Many thanks to La Norte, who showed some passion behind the goal, and to the SEs, Sam's Army, actually any fans who showed up and made some noise. But let's face it. This was the homecoming for the team after the World Cup. It looked awful on TV. 1. The crowd was announced at 13,000 something but it looked like if was about 4000. My high school drew over 8000 for a football game on Saturday in freezing weather. This is our national team. DC had another rainy day for a game but really, the advance sale should have been twice that long before the forecasts came in. But you can't blame DC area fans from avoiding this game due to legitimate safety concerns. Guanacos have not been terribly well-behaved at RFK. Playing yet another game in a game-weary DC, against the Guanacos was a financial disaster and public relations disaster. We could have sold 30-40,000 tickets for a friendly in many places in the U.S. Even the Guanacos didn't seem to care as much as before. We ate lunch in a Salvadorean restaurant in Chicago yesterday and some of the customers knew about the game but didn't seem to care. 2. Once again, we appeared to be the visiting team. The Guanacos made more noise. 3. The pitch looked like a cow pasture. The first time I saw the RFK field up close last year I was appalled. It looked like a Third World nation's pitch. Why don't they resod it? Parts of it look like a chalkboard, other parts looked like mud. The U.S. spends more money on meticulously landscaping stadium turfs than the GNP of some countries. With most of the state of the art playing fields in the U.S. why do we play on this? Look at the players, like Armas, who blew out their knees on this cow pasture. Imagine what it costs us in image when foreigners or potential fans watch a game played in front of a tiny audience on a field lots of high schools would not tolerate. This was a big step backward. It's too bad because it doesn't have to be this way. Many cities are dying to host a game. Just my opinions.
Considering it rained for about a week here in DC I thought the field looked pretty good, I didn't notice any puddle like MLS Cup 96 in Foxboro (although they did have a tarp over it before game time). Most of the fans were tucked up in the 300 level on the non TV side to stay dry so hard to see them on tv. While not the worst weather I've watched a game in, (like MLS Cups 96 & 97) I'm not going to crap on people who wish not to catch pneumonia. As far as US support, well, I read on the NAS board that SA wasn't organizing anything because they were still weary from the WC and this game didn't mean anything (if the team's unofficial official supporter's club doesn't make plans well that should tell you something). I don't think if the venue was elsewhere people would have travelled for it (I wouldn't have travelled elsewhere to see El Sal vs US). Besides, haven't you beaten this dead horse in a thread in News and Analysis? K
No one has disputed it looked terrible on TV. This was a big step backward at a time when fans all over the country are dying to see a USMNT game K, I don't want to accelerate the dispute between the SEs and Sam's Army here. Realistically, fans within driving distance of a stadium provide 90-95 per cent of the attendance at national team games. You can't expect fly-ins to carry the day. I praised the fans who did show up whether they sought shelter or not. I never criticized anyone who sought shelter. That is your argument. I know that many DC fans share my concern about the state of the pitch. El salvador's national stadium has a better pitch than that!!!! Potential fans all over this land were waiting to see the team that stunned the world at the World Cup. After five months we get this?? It was a big step backward at a time we should be moving forward. We will probably plays El Salvador or another Central American team at RFK during the Gold Cup. The debacles just keep on coming.
I cannot dispute it because I did not see it on TV. I was in attendance. She didn't say you did. She was merely provided an explanation, from someone who was there, as to why on TV it looked like there were fewer people than there were. It's usually in very good shape. It drains very well and the groundskeeping staff are excellent. You may recall that, during the All-Star Game, the big puddles that formed when play resumed were largely gone by the end of the game. If the only time you saw it up close was last year's game against the Fire, keep in mind that there had been an all-day rock festival the week before and, as a result, needed to be resodded. Dave
Care to place a wager on the TV number to back this assertion up? I don't doubt there's a demand, but I think you are greatly overstating this.
Is it me or do others find it rich for someone to complain about the game attendance from the comfort of their living room? Tom you've carped on this game being at RFK and the opponent in several threads. Was that helpful in promoting the team and getting people to attend? If attendance is a concern did you encourage people from Chicago to go? You decided this game wasn't worth your while to attend why wasn't it OK for others to do the same? This was a meaningless friendly on ESPN against Sunday NFL games. For those who did attend, it was a lot of fun. I didn't feel like I was in a hostile stadium (and with everyone in rain gear it was hard to tell sometimes who people were cheering for). I saw many families with the adults in ES stuff and the kids in Landon jersies. I wasn't aware of any incidents in the stadium like I have at other games. K
I totally agree. I'm not sure which hurt attendance more, the USSF or the weather. For the first match in the US post-WC, those geniuses give us El Salvador in El Salvador Norte? US fans who live in the DC area know what that means, and many choose not to attend. The USSF knows this, and they insist on scheduling matches like that, with no advertising or promotion to speak of. It's hard enough to sell soccer in America, and short-sighted marketing decisions like this don't help. I'm glad the weather was lousy and kept the Salvadoran walk-up crowd down so the USSF doesn't cash in for selling the US out.
I watched the game on TV as well and while I was expecting more ES fans, I thought the U.S. supportors looked good. I heard quite a few pro-U.S. chants during the game and could tell that the U.S. players were being cheered on. When they did close-ups on the fans, it looked like everyone was having fun. Not a bad advertisement for U.S. soccer on a cold rainy day. Also, the banners looked good (esp. the 'Welcome Home Bruce'). I definitely wouldn't say that it was a 'big step backward' and it wasn't a 'homecoming' game for the Nats team - that was the all-star game, remember? It was a friendly, where both sides fielded their young players and the U.S. fans did a good job turning out in miserable weather (better than the ES fans, at least) That said, a friendly in Atlanta would be nice.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah! If you weren't at the game on Sunday - your part of the problem, not the solution! Why don't we move our nations capitol to Chicago?
I really wonder about the attendance count. It looked and felt like more than 14,000 (and the traffic getting out of the stadium felt like that there was more than that, too). There wasn't that much promotion of the game around town, but that seems to be par for the course. Maybe people aren't thinking of soccer in the middle of November. Also, I wonder whether most people realized that this was going to be a game without a lot of stars on either side. Still, it was quite an entertaining match, watching the younger players on both team trying to show their stuff. I though that Olson, Klein, Donovan and Barrett played particularly well. The pitched not only looked fine but it played fine, especially after two straight days of rain. I didn't notice anybody slipping or sloshing around. And thank you, saroccer, for your kind comments about the banners.
I saw the pitch up close at the qualifier on September 1, 2001. It was in pretty bad shape then. Does anyone know what the overnight TV ratings were for the game? I left my magnifying glass at home. To tell you the truth, it might not be a bad thing if they were low. I just don't see the casual or curious fan rallying behind THAT. The only problem is, more low ratings and ESPN won't even touch the USMNT. We will end up on PPV. The Gold Cup at DC next year is rumored to be on PPV.
What on earth are you talking about Thomas? I don't know what you are comparing the pitch to, but it was in fine shape. I was there, I saw it in person. Perhaps you should invest in a better TV. Of course the Gold Cup will be on PPV. When has it not been? The USSF does not control the Gold Cup, CONCACAF does. Rather, Inter-Forever (We Hate the USA) Sports does. And they sell the games to PPV operators. You seem to be the only one who believes the World Cup opened up a groundswell of support. It didn't. End of story. Thomas, I'll swear under oath you watched a different game than the one I attended. Sachin
Here are some photos of the field that day, take from the third row near midfield. The grass looks pretty good to me. http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/dslifton...+Qualifier+-+CSB+2001+Weekend&.src=ph&.view=t http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/dslifton...+2001+Weekend&.dnm=The+US+Players.jpg&.src=ph http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/dslifton...+CSB+2001+Weekend&.dnm=Both+teams.jpg&.src=ph http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/dslifton...+Qualifier+-+CSB+2001+Weekend&.src=ph&.view=t
Sachin, I have praised you and other hard core fans many times. La Norte looked and sounded good yesterday, as always. I think you were dealt a difficult hand. El Salvador in DC is not an easy gig for a US fan. DC fans whom I respect posted in the United forum about safety considerations with so many Guanacos in RFK. The attendance was lousy, but considering the lack of novelty of yet another USMNT game, fear of Guanacos, AND bad weather, you can't really criticize the DC fans. My gripe is with the USSF and people who defend the Foxboro-DC axis. The USSF used to try to make money by trying to sell tickets to ethnic groups living in the US. At one time they had no alternative, really. Now they do have an alternative and how do they reward loyal fans all over the country? They cater to the Guanacos. One of the nice things about Big Soccer is a few people will always attack something you didn't say, such as sheltered fans. I never said we had a bad team. I think Coach Arena picked some good, young talent and gave them a chance. The team looked good. Of course I tried to get people to go. I chipped in on travel threads and tried to help, as always with travel arrangements: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23054 You can deride me for watching in the comfort of my living room (with a screaming baby). Us Midwesterners don't have the luxury of driving to games like the East Coast fans. I do all I can. I went to 10 qualifiers and 5 World Cup games. For most of the other games, I tried to promote them, bumping threads and offering travel advice. Car pooling for the Jamaica WCQ was done in Miami California, and from this computer. It would have been easier if Foxboro fans had done it. DC is better because it has good supporters groups and tries to help out of town fans. But you have had enough games and you should be egalitarian enough to admit that. The USSF could have had a bigger payday an many places and dispelled the growing notion that the USMNT is part of coastal clique.
I knew that soccer "fans" would gloat over the very unfortunate circumstances we have here in Chicago, tap dancing on the not yet sealed coffin of an MLS franchise. We had a great venue until January, 2002. The London Financial Times reported after the 1994 World Cup that the consensus among foreign reporters was that Chicago was the best venue, a beautiful city with a good stadium walking distance from downtown. Foxboro was the worlst, primarily because of its location. I have not lobbied for Chicago, instead arguing other cities, such as Dallas should get a chance. You all know that the Burn and Fire are rivals but I put the USMNT interests first. Dallas should have gotten this game. If not Dallas, someplace other than the Same Old Places. I sincerely hope that DC United prospers and you don't have stadium problems. If they would resod the awful pitch and not be so strict about banners and parking lot sales, you would have a fine venue, near transport and with plenty of parking. I would never gloat if RFK was closed for 2 years and the loyal DC United fans were relegated to a small stadium in the suburbs. That would hurt the MLS and the soccer movement in this country. So gloat all you want and make cracks about Cardinal Stadium. That contributes to the perception that the "scene" is locked up in a coastal clique, who don't care whether soccer lives or dies in the heartland.
Maybe it was a lack of passion on their part due the meaningless nature of the game, but the Salvadorean fans were hardly menacing. 3 of my party sat in 120, but a friend and I felt confrontational and decided to sit amidst their fans a few sections over. Despite our obnoxious goal celebrations, their demeaner never turned sour. At the most they would just chuckle and spout stuff whenever we started chanting. After the first goal they just seemed resigned to their cervesas. At half time, we ended up dipping tobacco with a few guys behind us (which made one of them puke, I think) and having a conversation with them about immigration. The story was pretty much the same outside. We were surrounded in lot 8. And with every van load of opposing fans, it was all good natured after the first whistle, hiss, or rude hand gesture. None of the negative electricity of the Hondurans whatsoever. Which I found a little disappointing. Of course this wasn't anything near a WC qualifyer either. Sure, if you consider the monotonous droning of those cheap plastic horns to be a sign of passion...man, I hate those things. Otherwise, there was only the wave of footstomping and grunting that would pass through our section occasionally. It could be pretty impressive. but that's the way it is with fans who are able to act as one stadium-wide. Most fans outside of this country don't really need a section 120. It has very little to do with RFK, and a lot more to do with the mentality of the average US sports fan.
Tom flannigan is an ass. i could just say that and it would be enough. We're you not aware that it had been raining for 3 days straight? There are just not that many fans who would go see a soccer game in november, especially on a sunday. I didn't see your ugly ass there so shut the ************ up already. Let me guess, you were helping out the nielssen raitings at home.
Thanks for the insult. I see you are from DC. Press reports indicated DC had had heavy rains and that the USMNT had moved to a different field in the DC area for practice. Wasn't it raining on that field too? The heavy rains made the bad pich even worse. DC has been plagued with heavy rain for important games and you can't help that. Maybe the Gods are trying to tell us something! (gr) Not everyone can travel to games. For example, I was disappointed at the number of DC fans at the World Cup in Korea. I know it is a long way from Falls Church. Atouk, Kevin, Andy and Johnnie were there. I don't recall meeting any SEs in Korea, but I am sure some made the trip and more would have liked to. We do the best we can. Air travel is expensive. I agree. Chicago is to blame. We should have sent more people to DC for this game. It is our fault.
No problem ass, I met you in korea and that is the only reason why i insist you are an ass. You are a great US fan, but you are an ass nonetheless. i think we need to get ussoccer to try and help supporters groups from all mls cities to get to the national team games. How phat would that be, 10 sections side-by-side of us fans from all the clubs going nuts. I don't think the turnout is anyone's "fault." Fact is the game was a meaningless friendly against a shite county - you're simply not gonna get a lot of fans. When gold cup comes back numbers will go up. numbers will probably be astronomical for WCQ. stop bitching, we know you want a game in your beloved chicago and you better help find us united guys a place to stay when it happens, but enough already.
Kind of like you have done it to so many others on so many occassions? If you are so sure the TV ratings will be so small, where are these fans waiting to snap up tickets? Should we really bank our future on people who will only come to see a game live, but never watch on TV? You amaze me sometimes, what with your open support of violating alochol laws, your blatent disregard for the TOS which does not allow people to broadcast false information and your refusal to debate the issue at hand with people who actually come armed with facts. As far as I am concerned, there was a game on TV so it looked pretty damn good because a day with soccer is a good day indeed.