Remember: These are only rumors! One source has told me that the Rowdies' FO is negotiating with the City of St. Petersburg to purchase the site of Al Lang Stadium, level it, and then build a SSS. Another source has told me that Mark Mahaffey (local developer & philanthropist - The Mahaffey Theater is named after his family) is looking to undertake the redevelopment of the Al Lang Stadium site and build a Soccer-Specific Stadium, which will then be leased to the Rowdies. No other details have been given. These rumors, if true, do not surprise me since the club has gathered plenty of support from the local community in downtown St. Pete, as well as local politicians (including St. Pete Mayor, Bill Foster).
OK, now that you have clarified a bit, it makes sense. All the cryptic comments before were a bit misleading. The four year contract is now in a bit of context. As an outsider, the club seems to be pretty happy with being in St. Pete. Even more so than it being the best of a batch of less than ideal choices. I know that plenty of folks aren't sold on being in St. Pete long term, but if this is where they can get a stadium built and put down roots, then I think people will be surprised how well this turns out. I could envision a north-south pitch with a taller stand on the west side and a rather short east side stand. That would give most of the fans a beautiful view of the water. If this does come to fruition, I hope they do demolish the existing structure and start fresh. It would be nice to see them figure out how to sell tickets first, of course.
If this happens then the Rowdies are not learning from what the Rays are going through right now. I like St. Pete, it's a great city and downtown area but if people aren't going to baseball games at the highest level in the world (MLB) why would people go to SOCCER games (at a new stadium right down the street from the Trop) of a club that is division 2 in the USA? We all have to realize that though soccer is very high up on our "to do" list, but to majority of residents in the bay area soccer isn't even on the radar. Hell, when I was a kid I didn't even know soccer existed till I was 13-14 years old, even then I didn't play it let alone acknowledge it. Our goal is to introduce and try to get people to games. IMO, putting a stadium away from majority of residents in the bay area will not help draw people to games. If a new stadium is built in St. Pete, the rowdies will naturally get a bump in attendance for a year or so but then it will drop off like any professional sports team. People can't tell me the club is doing better in St. Pete because there aren't enough butts in the seats. And you can't compare attendance figures from the first year because the sample sizes aren't similar. The first year there were many weekday games etc. which have a huge effect on attendance, but now every game is on the weekend which I'm glad the rowdies learned from. Last year the rowdies won the NASL championship. Have we seen a major increase in butts in seats? No we haven't. So at this point championships aren't really doing much to getting butts in the seats. I believe that if the Rowdies settle in St. Pete they will remain a 2nd or 3rd class citizen in this entertainment filled bay area and will continue to be ignored by majority of the citizens. I will continue to go to rowdies game (whenever time lets me) and support them financially and spiritually but the status quo needs to change.
Let me clarify: These are only rumors. There is nothing to prove that this will happen. We've had many before that have led nowhere.
I understand that you live on the east side of Tampa and St. Pete isn't exactly convenient for you and others, but if this does go down (and it is just rumors) then a new stadium in St. Pete is better than no new stadium. As far as being 2nd or 3rd class entertainment options......they will always be 3rd rate no matter where they play. This is minor league SOCCER we are talking about. Niche sport at best. IF we held out for MLS in a downtown Tampa location, we would move up to 2nd class at best. I would reckon that if this does happen, then we are looking at a 8 to 10 thousand seat stadium. I would be very surprised if there isn't enough folks in Pinellas and west/central Hillsborough to put 7 or 8 k in the seats.
It's not a matter of how many people there are because those people are there now. Population is an indicator of traffic and not much else. Very, very few D2 clubs have ever averaged 7-8k. This front office does not appear to be able to get halfway there, I don't see how a new stadium on the Pinellas side males up the difference. The sport, the league and the brand are not relevant enough to enough of the people who are there now to get 7-8k on a semi-regular basis.
We agree that this crew doesn't have the tools or skills to get that done. There is a way to get it done though. You are very right that few D2 clubs have ever averaged 7-8k. The list includes Portland, Rochester, Montreal, San Antonio....anyone else I have missed? Orlando is D3, but we could include them as well. Of that select group, two went to MLS, one imploded and one has a chance at MLS. A mixed bag for sure, but I would hope that over the next five years that drawing 7-8k in D2 becomes more common. As more organizations figure it out, their expertise will spread.
It's not the marketing, it's the cat food, sir. The cats don't like it. It's not a matter of "figuring it out." If it was a formula that could be replicated, do you think Rochester and Montreal and Portland and San Antonio keep the secret in a mayonnaise jar on Funk & Wagnall's porch? At some point people are going to run out of excuses and take a look at the product. We have had D2 soccer here for more than a week and a half. This isn't like the Industrial Revolution, where it takes time to make it from Europe to the rest of the world. It's not like people are wandering around looking for the Lost City of El Dorado that may or may not exist.
All true, but don't you think if D2 was presented in a proper facility, that it could be sold in Tampa Bay? Stadiums don't sell tickets, but playing in ALF is like running a race with leg weights. I wasn't implying that successful clubs are keeping their expertise to themselves, but rather the NASL is providing a stable platform for D2 to eventually flourish. Now the crap could hit the fan we know, but as this league grows into a stronger, stable entity clubs like the Rowdies I believe will rise with that tide. The Rowdies could still sink, but we do need to give them some credit. They know how to put a pretty decent product on the field. I would hope that eventually the light bulb will go off and they will hire someone as talented on the business side as they have in Hill on the player side.
Clarifying your statement: You think it is a bit optimistic to think that D2 clubs will someday draw 7-8k routinely? Or the Rowdies (in St. Pete) specifically.
I think it will be a while before that happens "regularly" in D2. Look, I think the lower levels are realizing stuff MLS realized a while back: you have to have your own yard, you have to present the sport in a proper way, and you have to make an effort to be a part of your community and have roots. I think that's trickling down. Soccer - as a spectator sport - has never been more popular in this country. I expect it will continue to grow, though not exponentially and not veryveryveryfast. The USSF standards that (ostensibly) keep the Mike Fields of the world out of the 2nd division will pay longer-term dividends. As people realize it is possible to create a club that is meaningful to its community, but that it takes patience and a lot of money, I think clubs will be more relevant and will present what they have as a total soccer/entertainment package in a much more meaningful way. And that will help grow the game and fan interest. But it's going to be awhile before 7-8k is commonplace in D2, and it's not happening at Al Lang with this bunch, who can't even figure out how to get the socks right.
Good stuff and I agree that it will take some time. If the NASL doesn't make any really boneheaded moves, steady growth over the long haul will yield dividends some day. Thanks for being on the same page with me about the socks, the stars, #7. At least they are getting closer. This year's kits (minus the socks) are really quite nice. So there is always hope.
A proper stadium, even in St. Pete, at least takes away that objection. And it is a fairly common objection around here. "The Rowdies play in a baseball stadium, I'm not going to pay to see that". But how much of an increase in attendance could the Rowdies reasonably expect by simply building a stadium? 500 more fans per game? 500 tickets sold x $14 avg ticket price = $7000 x 14 home games = $98000 in additional ticket revenue per season. That is probably low balling the average sold ticket price, considering the prices went up this year. Then figure in the fact that the Rowdies would (hopefully and I assume) keep parking receipts and concessions sales. Also one could assume a decent rise in merchandise sales and sponsorship money. That would get us to just over 4k tickets sold per game and a significant increase in overall revenue, but we'd be paying for a stadium. I don't want them playing long term in St. Pete, but I do think they could reach 5k in average attendance at Al Lang eventually. In a proper stadium and with more experience on the sales force and more time to grow the brand, they could certainly approach that number. But I don't see a St. Pete based stadium translating to fantastic attendance, even long term, as I don't think St. Pete will ever be the best choice if the Rowdies want to to hit their full potential as a D2 soccer team.
Yes, I think it would be folly to build a new stadium on the Pinellas side. You might get a good deal on it, and it might even be picturesque and it could be a fabulous yard. But it would be on the wrong side of the Bay. And I'm not just saying that as someone who grew up in Tampa.
.... so like every minor league sports team in a major league market? Rowdies fans should be content to have a SSS, not concerned with which side of the bridge it's on.
That is short sighted. As Rowdies fans we should want to be in the best possible situation and location. Playing in Tampa is very arguably the best situation and location. If we get a SSS in St. Pete of course we will support it.
Playing in Tampa would probably be good for Tampa, although hockey hasn't seemed to help the atmosphere... of course, hockey is not soccer. and hockey doesn't have a Mob in the house...
A Soccer-Specific Stadium in St. Pete is better than what we had soccer-wise from 2002 to 2010! NEVER FORGET!
I meant it hasn't helped it become a place to go hang out AKA downtown St Pete. Ybor City? yes, Channelside? not so much. Downtown Tampa? forget about it... unless the Lightning is in the house....
Do you actually ever go to DT Tampa? It has made MAJOR strides in the last 4-6 years. Particularly around the area of Curtis Hixon Park and along the river front. Take a visit any Friday and Saturday and you will see what I mean. It is not a Miami or Chicago by any stretch, or even Austin, but it has come very far way from where it was. Of course anywhere is up from nothing. That said, I do not think the Lightning had much to do with it. The addition of Skypoint and other residential buildings helped more than anything.
So let's built a SSS in downtown St. Pete because it is a place to hang out at. Though I understand your logic, I still think keeping the club away from the majority of the population in the area is making it worse for fans to go to games. The die hard fans will go to a game no matter where it is at but the people on the fence are the once that need to be persuaded to cross the bridge and go to a game. A SSS would be sweet to have but not in St. Pete.