I have repped many comments in this discussion. I don't have it in me right now to reply directly to those statements that I find distressing. For all of you whom I've repped: please know that I respect and support your powerful words on behalf of LGBTQIA rights and on behalf of the openly lesbian players on the U.S. women's soccer team. I'm white, male, heterosexual, Jewish, 72 years old. Writer, teacher, and political activist living in New York City and using my real name. (I detest Internet/social media anonymity.) I'm proud to say that I recently was part of the Queer Liberation March in New York honoring the 50th anniversary of the Stonewall Rebellion. I marched because I've been lucky enough to have many wonderful queer friends, some living and some deceased. One of the latter was an Oscar-nominated actor who never came out. It's too late to make a better world for him, but not too late to speak out for full acceptance of everyone who is queer.
What the hell does any of that have to do with being willing to stand up for gay rights ourselves? What kind of perverse whataboutism are you trying to puke out here? Edit: BTW. Where has anyone argued about getting behind the USSF? Literally nobody is arguing that. This is about supporting the humanity of gay (and all lgbt) people.
For the most part, this has been a respectful and open discussion and I certainly hope that continues. That said, I have deleted a few posts that were more tonally problematic (or widely interpreted as such). Otherwise, carry on!
Yes, as you said, a lot of people don't get bogged down with that. The majority of people don't have to be bogged down because they are protected equally, they are in the majority. But i'm still shocked that people here cannot understand why these issues, such as equal protections on a Federal level for LGBT or Equal pay is an important issue to so many and an entirely American issue to fight for. You may "segment" things in your life, but the reality is nothing is completely segregated. Churches are very political, sports have always been political. Ask team USA hockey, Russians, Nazi Germany, Cuban athletes, Tommie Smith, Serena Williams, etc. As I said earlier; If you are offended by this team protesting or taking a knee for equality BUT not upset that millions of American's, including Rapinoe, aren't actually equal in this country then that says a lot more about that current state of our country and you, than it does Rapinoe or this team.
You have equated rainbow numbers with the humanity of gays and gay rights. For some reason, I thought the USWNT were employees of USSF. For some reason, I thought the uniforms were from USSF. For some reason, I thought we were discussing a member of a contractually closed circle working for the USSF and her Twitter about someone who chose to walk away from USSF. At some point, discussing USSF and their motives are fair game which I guess is whataboutism.
I imagine USSF has the pull to stamp out slurs in stadiums if they really wanted. This is not something new, the chant has been heard for 25 years.
I’ll go back to this over and over and over again..... what good does having politics, religion, sexuality within soccer serve? None. And I don’t appreciate the comment to bucket me in the category of not caring about equality... that’s BS. I haven’t made one comment on here implying I don’t care about equality. I’m saying all that should have no bearing on what happens on a soccer field. Stop trying to use all of that as a crutch to defend players who “claim they want unity” and then in the next breath talk about exclusion.
"Whataboutism" and "#bothsides" are rhetorical cudgels designed to completely shut down any discussion.
The scheduling of Mex for a friendly really exposes the hypocrisy of the Fed. Unlike GC, this is a completely voluntary move. And, it's a money grab. Just like they've exposed the rainbow numbers to be. If the Fed gave a rats ass about LGBTQIAPK issues, they'd never schedule Mex for friendlies. In fact, given the women's outspokenness on LGBTQIAPK issues, their silence regarding the fed scheduling Mex is surprising. Imagine if the Fed scheduled the women against a team whose fans screamed "Dyke!" through out the match. They'd probably, rightfully, boycott. So, why the silence about Mex? It reveals the rainbow numbers to be a cheap attempt to sell jerseys.
That would be silly. There are many Christians - a rapidly growing segment - that support gay rights. No one would ever come up with such a bad idea.
Are you making a generalized, stereotyping slur against Christians? Cause it seems like it. Ask the gay parents at my church whether we, as a church, "celebrate homosexuality," whatever that means.
Uh, I think you got 2 things wrong there. Gay rights are less favored among African American Christians than white. And, I would not say most Christians agree with Jaelene. As a strong supporter of gay rights, I think that as a matter of freedom of speech and religion, Hinkle should be able to decline to participate in a match where those are worn without penalty. But, it's not a decision I would make. I'd wear the jersey proudly.
I understand what you mean but orcrist has been a great contributor to this thread and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. This is a topic that brings out plenty of emotion. Hinkle's motivations and actions have been discussed which is fair in a thread that has her name. I believe USSF's motivations should also be discussed. This is the organization that pays players, picks uniforms and derives income from many sources. All of this should be on the table, good and bad. Harris' motivations should be discussed as well. I don't understand attacking Hinkle for statements she never made but I am not part of the Twitter culture by choice. Her tweet makes no sense to me. She had plenty of time to call out Hinkle but only did it at a time where she was immune to criticism. Why?
If I recall correctly, we had a discussion on Big Soccer somewhere way back when as to whether when Robbie Rogers was a national team player, he should file a grievance against US Soccer for doing nothing about a hostile work environment during games against Mexico. I think I compared it to the action that Bryan Cox took against the NFL for racial abuse he took at a game in Buffalo.
It is precisely because I anticipated a response like yours that I posed the question. Your religious fanaticism regarding this question leads you to label those with whom you disagree as bigots so that you don't have to address the merits of differences of view.
First, I said very clearly that people here are MORE upset about a team voicing their opinions THAN the fact that they don't have full rights. I never said you don't care about "equality". If you supported this teams unified message, why wouldn't you be happy to support them? To answer your first question. "What good does having politics, religion, sexuality within soccer serve?" I don't fully understand what you're trying to ask or stating. I have a few thoughts on the subject thought on why certain people and governments used sports to their good, or bad, depending on who you ask. First, for things like the WC or Olympics it's a huge platform and you have everyone's attention. Despite what places like Fox News tells you (and I know this because I watch Fox News), sports has always been political and always will be. No social change has ever occurred in silence. No social change can occur in the darkness. It's completely logical for people to make political claims, even for our Country with our Hockey win over Russia (when we had Americans who understood Russia was our enemy). The list is literally endless. Are you upset black athletes raised their fists in support of Civil Rights? Isn't this is all fairly common sense though? Do you @puttputtfc @y-lee-coyote really not know this? Because it feels like people's real issue here is not that this team is speaking up, but what they are speaking up about. I don't think many people here actually read anything and it's become quiet apparent that facts do not change people's minds. People here seem so emotionally tied to old constructs and are unable to think past themselves... Final thought, once you win a World Cup for America, you will have the microphone to talk all you want. Until you win a WC or Olympic Gold, maybe listen more to what the Champs are saying.
First off, you know what I’m stating. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? Keep sensitive topics out of sports that have zero bearing on the results of that sport. Second, you talk about “change”...and having to speak up for change. Uhhhh...what exactly has Rapinoe changed? Or what will change that she’s going to get credit for? Lol...I read everything. And my takeaway from your posts...and the length of them is that YOU are emotionally tied to your thoughts on this and can’t seem to separate sports from politics, religion and sexuality. I’ve said my opinions on this, and it gives me tired head that people see this with blinders on simply because they have a personal connection to what some of these players on this team say because of personal experiences.
Don't you find your statement hypocrite based on the fact that Megan Rapinoe was kneeling on US National anthem just like that moron Colin Kaepernick. She should have been banned from the team forever. As Donald Trump said - If you don't like our country get the hell out of here.
No, actually, we have not only read some of your ideas, complaints and suggestions but many of us have responded to them directly. Even if they are completely silly, such as, why doesn't the Federation have a "Straight Pride Flag Jersey." Do you honestly not know the changes the WNT have already achieved? FIFA has already promised more $ for the next Women's WC The Federation is being sued Huge corporations are now getting in on the battle to promote their agenda, directly because of this team. Every news outlet discussed the income equalities and other inequalities between the men and women. The list is a lot longer... go ahead and find some of that information for yourself.
Can't speak for y-lee but this is completely wrong. Let's look at facts. Preacher posts old video of Hinkle and makes claims. Harris attacks Hinkle. That is what happened. I don't do Twitter but this is the type of behavior you try to grow out of in junior high. Hinkle walked away from the team over personal beliefs. She will never wear the jersey again. Why is that not enough? Why can't she live her life the way she wants? This is the first time a coworker has has a problem with her and the timing and way it was handled was ridiculous. Not everyone views rainbow numbers as some sacred act or display that should never be questioned. I see them as cynical USSF pandering and explained why. Should I assume you are okay with gay slurs in stadiums? Just because you play at a high level does not mean you are immune from criticism or your opinion is a fact. No American has played at a higher level than Jermaine Jones and I doubt you want his views on gays to be the norm.
Ok, let's start over. I already posted this. You didn't respond to the original post or say how it was wrong, so I'll give you another shot. Your "facts" are wrong, buddy. 1. Joelene first made this topic public. 2. Joelene posted her anti-gay messages first. 3. Joelene then sat down with a TV crew for a 6 minutes special, before anyone on the team discussed this publically. that was her choice. the 700 Club which is famously anti-LGBT. Joelene wanted this to be be public. Are you arguing this? answer me, please. 4. Yes, a prominent anti-gay blogger attacked the WNT this week, a year+ after it happened. 5. Now, ONE member of the WNT defended themselves publicly for the first time making the important point that the team is very religious, very inclusive and that is NOT why Hinkle is on the team.
When you say "we" do you mean you and me? Cause that sounds like a conversation I'd have been part of. And, ya, that's crazy to think of an out guy playing in that environment. The Fed should have the guys wear the rainbow numbers in the Mexico friendly. It seems such an obvious thing to do. Well, any Fed that has gay pride iconography on their jerseys should never ever schedule Mexico. But, if they do, then that would be the time to rock it.