I agree - that's why I was confused by the original post. i.e. The team's on the field - and the context tells you which one. I didn't mean to say that it was a nickname. However they also sometimes refer to 'the boys' (we also do this in new zealand) and it is clear enough that this is only ever the familiar team. Usually in NZ only people who have played for the national team or been in management are allowed to refer to 'the boys' as it infers an insider status. Ok - that's interesting. That context makes sense as well. I mean I can't say I have kept notes of every conversation I have ever heard but as far as I can recall, round here people frequently refer to der deutschen (Nationalmannschaft) or just Deutschland spielt heute as well as die Nationalmannschaft . I suppose it might depend on how many drinks everyone has had. No idea what the kids say as we are all 40 at least
True, a professional journalist should probably keep more distance. You're right, Deutschland spielt heute is probably something I've said as well quite often.
I think its something like Caught in Between with the imagery that he fell through the cracks I don't know how "Zwischenspielers" translates
As it was me to bring up the "Mannschaft" issue. Sorry for that. But in my view calling sth. by the false name that you're obviously fan of, even if you're from abroad, is in the end a bit disrespectful. Not that I want to say that you, I mean you all, do or did this by intend. It's just like everyone is calling the French equipe while equipe also just means "team". I think it has already been pointed out that "Mannschaft" could mean any Mannschaft, any team around the world. The nickname is the official term "Nationalmannschaft" - national team. "Schweinsteiger hat in der Nationalmannschaft gute Leistungen gezeigt." "Nationalmannschaft" sounds different as it is sth. special, you have to be very good, you're allowed to play for you country and you wear the colors schwarz und weiß. But as I said, Deutschland, deutsche Mannschaft or Nationalelf are okay too depending on the context. Think the article refers to Kroos's problem of not having a certain spot in the team. Kroos position at Bayern is occupied by Özil, the both DM's by Schweini and Khedira. Kroos actually would have a spot right in between the OM and the DM while one position is too offensive for him, for the other he has not the defensive capabilities to play the position vs better opponents. Now Reus has already taken a spot in the team while Kroos has not. So "Kroos is caugth in between (the spaces)". "Zwischenspieler" = "a player wavering between....".
Yeah - it doesn't really translate very well as in English the idea of him being trapped in a gap or stuck in an indeterminate place doesn't really work - you'd more talk about his unclear role, or being neither one thing or the other, or being unable to make the jump
I will say again, for those that did not get it the 1st time. Having lived in S America and in the US outside of my time in Germany, for obvious reasons when people outside of Germany say, "Mannschaft", it is pretty clear who they are talking about. "Die Mannschaft" is German...thus it means a reference to the German NT. This is 99% not the case when two Germans are talking but that is not the situation here. We are talking about non-German press and non-German fans. If you are listening to an English commentator and he says, "La Tri Color" he is probably refering to one of the following; Mexico, Ecuador, Venezuela, Colombia and perhaps another one or two. The term "Tri Color" is used because of the 3 colors on the flag. Germany have three colors, but it would be pretty silly to think they are referring to Germany, right?. When one mentions La Selecao, chances are they are referring to Brazil and not, let's say Poland. In Ecuador, when comemmtators say, La Seleccion...regardless of weather the opposing team is South American as well, it usually means, "My Team", even if the translation is "the team" or the "selection" to be more precise. The use of the term "die Mannschaft" abroad is what the non-German press and pundits calls the German National Team. This apply to everywhere. I have seen, heard and read stations from Mexico, Argentina, Ecuador, etc, etc...it is "die Mannschaft". "The Team" in German...to reference the German team. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. If you see a non-German speaking fan of Germany's NT call it "die Mannschaft" it is because it is what everyone else calls it. I am less sure why it bothers so many that "die Mannschaft" is what the German NT is referred to by outside press...who fucking cares? As far as it being disrespectful? Lol...gimme a break. I have never cared if other fans say Mannschaft, but that is probably because I have heard it so much living abroad. This is comical, especially when we are on a football forum talking about the German team and someone has to be the smart ass and say, "Mannschaft??? Huh??? Now I am confused? Which team are you talking about?" Well take a wild guess!
I agree he was good at the EUROs but I think he still needs to improve on consistency. He goes missing for parts of matches too often for a top class CM IMO.
It is very silly. This whole, "It is wrong," "I'm offended," "It is insulting" type attitude just makes me glad I am not living in Germany right now.
No chris. Seems it got lost in translation who I complained about. It was not the media, pundits or whoever calls Germany "die Mannschaft" somewhere else. I referred to Germany's abroad fans like you and others, especially when they engage themselves with Germany's NT to such an extend as following their games and writing in forums. Then I think one can rightfully expect them to know better. Even if everybody else does it where you're from - you should know better. Now if I get here into this forum and through some threads and get to read "die Mannschaft" this is pretty annoying. You might dont care as you are used to it, but from my personal view, from a view of the average in Germany residing fan to which their Nationalmannschaft is holy, the term is weird and to a certain extend condescending. As Germans dont use the term for their team, in case you call yourself a fan, then you shouldnt do it too.
I do not expect a non-German to know this because unless they speak German and have been brought up this way, or have come across an ass-hole of a fan like yourself that is more pre-occupied in correcting their "lack of knowledge" on the German NT's nickname, then how the hell would they know? As I said, outside of Germany, like it or not, the nickname that has been given to Germany's NT is "die Mannschaft". It may bug the crap out of you and a few other German hardcore fans...but that is the way it is. For me, I accept this since I have become used to it living outside of Germany for as long as I have so I cannot possible let this bother me. I actually enjoy the non-German fas using a German tern to describe the team... "Wierd: and "condescending"??? WTF??? They are fans of a game calling the team they like what just about the whole world calls them. Better get used to it if you want to interact with fans of the German NT that aren't German or the only one that will continously sound wierd and condescending is you as you try to "correct" everyone else.
I did not try to correct you or anyone else. Use whichever term you want. This term stays wrong and condescending though. And I will have to live with eye cancer. Back to the topic.
Nobody cares in Germany and nobody feels offended by a nick lol. I really don't know how white/blue comes to this conclusion. It has nothing to do with "respect" at all. That doesn't make sense at all.
I have never heard anyone care about it except for on here in bigsoccer either. When I speak with my family or friends and we say "Deutsche Nationalmannschaft", or whatever, because it comes natural to us...but when I hear a non-german say "mannschaft" I have never thought twice as to what they were indeed referring to and been either confused or offended. It is something to bitch about.
I don't have a problem with the term die Mannschaft, but don't people in Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries call their own national team La Seleccion/Selecao?
They do, and I think this is were they get the idea of using the term "Mannschaft" for Germany is completely acceptable. If an Argie fan or press says, "LLego la seleccion" most would understand that he is talking about his team or he more than likely would have said, "Llego la seleccion de Colombia" or what have you. Outside of Germany, they simply use "Mannschaft" or even may say, "Llego la Mannschaft de Alemania"...but because "Mannschaft" is a German word as it is, most would get that it is Germany they are talking about without adding "Aleman" or "Alemana" at the end. There is nothing condescending about this. Bottom line, you don't go out of your way in English or Spanish or what have you to use the German word "Mannschaft" to describe "team" if that team is France, for example. This is why this whole argument is ridiculous.
I said parts of matches. He's a top CM but he needs to be making an impact on the match for 90 minutes rather than 65-75. There are many occasions in any match where he gets caught in no man's land.
Hmm...I've always seen him as one of the few players that is active for all 90 minutes and rarely drops his concentration.
I don't disagree that he is active, but that doesn't always equate to being impactful for him. His concentration is good, that isn't an issue for me. I believe his positioning leaves him running through no man's land too often at times nearly every match. The only time he should be "ghosting" like that is in attack, but unfortunately he is nowhere to be found during some important defensive situations. Still, he is an excellent midfielder. Underrated? Sure. Criminally underrated? We'll have to disagree on that adjective.
I think that may be a byproduct of what his role entails and what his strengths are as a player. He was always the type to make forward runs or take advantage of spaces ahead of the midfield. I think that combined with the system (double six) perhaps creates that perception because responsibilities are shared by the two players and maybe when consolidated with his own instincts results in what you see. I find his runs very positive and necessary for the rest of the team because sometimes we get bogged down too easily and begin to be repetitive and need someone to break the pattern and Sami does that very well. The reason I made that comment is because you'll still find many who wouldn't even consider him one of the top CMs in Europe or on par with Schweinsteiger which in my opinion he without a doubt is.
This is probably true. His runs in attack are certainly valuable, but leave him unable to recover at certain times. That said, I will consider him truly great once I see him become more proficient at stopping counter attacks and positioning himself in tactically valuable positions in defense more often. His passing and ball control are adequate, but they could be improved. Minor issue, however. For me Khedira is undoubtedly a top central midfielder. He is currently on par with Schweinsteiger IMO, even though I believe Schweini's WM 2010 was better than Khedira's EURO 2012.