Pre-match: International Friendly: USA vs Mexico; September 6th

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, Jul 8, 2019.

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  1. PANDEMONEUM

    PANDEMONEUM Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    Club:
    Asteras Tripolis
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is there a roster yet?

    do teams, have to, release guys for this?

    id expect none of the young euros,
    whose seasons are about to start, are coming in for this.

    gimme fringe and young mls/mex guys,
    so we can see some more options.

    NOT bradley, zardes, etc
     
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  2. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @PANDEMONEUM Yes, official FIFA date. And no roster yet. I'd expect one Aug 25ish.

    It seems as if we threw out those mid-August friendlies. We played Brazil at Metlife in Aug 2010, and Bosnia away in Aug 2013. I can't remember if they were actual FIFA dates, but I think they were.

    Also keep in mind, Davies' goal at the Azteca - Aug 12, 2009. FIFA used to really push for those August matches.
     
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  3. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lletget's injury forced Mihailovic onto the roster, not Roldan.
     
  4. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good post. I'll say that, while his age (33) probably restricts him greatly, Steve Clark for the Timbers has been excellent this year. Really amazing. Great shot stopper, good command of his box. Pretty good feet for a keeper. Probably playing his best soccer ever. Has definitely been responsible for a number of positive results for the Timbers in 2019.
     
  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Mihailovic stayed and Sargent got sent home. Good grief.
     
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  6. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why do you think Berhalter will only use Zardes and Altidore? He's had 7 months (now) to evaluate his player pool and tactics, which culminated in a Gold Cup roster after 2 cupcake games and 4 friendlies (where Adams, who is arguably the 2nd best player we have was only available for 1 game). He's made several adjustments/callups that many on BS were certain he wouldn't make. He is obviously scouting lower Euro divisions for talent. I think Berhalter is trending in the right direction. Time will tell, but I have hope that things will generally trend toward the "younger and better" category as this generation of promising youth pans out (hopefully, though maybe it won't).
     
  7. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. Nonetheless, it was Mihailovic that got the final nod due to Lletget's injury, not Roldan.
     
  8. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    every non-euro player on the gold cup roster was in jan camp. what adjustments/callups did you see in his last roster from his first, save those that werent available? in terms of personel there werent any.
     
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  9. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, there were two who would have been on the roster except for injury. Holmes and Adams in terms of personnel. Tactically and with regards to personnel, Berhalter made many changes throughout the tournament that lots of people were sure he wouldn't do because of the "System TM".
     
  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    who werent available in jan. look, we have a small sample size but he hasnt made any changes at all in mls players hes used. from players no one thinks are good enough in the first place (lovitz, lewis) to guys who have clearly regressed in berhalters time in charge (trapp, mihailovic).

    maybe youre right, maybe hes going to go nuts giving euro-based players looks, but that will be contrary to what hes shown. if anything hes shown he reverts to familiarity (benching boyd for morris).
     
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  11. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He dropped Baird, which should be unsurprising because Baird was not good. Nonetheless, there were many here that shouted about Baird being a certainty on the Gold Cup roster due to his cupcake and March callups and he was dropped.
     
  12. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    for boyd who wasnt available in jan.
     
  13. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So he chose a player on a Euro roster over Baird because Boyd was better. How does that discredit Berhalter's selection in that case?
     
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  14. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter is not the greatest coach, but if he flipped players wholesale from one camp to the next we'd see outrage that there's no consistency.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Look, it's gotta be changes ...

    ... but it can't be anyone from a 40-person camp in January, or anyone that has been hurt, or anyone from Europe. Because we should have a TON of personnel changes over six months, even though the last six games' roster was set about 3-4 months after the first roster came in.

    Like all USSF rosters in eternity, including youth rosters, it's pretty static. Of course, Berhalter is implementing a new system without a lot of time in camp. But we should really have mass turnover.

    Things that don't count at all:
    * Bringing in Boyd even though it's documented he's the guy who went and got him
    * Cannon losing out to Lima but then winning out his spot
    * Miazga either beating out Zimmerman or him changing for matchups
    * A player like Holmes -- who is not a clear Euro starter, getting a shot

    I have no love for many of the players, and do wish there was a little more rotation. But there's a moving target here of objectives.

    Oh, if ONLY Berhalter could call in their exact roster!
     
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  16. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he chose pulisic, mckennie, etc over whoever too- none of them were available in jan.

    he didnt drop baird for wooten. or zardes for toye (not arguing for or against any specific change, just stating that there werent any). i dont know how i can make this any more clear- he made no changes in terms of mls players. he brought in euro players who werent available in jan.

    he replaced zero mls players with OTHER mls players. he did not make changes based on anything other than availibility. im not making a case, its not an argument- its what happened. objectively.

    youre arguing that he made changes no one thought he would and thats simply not true. talk about the system all you want, but roster-wise youre absolutely wrong.
     
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  17. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If he calls in Lovitz for the next game, and no other option, I'll give it to you. Otherwise, I'll remain hopeful that Gregg and his staff recognize real talent and will call them in when deserved.
     
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  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    theres nothing to give- we were talking about to this point. and i already said you may be right going forward (re euro players- ill believe hes not married to familiar mls options when i see it).

    youre literally arguing against nothing.
     
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  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    regarding cannon over lima: We had no offense on our right side vs. Mexico which meant Mexico could deploy larger numbers to our left side where they could use the numerical advantage to smother the attack of Ream-Arriola-Pulisic.

    take a look at the now infamous 20minute interval recorded which shows zero offense on that right side in the 2nd half when Mexico put in play their half time adjustments.

    So you can say that cannon defends better than Lima but what does that matter when Mexico goes at our left side quite comfortable in the knowledge that Mckennie plus cannon on our right side can't hurt them? You have the comfortable security of pointing to Cannon's great "defense". I say that as someone who would have played Cannon - and said so pre game - but I'm now second guessing myself which isn't something you see enough of around here. In retrospect, I wonder if Lima would not have been the better choice. I'm not sure.
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The concept that Berhalter has been strategically flexible is bogus IMO.

    The most important decision he has made (to play a regista where long passing is far more important that defense) has been 100% consistent throughout every game he has coached.

    I guess one can say,"well, he has changed how he tries to compensate for the obvious deficiencies that he has created" but that's losing the forest through the trees and not an example of a highly flexible coach.

    there's still time but I just don't believe that narrative that some are try to push here.
     
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  21. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not really if the players are so bad they dont deserved to be called in again. I think thats kind of the point of the friendlies so far anyway. In fact if he dropped about 8 players, and added a different set, Id actually be far more encouraged that he sees these guys arent good enough. The guys behind them may not be either, but they need a chance to show that on the field.

    Just from the GC these imo are the players who arent good enough, or not good enough yet:
    Johnson
    Miller
    Gonzalez
    Lovitz
    Bradley
    Trapp
    Roldan(if he is seen as a LM)
    Lewis
    Zardes
    Mihailovic

    I understand some injuries changed a couple things but thats far too many players not up to snuff on a roster thats been seen over and over.

    Will he change? He hasnt shown yet that he will, but Im willing to give him through the end of the year. He needs to show he has the ability to change and do it for multiple camps, not just a throwaway camp. We will see. Hopefully he does.
     
  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    No, Djorde was a late sub for Holmes who was hurt.

    Holmes and Adams were on the roster. Sargent was not. Sargent was left off for Roldan when Lletget was hurt. I'm not being a detective, I'm just telling you what the coach said. It is more bizarre because, at that time, Holmes could have basically covered any position Roldan or Lletget could.

    Adams was then hurt and he added Cannon. Holmes was hurt and he added Djorde.
     
  23. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Lleget was going to cover CAM and LW. Roldan was backing up McKennie and was going to make the roster anyway.

    When Lleget went down (and possibly Holmes, as we never saw an interim roster with Holmes, I don't think, just twitter chatter), he needed to cover LW and CAM with two players instead of one.

    That meant he couldn't carry three strikers, and Sargent was left behind.

    I don't think Roldan was ever in question -- he started as McKennie's backup and filled in at RW either because Boyd was hurt or because he wanted a more defensive player.

    It was effectively Lewis, or a backup LW, who took the spot. That is, if you view Lleget as primarily the CAM backup.
     
  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2019/06/berhalter-names-2019-gold-cup-roster

    Holmes is on the team. Holmes can cover either of the 8/10s and either wing; which does make the Sargent explanation dubious. But that is what 3G said was the reason. Either Holmes or Roldan was the midfielder that replaced Lletget. Certainly, was not Pulisic, McKennie, Bradley, or Trapp. It would be even more ludicrous if it was Holmes, based on Jamaica and Venezuela and general skill level. But who knows with 3G and his Cupcake guys. But one would think it was Roldan.

    That Lewis had to be carried, along with Roldan, because Lletget is hurt is the excuse. But it was hardly necessary and it cost the team in the end. Not bringing Sargent probably hurt the program too.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    So it was Holmes and Lewis, then. I don't think Roldan ever entered in the equation -- he was / is pretty clearly McKennie's backup.
     

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