They might actually be coming back now. Brazil made 2018 World Cup with ease and was the second team to qualify after Russia the hosts. I wouldn't say Brazil is the favorite to win but they are up there and could make a good run and maybe win it. Gabriel Jesus is a striker with a lot of potential. Neymar is world class. Douglas Costa, and Coutinho are good players. Casameiro is a great midfielder. Then Alves, Marcelo, and Sandro are all good full backs. Silva and Luiz are alright but not many national teams have a great defense. Germany probably has the best honestly.
Italians and Brazilians always come back. Just look at history. Does anyone honestly think Brazil will be mediocre forever? Not on your life. The same can be said for Germany and maybe even France. I guarantee you Italia will be back! You better believe it! Viva e forza Italia per sempre! Non si dovrebbe neanche discutere!
The FIGC has already implemented a very similar (and totally obnoxious) rule regarding the number of "non-EU" players Italian clubs can sign during the transfer window. It has done f*ck all to help improve the state of Italian talent over the past five+ years, especially, because the simple fact is that foreigners are not the problem. The problem has been staring the FIGC & co. in the face for year, they just can't bring themselves to admit it. In Spain, reserve squads actually compete in the lower divisions, against actual professionals and subjected to the pressure that comes with being threatened by relegation or prized with promotion. By the time Spanish players turn the age of 20, they are seasoned veterans and those that are not good enough have been weeded out by the major clubs. That's because in Spain, 20 is not considered particularly young, because it's not. Not in a profession where you're basically done by the age of 35. That 20 year-olds are still stuck in the Primaveras of Serie A clubs up and down the peninsula tells you all you need to know about the "Italian attitude" about blooding talent. And until that changes, the quality of Italian players will continue to decline. It's as simple as that. I'm just getting f*cking sick and tired of my club being blamed for all of it, especially when Juventus has basically been the only saving grace Italy can claim for the last half decade.
A half decade? Juventus has been at the forefront of the national team for half a century if not longer. Here is Italy's set up, with 8 Juventus players, before the match against France in the 1978 FIFA World Cup...
It was a bad pass. It was not the formation that forced that pass. He was not under pressure. And Khedira was open, in the center next to Matuidi but the pass was way off mark. The formation had nothing to do with it.
Buffon has been injured. So too De Sciglio. Those are two likely Italian starters. Barzagli is older and does not start every match. Marchisio has not fully recovered from his knee surgery. Sturaro is occasionally used. Bonucci transferred. Juve has invested in young talent, two of which play from time to time, Rugani & Bernardeschi. Others are on loan. So the club is going through a transition with Italian players. But it is rich in talent among young Italians.
I know that. In various other posts on this forum I've talked about the symbiotic relationship between Juventus and the Azzurri. No other club has been so fundamental in the success of their country's national team, at least not at such a high level. Only Bayern Munich can be mentioned in the spirit, and it's still not the same. What I was referencing was Calciopoli, when, despite everything this club has done for Italian football, it did't even afford us a fair trial in front of the sporting tribunal. They were perfectly happy to see that this club ceased to exist. They even announced our relegation to Serie C2 (overturned on appeal and re-sentenced to relegation in Serie B) on the same day Italy defeated Germany in 2006 WC semi-final. Before 2006, I was very proud of Juve's contribution to the Italian NT and an avid supporter of the Azzurri. Calciopoli changed all of that.
And Caldara looks like he could be the coup-signing of the last half-decade. But instead of being praised for our (still continuing) commitment to Italian talent, we're criticized for "monopolizing" the market for Italian youth. We literally cannot win in this situation, which is why I believe we should have chucked it in years ago when it comes to this issue.
I think calciopoli did a lot of harm to the Serie A and indirectly to the national team. It still doesn't explain starting ten non Italian players on top clubs and I don't believe more Italian talent can't be found, groomed or developed. Italy traditionally has had the best defenders and GK's on earth for as long as I remember and where they came from, I'm sure others can be brought to the forefront.
It's not Juve's responsibility to produce players for the National Team, it's the FIGC's. Italy is light years behind other nations when it comes to this and that's down to the Italian attitude. A player like M'bappe would never get a chance in Italy because they'd deem him too young, it's that stupid Italian mindset.
It’s not Juve’s responsibity but whichever way you look at it, they are and always have been the main protagonists for producing Italy’s national team players. They work hand in hand and a strong Juventus has the potential of giving you a great nazionale. That has been going on for as long as I remember.
So who are these Italian players we should have right now? I would take Belotti in a heartbeat. It is not a position we have open and a crosstown transfer in this case would be difficult. I know many want Donnarumma but he is yet the polished product. Truth is that among the current crop of Azzurri players, no one really stands out. We have a lock on the next generation hopefully.
They most certainly would have because they were great players. Great players have a way of finding themselves in starting elevens at top clubs. This theory you have that Italian players are being held back is completely irrational. The good ones that we have are playing at top clubs.
Belotti, Verratti, Florenzi, Caldara, Spinnazola, Bonucci, Romagnoli, Insigne, plus the ones we already have. Replace Lichtsteiner with Florenzi Khedira with Verratti Benatia with Caldara Asamoah with Spinnazola Add Romagnoli when Barzagli retires Add Bonucci Add Belotti Replace Cuadrado with Insigne
Replace Benatia with Caldara, LOL. Insigne will never, ever play for this club. Bonucci is a goner and not even remotely needed. Romagnoli can burn down with Milan. Verratti is never playing for this club either Neither is Florenzi Nor Belotti for that matter
Not so sure. Baggio was outcasted by Lippi twice at Juventus and Inter and by Capello at Milan. ADP was also going to end up somewhere else if it weren’t for Calciopoli because Don Fabio didn’t like him. They were all top players at great clubs who were run out of town. Zola at Parma was shipped out to Chelsea by Ancelotti. If it were today with 10 non Italian starters, odds are pretty good they will have not found room at those clubs even worse than they did 15- 20 years ago.
Not all players are great to begin with and many need time and patience to develop. While Paolo Maldini was losing his 3 straight World Cup in france 1998, Fabio Grosso was militaiting with Renato Curi in the Promozione Abruzzese. He played in the same position that Maldini did and won the World Cup almost all by himself and King Paolo couldn't what he did in 4 World Cups and one Euro Cup final. Christian Riganò was scoring goals galore while he was in the Serie C1 and C2 and when he was finally given a chance at an advanced age with Fiorentina, he showed what he could do in the upper tiers. Luca Toni was also a journeyman when I saw him record his first hat trick for Brescia against Perugia. He went onto Palermo , scored 50 goals between the Serie B & A and became a WC Champion. No one knew these guys or where they came from but I'm almost certain other players like them can emerge. The trouble is, they won't as long as you have Serbians, Croatian, Africans and South Americans playing their positions. I just don't believe all these other countries produce better players and for the most part , they don't.
Grosso was 24 when he joined Fiorentina, for a defender that's not considered an advanced age. Luca Toni was a journeyman his entire career, doing better with smaller clubs. His scored 16 goals in 47 appearances for Italy, nothing to brag about. It's not like Italy's attacking players were all that great at WC 06, Iaquinta, Toni, Inzaghi (who was already 32), Gilardino, Del Piero. Not many in that list that would be starting at a big club.
If you want to split hairs, neither ADP , Zola, Mancini or Totti did much for Italy. Totti even retired while he was still in his prime. This wasn’t my initial point though. The thing is we won’t develop anyone close to any of those guys for club or country if you have 11 different foreigners starting on top clubs. If this is the case, why even bother having a national team program? At this point we should just start a Serie A all star group with a bunch of foreigners with fake passports and call them Italy because that is where is leading.
yeah I do not like this either. This team is supposed to be a constant feeder to the Italian National team and it part of the appeal of supporting Juve is that they are not like other teams who just assemble an "all star cast" of guys and it just makes the fans and supporters look like customers. Juve could have had Zaza starting where Gonzalo is and he would be doing just fine, then we could have spent Pogba money on getting a proper midfielder. Zaza found the net enough when he was on loan and had a good scoring ratio here.
I'm sorry man, you lost me at Zaza starting in place of Gonzalo... Additionally, I don't care about the Italian National team because I am not Italian. I care about Juventus and not the nationalities of the starters. If they are all Italian and we are winning, then great! If they is only 1 starting (like started this convo again) and we are winning, then great. I can understand if you are a Italian National team supporter that you want Juve to only have Italians because as previously stated, we were the backbone of the National team during their good years. We are a club, not a national team, our goal is to win Serie A and Champions League. Not to win the World Cup. Also, we have heavily invested in Italian youth to hopefully continue making this club great with players such as Spinnazola (sp), Orsolini, Caldera, Pinsiglio, Mandragora, Kean, and Bernadeschi. I think we are doing just fine with Italians...