside when he attempts to play the ball. I wouldn't have had any problem from that perspective if a penalty hadn't been given.

    But that has no bearing on whether a red should have been issued. It should've.

    And, ftr, I don't feel bad at all about the penalty being incorrectly awarded. In fact, I kinda like it more. If people can use their kharmic bullshit meter to say whether a team 'deserved' a point or whatever, then I think it's clear we didn't 'deserve' to lose that match. And I'll take a win if I can get it as long as we don't have to cheat to achieve it.
     
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  5. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he's called offisde, then by Raf's reasoning a PK can't be awarded, even if Mee was red carded. Thus the red card doesn't really affect the result, but the offside/PK does. And that last minute result was huge for us. That was the point I was trying to make. If Mee gets a red and thus a suspension, it doesn't affect that game or our remaining season at all.
     
  6. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The high boot, even before contact, was a foul.
     
  7. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, but how often do you see that called? A dangerously high-boot in the air, compared to a high-boot that comes in contact with a player's head or upper body?
     
  8. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    If offside is called no pen

    But red card?
     
  9. Romfordray

    Romfordray Member+

    Oct 24, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIRC, Kos scored two goals in key games over two different seasons to keep us in the top 4. His overall impact has been nothing sort of astounding. Criminally under-rated. It is when players like him, Gilberto, and Sagna are gone for a while do you realize what they brought to the team and club.
     
  10. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My man crush level has increased:
    https://www.arsenal.com/news/laurent-koscielny-stronger-depth-documentary

    Seriously though, this video might be about 20 minutes too long, but its very well done. I truly felt for Laurent when he went down vs. Athletico last May. As soon as he punched the ground I knew--as he did--that his World Cup was over.

    Many doubted he could even come back from that injury, and yet he is once again our strongest defender this season.

    Kudos to him and to the Arsenal staff. We often complain about how inept our training staff is with may of the players who have recurring injuries (ok, a lot of time the complaining is more about the individual player that is injured) but in this case, the player and the staff got it right.

    I hope Laurent has 2 more solid seasons left in him at Arsenal and that he can raise a trophy or 2 in that time. He deserves it.
     
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  11. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed. And when I read your post it was like deja vu. I'd either read (or written?) basically the same exact post about 6 months ago. In the injury thread IIRC.

    But when I went back to look for that injury thread, there was nothing after 2017. Am I imagining such a thread being active after 2017? Or did it get deleted??

    Anyway, with Kos down again with some vague new foot injury, we've really missed him. I pray that he can make it back for the next 5-6 weeks of our run-in.
     
  12. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    He is still our best cb
     
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  13. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    , and that's a problem.
     
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  14. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair point.

    Socratis is a solid veteran when he's not injured or suspended. Mustafi hasn't improved since he arrived. Monreal isn't even a centerback and I'd argue he's next in the pecking order based on recent availability. Holding is/was the most likely to (gulp) replace Kos as the next generation CB and yet he's unfortunately injured. Beyond that, is Chambers in Emery's plans? Plaguzelo? If I'm forgetting someone, it's because they are flat out forgettable.
     
  15. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oddly, I keep hearing all this "insider" talk that the coaches rate Mavropanos quite highly. But then that of course raises (not "begs" that misuse really bothers me) the question as to why Mustafi still gets starts over him when there's a CB spot open. I dunno?
     
  16. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just ensuring we cover all our basis here (this one bugs the F out of me :eek: ) Isn't Mavropanos our new Diaby?
     
  17. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For all intensive purposes....he is not.
    :p
     
  18. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clearly for some reason that is unclear to me ;) Mavropanos is not ready for prime time. In the eyes of our coaches. Otherwise he'd be in our squad and/or nudging Mustafi out of the way. But we digress.
     
  19. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man it JUST hit me...the audio in this video is from The Cell Saga in DBZ....hahaha that just makes it better

     
  20. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    He was injured until January.
     
  21. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes I knew that. But January is 3 months ago. And I'm sure Mavropanos started a few U23 matches after that.

    But did he get injured again? If so, why hasn't that showed up in our "Team News"? And if he is injured again, what's the deal... is he super delicate? And what was the first injury anyway?

    You see, there are so many more questions about him than answers. ;)
     
  22. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So it sounds like Kos is stirring the pot at Arsenal, trying to leverage his 9 years of service to push his way out and leave the club high and dry.

    Really really interesting stuff. I feel like a lot of people have already chosen sides, calling him RVP and all that. Personally, I'm going to reserve judgement until I can find the time to listen to the Ornstein interview, but by no means is my default to blame the player. The inner workings of this club is an absolute shit show, and if Kos sniffed it out, he's certainly been there long enough to have seen it all.
     
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  24. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’ll just blame Emery either way
    LoLo for life!
    Emery raus!
     
  25. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #125 ArsenalJake, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    Very good analysis (a bit repetitive) from Arseblog this morning, so I'll just leave this here:

    https://arseblog.com/2019/07/koscielny-is-in-the-wrong-and-arsenal-have-a-real-mess-on-their-hands/

    I get that Kos is in the wrong here from a black and white perspective, but I'm glad he's fighting for what he believes he deserves. I believe he deserves whatever he's seeking. He's already given us everything, there's no reason for a big club like Arsenal to believe they should be milking him for more. There should already be multiple plans/players in place to solve for this.

    The fact that at 33 years old and knackered, Koscielny is the most valuable CB we have, and we can't sell Mustafi, and we offered Chambers to Palace, and we think Mavropanos isn't the solution, and we're telling Bielik he doesn't have a role in the first team, AND Holding is still injured, and the one player we've signed at CB we're loaning back to his current club for a year . . . ARE YOU F'ING SERIOUS??
     
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