Jay Heaps after 5 years: still the right guy for the job?

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by RevsLiverpool, Dec 14, 2016.

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Should Heaps still be the coach for the 2017 Revs?

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    5.1%
  2. No

    48 vote(s)
    81.4%
  3. Yes - but on a short leash.

    8 vote(s)
    13.6%
  1. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lee may be pissed off that they refused to sell him to that Israeli club. He's out of contract, and I'm sure he'll wind up somewhere with a salary more than double what he gets here. Because they thought they were going to the playoffs instead of taking the money now, so they could buy a replacement later. But they will wind up with nothing and whinge that it's too hard to sign good players with "limited resources." If he's got a foot out the door (and who could blame him), I can understand him not wanting the armband.
     
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  2. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA & CA, USA
    This. Is. BRILLIANT.

    The best summation of the problems plaguing the Revolution organization that I'be ever read.
     
  3. BERich

    BERich Member+

    Feb 3, 2012
    New England
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They seemed to hint at the coach and FO, especially toward the end by highlighting the lack of development. I sincerely hope they play Herivaux and Wright the rest of this season.
     
  5. CynicRev

    CynicRev New Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Update: it's been more than 24 hours since the Revs suffered one of the most spectacularly and historically embarrassing defeats; effectively ending in yet another season without making the playoffs and Coach, GM, and President all still employed. Stay tuned sports fans. (Mr Kraft, please tune in.)
     
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  6. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To paraphrase what was once said about the British Army: "The Revolution are Lions led by Donkeys".
     
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  7. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, they mention Soares, but neglected Burns' reaction to his departure of being "caught off guard." Yeah, an out-of-contract starter who has a European passport and is being paid at the lower end of the pay scale, who turned down an offer for modest increase... Caught off guard. What does he think this is the Patriots, where players don't have any other options?
     
  8. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's actually one of the things that most irks me about the Revs FO. They have long seemed to believe that they operate in the same sort of universe as the NFL, where the competition is just the rest of MLS, and maybe the US minor leagues. They've shown very little sense that they're not competing for resources and talent just with DCU, LA, and Chicago, but with EVERY OTHER TEAM ON THE PLANET. You can only use the Patriots model if you're a highly desirable destination in a powerful monopolistic league. The Revs are not a desirable destination (admittedly, Boston might be for those who've heard of it - not as many as the FO might like to believe though. But no one is coming to New England for a shot at glory a la the Pats), and MLS is not a monopoly. It's telling that Gonsalves is now playing in India, and one of the only noteworthy offers for our star players in recent memory came from Israel. The competition is EVERYWHERE.

    I will give the Revs some credit that they seem to slowly be realizing that they can't be the cheapest asses when it comes to tracking down foreign talent. They do seem to be shopping a little more than in years past. But the Krafts overall are using a completely inappropriate financial model for their on-the-field product. You want to build a good team? You have to out-offer not just the MLS sides, but the Danish sides, the Chinese sides, and the Argentine sides too. Seattle gets that. NYCFC gets that. Portland gets that. Somehow, I don't think Burnsie et al have an inkling of it.
     
  9. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do believe they have an inkling. They do know the results of their own failures. I just don't think they really care. That is, if they can continue to get enough kiddie groups and school packages and fans interested in seeing other, better, teams in order to keep Patriot Place more or less profitable through the year, then the particular on field results are not important enough to invest in.

    Kraft is quite happy to now run the Revs as if we are the Remora and MLS is the WhiteShark.
     
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  10. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am not sure that this is the right thread for this, but regarding the deconstruction article and the whatever comes next I really think that time and absence have made AJ Soares a better player. Kind of like how Eric Lichaj became a better USMNT option in the past because he was not called in for years and most recently because he was not part of the Costa Rica home loss and the game at Honduras. That might be a bad example, but I hope you get my point.

    IMHO, the absence of Soares has very little to do with the Revs slide. What he brought to the table should be easily replaceable, but just not for the Revs. Worse, his departure was a surprise to the one group of people who needed to be on top of the situation. The loss of Soares only needs to be mentioned to demonstrate how poorly Mike Burns does his job.

    The article does not speak enough o what Jones brought to the team.

    I recall reading what a good job the Revs did courting Delamea. I wonder what his thoughts are as the end of his first year in New England comes to a close? Would he recommend the Revs to others back home? Would he recommend other teams in MLS? What would he like to see improved?
     
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  11. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Agreed
     
  12. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With a game tomorrow, they won't make a move now. If they are going to fire Heaps, it would be after the SKC game, or, more likely, October 1st, when they don't play again until October 15th.
     
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  13. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, the Soares situation was more of an example of a decent (not great) player who would have been good to keep around, but the Revs under-valued him, and didn't even have a clue that he had better paying options out there. It would be one thing if they made a conscious decision because they thought he could be upgraded upon (and then they actually went out and got a better CB).But they should not have been surprised that he left.
     
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  14. CynicRev

    CynicRev New Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I would argue, the message that "this is unacceptable" would carry more weight with the team and fans if it were immediate. What if the Revs win vs KC??? Technically we've won 3 of the last 4 = WE'RE IN OUR LATE SEASON SURGE FOR THE PLAYOFFS!!! I think the majority of us would agree the 0-7 drubbing is more the rule rather than the exception.

    I assume your arguing that it would be less disruptive if the Interim Coach and Team had the most time to adjust in the post-heaps era. I would ask, what are we afraid to disrupt? The absolute worst case is we miss the playoffs and enter a rebuilding year...this seems to be the inevitable outcome regardless, my larger fear would be somehow Heaps & Co do just enough to maintain the status quo and we slide into year 7 of our downward slide to oblivion.
     
  15. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's my concern with firing Heaps now. If he does get axed, his replacement is either Soehn or Llamosa. I kind of doubt either of them would be interested unless there was some chance they could get the job permanently. Is that something anyone wants?
     
  16. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Agreed - I remember being shocked when I read those quotes. And then infuriated when I saw Heaps' quotes that they are always looking a window ahead...
     
  17. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to be clear, I'm not arguing anything. I want Heaps gone yesterday.

    I'm just speculating on how the team would handle it if they do decide to make a move (which unfortunately is not a given).
     
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  18. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000

    So true.

    It is a global talent pool, and a global battle to secure the talent.

    You need an army to win a battle, especially when you need to cover much of the globe. Revs don't have one. (Hint: have enough scouts, as at least one branch of the army...)

    You also need to recognize which battle you are in - one of Feldspar's points - and the Revs don't seem to recognize it.

    This is where I think the Krafts are the primary liability - it seems that they want to believe that a Belichick-equivalent person or person(s) on the Revs side of the house should be able to do what has worked on the Pats, despite some significant differences in the respective global ecosystems of the two teams.

    That's a function of the Krafts' more-than-arms-length distance from the Revs franchise operations, and likewise their distance from the detailed context of what it takes to RUN (as opposed to simply OWN) a successful soccer franchise/asset in a global marketplace.

    [Sure, there's a good dose of conjecture mixed into that. Possible that JK is intimately and regularly involved in RUNNING the Revs. But if that is the case, then he's (also, like Bilello and Burns) not very good in terms of delivering on-field quality.]
     
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  19. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Revs are like the Celtics getting a couple of guys who can skate really fast, since it's such a good quality to have for the other team they share the building with.
     
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  20. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    They'll be interested in being an interim head coach--same thing happened with Houston and Wade Barrett last year, who didn't get the full job but at least had a chance, which is all a Soehn or Llamosa would want.

    The main thing is Heaps has to go right away. Immediately. Preparing for the 2018 season should have begun after the drubbing Wednesday night. With Heaps out, the organization can finally start evaluating all of its players with an eye toward the off-season, and begin conducting a true (and public) coaching search in earnest.

    Other than not firing him, nothing would be worse than leaving his firing until November or December. The Revs move slowly enough on things as it is.
     
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  21. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Keeping Heaps until his contract expires. Then trying to bring someone in for less money.
     
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  22. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But that's my point, do you want them to have a chance? What happens if they do well and the Kraft's decides to keep them?

    If a fresh start is needed, they're not it.
     
  23. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    If the Revs were smart - they would be looking and courting new coaches now(looking a window ahead), maybe even identifying the candidate behind closed doors. That would give that new coach (or prospective coaches) a chance to be watching this team closely and starting to think of the recommendations they will make that will have to happen.

    The ideal would be to fire him early (they would have to pay out his contract anyway if they kept him to the end of the season). The key about firing early is that it sends a message to the players, and to us FANS!.

    Then you let Soehn just keep the ship afloat for the last couple of games (they would have to pay him anyway)

    You know Krafts - always worrying about the bottom line. If they bring in a new coach too early that means 2 salaries - yikes!!! A thought just struck me - if the Revs are paying for Heaps Pro License and he hasn't finished yet - would they worry that they would "lose" that invested money. OMG - I couldn't even imagine if that factored into the equation.

    That sends a clear message to the players that they better step up, or they are going to be cut/traded/lose playing time.

    Then you announce the new coach - who has basically been in the job already whether on the oficial payroll or not. That new coach has got to challenge the Kraft way of building this team from first team to youth.

    The problem with all this is that it means the rest of the organization has been given plenty of info that they are staying. Otherwise, Jonanthan Kraft has to be doing this all by himself.

    Like you said, the Revs move slowly enough, that this seems like a pipe dream. Unless they nuke the whole thing (which they won't do since it will be an admission of everything that has been written about them - worst owners, least ambitious, MLS 1.0, etc), we are looking at yet another wasted year of the organization in 2018 - with or without Heaps.
     
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  24. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #HeapsOut #FireBurns
     

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