People keep mentioning these out of character wins vs Germany and Holland pre-world cup 06. When else has that ever happened in our history? Almost never. As far back as I can remember, this, right now, is Italy pre-world cup and we always put forward a good effort in the cup. Maybe the team isn't as talented as the 90, 94, 98, or 02 ones, even 06, but how quick are we to forget that of those years the 06 one was probably the least talented as well, in terms of on-paper. 1990 and 1994 had better midfielders, defenders and strikers, 98 and 02 had better forwards. Either way, 06 was won with good team work, a bit of luck and opportunity at the right time and the right mentality. All those talented teams of the 90's never won anything, when they probably should have, especially in 1990 and probably in 1994. I'd ranke 02 > 06 as well as far as talent. So perhaps it works in our favor to be underrated, to be playing half arsed in the friendlies and and be taking a lesser talented team. Maybe it will hit form, and maybe it will not, but don't forget that we need luck too. All teams do. So cursing this team out isn't going to do anyone any favors at all. The reverse psyche approach is outdated and worn. It's not just skill, luck and formation, but right timing too that carries teams far. Was Greece super talented in 2004? Yet they knock out Czech, France and Portugal 2x. Let's wait and see if one of our players can hit form ala Schillachi in 1990 because after all these pre tournament friendlies are just typical Italy.
I disagree, before nesta went down and de rossi got suspended, italy arguably had 8 world class players in all in their primes in the starting 11, totti, toni, gattuso, pirlo, zambrotta, nesta, canna, and buffon (with buffon, pirlo, gattuso, zambro, nesta, totti, and canna all arguably top 50 or so and some much higher at their roles all time) with camo, a precocious de rossi, and grosso the only non-world class ones, but still very good...plus really good veterans like del piero and inzaghi on the bench...'98 midfield was way too unbalanced, too many cloggers, and '94 had some players who were fading a la donadoni, and players that didn't fit as well together or had to push certain players out wide. '06 on paper to me beats both those squads, kills '86 and '10, slightly edges '02 and pretty much ties '90 imho. but anyways, you're right that players have to step up when there are injuries and suspensions, as those always happen at any world cup. '06 nesta goes down, de rossi suspended and totti at 70% (if that) and fortunately some of the role players like perrotta, materazzi, and iaquinta came up huge at big times.
Spot on. 2006 squad imo was a very well balanced squad and not far from the best Italy teams of past 30 years.
Had Grosso not pulled the penalty in 06 and we lost to Australia, we probably would see the midfield in a different light as the forwards who had the least contribution of all years thus far. France also controlled our midfield with ease in the 2nd half of the final. It was good, but I'm giving the edge to the 90 and 94 midfield. For the record, I never said 98 or 02 had a better midfield, but attack and defense for me was better from 1990 to 2002 over 06, and we could have won in any of those years with the same luck we had in 06. You just have to look at some of the names on the bench in 98 and 02 to know the attack was better than 06. So with a bit of luck, some group cohesion and hard work, anything is possible. That's all I'm saying. We're all getting down on this team, but are forgetting that we need luck as do all teams who win on our side. Time to start putting some good vibes into it folks I don't see the point in negativity, win or lose, it's pretty useless.
February 23 1982 France Italy 2-0 Friendly April 14 1982 East Germany Italy 1-0 Friendly May 28 1982 Switzerland Italy 1-1 Friendly February 05 1986 Italy West Germany 1-2 Friendly March 26 1986 Italy Austria 2-1 Friendly May 11 1986 Italy China 2-0 Friendly February 21 1990 Netherlands Italy 0-0 Friendly March 31 1990 Switzerland Italy 0-1 Friendly May 30 1990 Italy Greece 0-0 Friendly February 16 1994 Italy France 0-1 Friendly March 23 1994 Germany Italy 2-1 Friendly May 27 1994 Italy Finland 2-0 Friendly June 03 1994 Italy Switzerland 1-0 Friendly June 11 1994 Italy Costa Rica 1-0 Friendly April 22 1998 Italy Paraguay 3-1 Friendly June 02 1998 Sweden Italy 1-0 Friendly April 17 2002 Italy Uruguay 1-1 Friendly May 18 2002 Czechia Italy 1-0 Friendly May 31 2006 Switzerland Italy 1-1 Friendly June 02 2006 Italy Ukraine 0-0 Friendly March 03 2010 Cameroon Italy 0-0 Friendly June 03 2010 Mexico Italy 2-1 Friendly June 05 2010 Switzerland Italy 1-1 Friendly
The the new official motto of the Lippi fan boy club, "Hey who needs talent, we tied the Swiss in 2006 and 1982 and look what happened"
Yeah you're right. The likes Milito, Pique, Maicon, Mascherano and Robben are no match for the world class Iaquinta, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Gattuso and Camoranesi. The fact is that my friend. You're arguement is there was nothing for Lippi to bring from home, yet you ignore that your WC hero's are hardly world class anymore. Since when has Lippi only called up only world beaters? The same way the Mister has taken chances on players like Cossu and Maggio, he could have given other players chances. Besides the fact that some of his moves were political, Lippi has been lazy in constructing this squad. we could have had a little more vigor. I don't agree that this is an accurate represenation of Italy's footballing talent And speaking of world class, here are 2 players that would have changed the dynamic of this whole team : [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcuE1iNJakI"]YouTube- Francesco Repice - GOL TELECOMANDATO di MICCOLI in Juventus-Palermo 0-2 (28/2/2010)[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BZp07l5mzA"]YouTube- Emanuele Dotto - GOL di CASSANO in Sampdoria-Juventus 1-0 (21/3/2010) VIDEO[/ame]
Grande Cassano e Miccoli. Lippi's YES MEN are always looking for excuses instead of actually looking at why this team is crap.
I really wish one of the Lippi fanboys would actually attempt to challenge DDR's post from a few pages ago.
Enouh about Miccoli, they guy is injured, so he wouldn't be here regardless. Cassano? Err, that's a different story...
Hahaha Yeah, I'm the one who is delusional. You Lippi fan boys went from saying that this team didn't have any problems to saying that all we needed was time. Lippi would sort it out. We're world champions, we have experience. We don't need any youth or flair. Cassano is a headcase, Miccoli should've kept his mouth shut...blah blah blah. Now, it's that Serie A doesn't have any talent, any other manager would've picked the same players, our player pool just isn't deep enough. Excuses Excuses Excuses but what can you expect from fans who support a club with the name LADRI
So if the consensus seems to be that the talent pool is thin, why are the majority of posters here so cynical? Do you guys really believe that Balotelli and Cassano would have made a world of difference? Miccoli, even if not picked is injured now so there's no use complaining about his absence. But is being cynical going to help Italy play better?
I don't see any consensus on the idea that we have a low talent pool. Just another excuse from the Lippi faithful. I agree that we are lacking muliple superstars, but I won't agree with the idea that this squad is the best Serie A could produce. Why should we stop talking about Miccoli?(Yes, he's injured now, but why no call-up before?) Here's a player that has something that this team desperately needs, something that should be obvious to anyone watching this squad post WC06, yet he can't even get a call-up. But we're stuck with bums, some starting, who haven't even merited a call up, let alone a starting position. Pepe and Iastinka over Balotelli and Cassano? Hahaha
Well I'm not Lippi faithful, as you put it, but the talent pool is thinner now than in recent years though I know that this doesn't always = success or failure. If that was the only equation then we should have won in 90, 94, 98, 02. As another example, take Spain. They've been hailed as one of the most talented teams for years going into the World Cup for many editions now, yet that wasn't always enough. Then you have a Greek team take the Euro's with who? My point is that talent is necessary, but it's not the only ingredient. With all the talent we had last time, we still needed a bit of luck to pull the cup. With all the talent we had in 02, we had no luck to go further than we did. However you perceive this team, it is what it is now so the best we can hope for is that they mold together into a strong unit and have a bit of luck sent their way. Moaning about who's there and who isn't there is a waste of time now. It's not going to change. Do you honestly believe all you have to do is put Balotelli and Cassano in the team and it would magically become unstoppable? Who else is missing that you need to have, outside of Miccoli? He's injured, even if he wasn't going to be called it's a moot point. Sometimes people need to accept that if there is a personality conflict between player and manager, it's going to affect the team. Again, I have to ask that given the team we have now, is moaning about it going to make them better? If so, sign me up. Otherwise, stop crying over spilt milk, it's not going to change anything at this point in the game.
QUESTION: ANSWER: .... The World Cup is about to start and we are still talking about those not called up. At this point, who cares? I'm excited to root for the players who are going to be there.
^^ Bravo! That's really the only thing we can do as fans of Gli Azzurri. Hope for the best, wish the players nothing but luck and God willing they form a strong cohesive unit. Everything else is past history at the moment.
Yes, I honestly do believe that our best players would make this team better. Must be a hard concept to grasp. Along with dropping these potential starters (Cam, Gattuso, Iastinka, Zamb, Canna, and Pepe) who shouldn't even be on this team. Plus, moving Pirlo to the bench. And that Miccoli injury crap doesn't answer the question. He wasn't picked when he was healthy, why? The national team isn't a club with an owner. They killed his career at Juve, and they took away the national team from him. Simple as that.
Your posts would have more merit if they didn't include the Anti Juve sentiments that you continue to dwell on. Will you be cheering against The Azzurri so you can prove that you are right ?
It's not a hard concept to grasp, and I've basically acknowledged it already. You haven't answered if you believe that adding Cassano and Balotelli would make this team the talented team you're looking for. You've mentioned a whole slew of players that should be dropped, but for who? Moving Pirlo to the bench? Come on. Again, they're all moot points because it's done, the team is what it is now. But what about everything else I've said? Are all those points (and there aren't many of them) hard to grasp for you? Here, I'll repeat "Well I'm not Lippi faithful, as you put it, but the talent pool is thinner now than in recent years though I know that this doesn't always = success or failure. If that was the only equation then we should have won in 90, 94, 98, 02. As another example, take Spain. They've been hailed as one of the most talented teams for years going into the World Cup for many editions now, yet that wasn't always enough. Then you have a Greek team take the Euro's with who? My point is that talent is necessary, but it's not the only ingredient. With all the talent we had last time, we still needed a bit of luck to pull the cup. With all the talent we had in 02, we had no luck to go further than we did. However you perceive this team, it is what it is now so the best we can hope for is that they mold together into a strong unit and have a bit of luck sent their way. Moaning about who's there and who isn't there is a waste of time now. It's not going to change." Get it? It's done. The team is what it is. Talent is necessary, but it's one ingredient. There are more as I pointed out above. So the team is picked. It is what it is. And I ask again, what is moaning about it going to prove? Like I said earlier, if there is some correlation with moaning and winning, then sign me up.
My God, the extent to which people reach to make Miccoli a world class talent. He had a nice season, granted, but he plays for Palermo FFS, not Barcelona. Not one person here is saying that guys like Zambrotta, Gattuso, Cannavaro and some others truly deserve to start; but this fantasy that we have all this astounding talent at home is just comical. All you guys intent on trashing Lippi, go ahead; but you are all really reaching with your logic. And frankly, it's become tiresome; particularly with the idiots that are constantly trashing Juve as if they are somehow relevant to the conversation.