Is There Any Way to Get This Coach Fired?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Master O, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    1. I’ve seen McKennie make plenty of bad turnovers with Schalke. And it was his midfield turnover and failure to track back that cost us the goal in the Gold Cup.

    Weston is talented but inconsistent right now.

    2. Worth noting of the six guys you mentioned, three are hurt right now and did not play in this game or the Gold Cup.

    3. The US pool has talent, but isn’t as good. Mexico’s talent is in their mid to late 20s. They are experienced, strong, and there’s a ton of depth.

    The US pool has talent, but the talent is young. Those who do play are prone to mistakes, like bad backpasses or getting nutmegged.

    To be clear, I don’t hold Berhalter blameless. But I also think people are crazy if they think our pool is better than Mexico’s today.

    The team didn’t play well today, but I’m not shocked.
     
    Ghost and An Unpaved Road repped this.
  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I agree with Tata. But we’re in a thread asking about how we get Berhalter fired. That’s not what Tata was saying.
     
  3. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    I'm pretty certain that's the absolute last thing Tata wants.
     
    Namdynamo, DHC1, ChicagoVT and 1 other person repped this.
  4. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nahhh... that one is not going to fly with me. I’m all for experimenting in friendlies. And had we showed some promise but ultimately fell at the end, I wouldn’t be upset.

    Dave Sarachan experimented with what seemed to be a coherent strategy. Granted, he wasn’t the right man for the job, but he gets credit for “experimenting.” Berhalter is over complicating things and stuck in his own ways.
     
    DHC1 repped this.
  5. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    This is a good question. I said prior to the GC that I'd consider not making the final a fireable offense. Would it be fair to say the same of the Nation's League? It's not that I care about the Nation's League itself per se, but rather that it's probably the best proxy for qualifying. If we can take care of business against all non-Mexico teams in Nation's League, it seems likely that we'd in good shape for the Hex. If we can't take care of business and are eliminated prior to the final, I'd take that as a bad sign for qualifying and look to make a change at that point.
     
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don’t really get the difference aside from the fact that Sarachan bunkered against tough opponents to keep the score down and Berhalter is forcing a riskier situation.
     
  7. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The riskier situation is just dumb. Never would I say it’s a good idea to play out of the back in our defensive third under a high press against a technically superior team. That’s a losing recipe...every time.

    Secondly, counter attacking soccer is the way the USMNT is built to play. Fans talk about different country’s style of plays. The American style is counter attacking. Beat teams with stiff defending and out athleting our opponents.

    Thirdly, Wil Trapp and Gyasi Zardes. Barf.
     
    Namdynamo, DHC1, SCSAutism and 3 others repped this.
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having Pomykal put on the keeper shirt and play all over the field like Rooney in that lad Nike commercial would also be risky and experimental.

    Not all experiments are created equal, first, and second, we already tried this experiment and know the result.

    Playing out of the back with a diktat to never play long against a team man marking all over the park is bad. Not sure why you had to even run that experiment because it’s just ********ing common sense, but whatever.
     
    DHC1 and juveeer repped this.
  9. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Things aren't working, oh well, better just keep smacking my head against the wall!

    Your definition of a good coach is a pathetically-low bar.

    And, unsurprisingly, fans want a coach that can adjust his way out of a wet paper bag.

    Then again, you probably believe that 3G was the best candidate for the job! :ROFLMAO:
     
    ChicagoVT repped this.
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Agree on Trapp and Zardes.

    We have plenty of time to go back to the same defend and counter if everything doesn’t work. It’s a friendly.
     
    Eleven Bravo repped this.
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Improvement can take time. And sometimes you force things because the results don’t matter and you can’t improve if you take the easy way at the first kind of resistance.

    Only one of the goals was due to forcing it out of the back, and I actually thought the midfield played much better in this match.

    The defense made bad mistakes. We didn’t match Mexico’s intensity and we played scared, as Pulisic said. Hesitating going forward, hesitating on through balls.

    I intentionally watched this game without commentary and reading anything before it, and while I saw issues out of the back, there was more to this game.
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Why is everything so binary to everyone?

    I don’t think Gregg was the best coach for the job. It’s super unlikely any coaching search yields that. I don’t know who the best coach is that would have taken it — I think Tata would have taken Mexico over the US any day.

    But after a loss, everything is reduced to “The coach sucks.” People line up on their preconceived notions and force everything to it.

    People love Dest and hate Trapp, so on the first goal, it’s on Trapp because he didn’t track back, but not on Dest for getting nutmegged because he was a bit lackadaisical and then not pursuing and providing no pressure. It’s on them both. Also, this experiment was good even though it cost us ... because we wanted it.

    The second goal seems to be mostly on Berhalter and no mention of McKennie who causes it by passing for no reason and underweighting the ball with an attacker right there. It was Wil Trapp sloppy, and it’s the second straight game McKennie has cost us against Mexico by late, sloppy play. But people insist on acting like our talent pool competes with Mexico a5 this level even though the consensus #2 does these things.

    To recognize this does not mean You hate McKennie, think he should be benched of absolve Berhalter from any responsibility.

    Goal #3 was a goal that happened as the US was pushing forward, risking more. It was also after we went to sub# and their sub is Lozano. Our team depth sucks, Long miscalculated and Steffen should have had it anyway. But it wasn’t about playing out of the back.

    I don’t think Berhalter is some genius and have never said so. But criticism needs to be fact based to me. Mexico didn’t make mistakes and we did. #2 can partially be blamed on playing out of the back, and #1 can partially be blamed on Trapp.
     
  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I'm a big fan of Tata Martino because the guy loves a challenge. What he did with Paraguay is still the stuff of legends. But I doubt he'd have taken the USMNT job over the Mexico one for a couple of reasons:

    1) He's an intelligent man, and as such, he'd have hated working for a federation so full of in-breeding like the USSF, not to mention they'd have given him the job reluctantly and would have limited his powers;

    2) The entire political atmosphere in the USA is not welcoming for a guy like him. Tata is not a fan of right-wing atmospheres, and he only met Macri (elected on a right-wing platform) once it was clear he was much more moderate than his voters.

    Also, Tata needs players who can control a pass and send in a through-ball with the right angle and spin to facilitate the guy receiving the pass to continue without having to stop and control it first. In short, the A-B-C of Latin-style soccer. But I've remarked on this before.
     
  14. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If we lose to Canada in the Nations League is that enough to get Beerholder fired?
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Also:

    When Tata left Atlanta, the reason most often given was that his wife wanted to move to a Spanish speaking country. While you could do the USMNT remote, why when Mexico is also calling.

    Tata also has a history of very short stints at mostly highly talented locations. He’s stayed four years at a job once, I believe. I don’t know that the program building at US Soccer would have appealed to him.

    Lastly, the language this goes both ways. Everyone in the FMF and on the team speaks Spanish. Tata speaks English, but reportedly not well enough that he avoids it. Parkhurst or Larentowicz didn’t criticize him, but did comment that it was much easier to communicate with DeBoer.

    I don’t say this to say Tata couldn’t have pulled it off - but when Mexico is calling, why add that issue?

    I think he was out of the US, period.
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    If my brother were my boss I'd feel very comfy about my job security.
     
    DHC1 repped this.
  17. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No doubt but at some point J has to think about his own ass. If things keep getting worse and nothing is done because of him it will eventually blow back. That won’t led to him getting a job elsewhere.
     
  18. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    If Mrs. Tata wants a Spanish speaking country, I could see a move to Miami.

    In any case, Jurgen didn't move out of SoCal so theoretically Tata and Missus could live wherever they wanted to within reason.

    I heard Tata speak English and it was good enough and, more importantly, getting better. He was worried about saying the wrong thing to the press which is why we only heard his English very rarely.

    I think the choice between Mejico and USA would have been a dilemma for Tata. His opinion of talent in the pool mite have been the deciding factor. Our talent is pretty thin or young. I could see him being interested in USA job for 2026 cycle or the LAFC/Galaxy job if available. Miami is a bit hot.
     
  19. appwrangler

    appwrangler Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 18, 2018
    I love this thread title and look forward to reading it over the coming years, through all the regime changes.

    Gregg strikes me as a guy who is not a total idiot. So if that’s true, he’s just about to give up playing the role of a small high school coach who comes to practice with some notes he drew up over the summer, and start operating as a national team coach who is focused on using the players he has to win the games in front of him. If it turns out I’m wrong about that, we are going to look back on the last WC qualifying cycle with fond nostalgia.
     
    Excellency repped this.
  20. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's binary when everyone says we're getting pissed on, and you're saying it's rain.

    We made far more than 3 mistakes, we were simply punished 3 times for mistakes. We had multiple mistakes that ended in chances that were shanked by Mexican attackers. Meanwhile, our possession consisted of panicked backpasses and booted balls into the sidelines.

    The US is outperforming Mexico at the YNT level. Up until a year or two ago, there was no question that we could compete with Mexico with our talent pool. In fact, we had the edge over Mexico for over a decade.

    Now that the results have gone against us, all of a sudden the pool isn't as good. Like clockwork.

    That's despite the fact that we didn't have any players from Cuova on the field.

    Despite the fact that the tactics Berhalter used were objectively harmful.

    We haven't looked this bad against Mexico in over a decade, with multiple coaches getting far better results... and your response is to blame the pool. Makes sense.

    Berhalter's cheering that performance as "success", and claiming that the natural reaction against it is merely a "media narrative". Sounds very similar to your tireless deflection of blame and defense of 3G.
     
  21. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    No, that would be trying new things.
     
    Excellency repped this.
  22. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Anything follows from a false antecedent.
     
  23. appwrangler

    appwrangler Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 18, 2018
    Well sure if you think that’s true...
     
  24. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. 21st Century Pele

    Apr 16, 2014
    But I wanted him fired long before this match. Heck, I never wanted him hired in the first place.
     

Share This Page