Identifying Talent - How and When?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by UglyParent, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Goal keeper dad I had to turn off the sound to watch the video the music was filling up my head :) could not concentrate on your son. I wanted to dance the samba :)

    I noticed on his diving saves he never comes down with the ball. I think it is the keeper coach telling him something different them most coaches telling their players. That was why I wanted to see him in training with his keeper coach.

    He is not using a keeper coach who wants the ball to be the weight bearer on his landings after the save. I used to agree with his current coach, but my opionion has changed over time. Now I prefer the ball being the weight bearer after the save. You end more attacks after the save by doing that.

    He is very calm oh his short passing distritions. I like to see more throwing distributions, but to get that you have to make more catches. One he does make a catch is his catch quite or does it make a loud noice when he catches the ball. If it is loud he should change his catch to the contour catch do that his catches would be easier to handle because the ball is hitting a softer area on his hand so less bouncing off his hands on the catch.

    Good luck
     
    GoalkeeperDad repped this.
  2. GoalkeeperDad

    GoalkeeperDad New Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Thank you nicklaino for your review. I will make sure my boy read this.
     
  3. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Remember you want the ball to be the weight bearer after the save. You catch the ball and use the ball to break his fall. So you end up with more catches. Do that you end the attacks sooner and when you get up it's with the ball so you get more throwing distributions.

    It was obvious from watching him play when he dives to make a save he never came up with the ball in his hands.
     
    GoalkeeperDad repped this.
  4. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This is a good video on keeping.

     
    GoalkeeperDad repped this.
  5. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Plays for a NY Cup Gold division team I see. Our club is also in the gold level, different group. May be seeing him up close in the elimination rounds in the spring.

    Not to burst your bubble, but our team also has a couple of 7-yo's on it. Its possible to do
     
  6. bostondiesel

    bostondiesel Member

    Oct 23, 2006
    We have had my son at two academies in Europe (Beleneses,Zagreb) both independent of one another recommend players here(US) playing at least two birth years up, obviously not always possible, not always what people are looking for BUT if you believe you have a player I do endorse playing him\her to edge of their abilities.

    An aspiring talent does not need\want a comfort zone.
     
  7. Sang_Culé

    Sang_Culé Member

    Jan 23, 2015
    DMV
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wondering what your kid is doing now?
     
  8. GoalkeeperDad

    GoalkeeperDad New Member

    Aug 25, 2014
    Here we go again. Max is diving here keeping his ball in the hands. Recent single game clip just a little over a minute.
    Sorry nicklaino, had to ad music again to keep everyone entertained
     
  9. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He made a lot more catches in the short time I saw good. His distributions were good except the thing in the middle of the field.

    I still want to see him train with your keeper coach.

    I also want to see him direct his defense after his team loses the ball.

    He looks like a tall kid how tall is he?
     
  10. R. Carrillo

    R. Carrillo Member

    Aug 15, 2013
    Long Island, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Hope everyone is having a great season. Saw some discussion as to playing up, seems like it is a readily available option for everyone. I think all the teams in D1 NYCSL have multiple kids playing up, but i have yet to see any kid that looks like he is really blossoming there. On another note, unfortunately I think we still see alot of boot and run in this league.
     
  11. Experiences from USA youth with the Feyenoord way:

    http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...cal-athletes-take-lessons-odp-trip/100644738/
    Local athletes take lessons from ODP trip
    Daniel Karell , The Courier-Journal 3:56 p.m. ET April 22, 2017
    [​IMG]

    (Photo: Sevy Sucurovic)

    124 CONNECTTWEET 7 LINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE
    Two Kentucky Olympic Development Program teams were given a crash course on Dutch society and Dutch soccer culture during spring break.

    One team of 18 boys and another made up of 18 girls took part in practices, games and city and stadium tours as well as attending professional soccer games during a week’s stay at Feyenoord Rotterdam in Rotterdam, Netherlands, in early April.

    The players involved were exposed to new kinds of coaching methods as well as a different tactical setup on the field from their opponents.

    “The trip was honestly an experience of a lifetime,” New Albany sophomore Logan Barber said. “It’s something I’m never going to forget. The soccer part was absolutely amazing but also the culture part of it was an incredible thing too.”

    On the eight-day trip, the teams took part in multiple training sessions before playing scrimmages against nearby teams and Feyenoord youth squads.

    "A lot of players come from their local clubs and high school teams and are big fish in little ponds and coming to ODP is out of their bubble,” said Lora Gralheer, an ODP coach who attended the trip. “I always encourage kids to try that, to push to the next level. There was a little bit of shell shock in the first game but they settled in and started to take some results from training and the second games were much better from work effort and tactics and training. These kids were willing to step outside their bubble and they did well and that’s a great thing.”

    More:Doc: Why FC Cincinnati is outdrawing the Cincinnati Reds

    More:Sullivan | NCAA chooses pragmatism over principle

    One of the biggest bonuses for the players was learning different styles of coaching and playing. According to Barber, the Dutch women’s teams played more of a direct attacking style, forcing her and her teammates to adjust on how to defend.

    In addition, the Kentucky ODP players found that the Dutch coaches the teams worked with didn’t give much instruction during the games or sessions, instead preferring to see how the players solved problems together on the field.

    What Dutch coaches try to do is try to explain to the kids why you do certain things,” Feyenoord’s Development of Business Affairs in the U.S. Sevy Sucurovic said. “It’s the why that matters. So Dutch coaches are teachers in a sense that they ask kids questions and not give them answers, and they try to guide them to the answers.”

    Added Barber: “They expect you to know how to fix your own problems instead of saying ‘hey, this is what you need to do’.

    “Peter (Barendse from Feyenoord) was our coach for the week and instead of saying ‘Logan, you need to make this pass,' he would say, ‘Instead of doing this, try this, but why would you do that,’ and you would be like, ‘I don’t know why’ because over here you’re not taught why you do it, you’re taught just to do it because it’s the right thing to do, and I get to take that back here. I think to myself now, ‘OK, I messed up, what do I need to do to fix it and why?' and it was kind of cool to see that.”

    In addition to all the work on the field, the players had some fun off it. There were tours of the city of Rotterdam, a day out playing footgolf (a combination of soccer and golf) and three professional matches, including a packed house at Feyenoord’s stadium De Kuip to see the host thrash Go Ahead Eagles 8-0.

    “It was awesome,” Fairdale sophomore Yovani Ozuna said. “(It was) a unique experience. I had never seen a professional game (before).”

    Following a successful trip, the Kentucky Youth Soccer Association is planning another trip next year, though it’s not yet clear whether the youth players will head back to the Netherlands or go to another destination.

    [​IMG]
    Kentucky ODP players take in a match at Feyenoord's stadium, De Kuip. (Photo: Sevy Sucurovic)
     
  12. EverRespect

    EverRespect New Member

    Apr 11, 2015
    Club:
    --other--
    Update... This kid has something the others don't, like a soccer engineer. He is still refusing formal training at 8 years old and continues teaching himself everything just watching YouTube and practicing in the back yard. He just led his veey undertalented rec team to a 9-0 record. Today they played a team stacked with all the club players and they won 7-4 and my kid generated all the offense and shut them out the quarter he was goalie including a diving save. He had 2 goals, including one on a corner he took where he curved in in the opposite upper 90 and one where he chipped it over a defender's head and finished on the other side. And he had 5 assists that were all his doing point guard style. The weaknesses are that he refuses to play or help with any defense once the ball crosses midfield, his shot has pinpoint accuracy but not much power, and his speed is just above average so he chooses his energy burn carefully. His skill set, creativoty and mental/strategic game are leaps and bounds better than anyone he has played with under 12, rec or club level.
     
  13. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    First, you sound like a very proud papa, as you should be…enjoy the ride….these years go by so fast…

    Second, I don’t know you or your kid from Adam, so please don’t take anything I say personally….

    With that said, all it takes is a little skill, some athleticism and an ubber competitive nature, which can be rare in 8 year olds, to tear up the u-little fields, especially if its rec or the local club scene…the talent gap you are seeing will likely narrow in the coming years…it has to really…

    Even in my little pond, I seen stand out “superstar” 8 years-olds who look just like everyone else at 13…not that they aren’t still very good soccer players; it’s just that everyone has caught up and is just as comparatively as good as well…if all he is going to do is beat up the local talent, which doesn’t really sound like its pushing him, that talent will eventually catch up to him…

    Prepare and guard yourself for that situation….kids, and parents alike, get used to being head and shoulders better then everyone, doing whatever they like on the field, scoring at will, carrying whole teams on their back, being too good to play defense, etc…like I say, that won’t be the case in a few years…I’ve seen a lot of frustration from both parents and kids as they transition from young superstud to just another very talented teammate…
     
    sam_gordon, StrikerMom, kinznk and 2 others repped this.
  14. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like a kid who really loves to play and is developing the technical skills and soccer IQ he'll need to be a good player someday.

    I'd relax and enjoy the ride--at some point, as noted by @mwulf67 above, he's going to find his level and not be the big fish in a small pond, talent-wise. That will be a GOOD thing; the best advice I ever got when my son (who is now a pretty good college player, by the way) was a very good young player just like yours was to "let him have fun." This is the point in his life where he's going to be free to experiment, try new things, develop his touch, his technical skills, and his personality as a player--and it's also when he develops a genuine love of the game.

    Enjoy the ride!
     
  15. tchoke

    tchoke New Member

    Jul 13, 2015
    ontario canada
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Hello From ontario Canada
    I wanted to share our teams first game of the season
    playing u13 this is the teams first year playing 11v11, we have about 9 new comers on the team
    but i think we play pretty well and have quite a bit of talented kids, i was going to make a highlight film of my kids game, but he played CDM that day and its not the most sexy position.
    no music added, so you get to hear the video game controller coach of the other team :p
     
  16. EverRespect

    EverRespect New Member

    Apr 11, 2015
    Club:
    --other--
    Thanks! He is pretty darn good at basketball as well. In fact, if he lived somewhere like Indiana or Europe, that might be his primary sport, but around here the only leagues competitive enough are the inner city leagues and he gets frustrated because the other kids don't pass or play fundamental ball. It is just an athletic talent showcase and he gets discriminated against being the only white kid. Probably a blessing in disguise because, while he is relatively tall for his age, genetics make it unlikely he'll be over 6-feet. I'm only 5'10" and his mother is 5'7". Heck of a shooter, dribbler, and passer though. When he was 5, I was sure it was his future, even as he was getting good at soccer. If nothing else it helps with short bursts of speed, field awareness, and is a nice change up in the summer and winter to prevent soccer burnout, just unlikely he'll ever get a fair shot to play at the HS level around here unless he goes to a private school.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  17. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would definitely let him continue to play both sports a while longer. No need to specialize this early. And I think playing the one will translate well to the other. The lateral quickness that playing hoops will develop can only help in soccer.

    The great thing about basketball and soccer--if you can play both sports, there aren't many places on this planet where you won't be able to find pick-up or adult rec games in one or the other. No matter where you go, you should be able to find a game, and make friends.
     
    mwulf67 repped this.
  18. tchoke

    tchoke New Member

    Jul 13, 2015
    ontario canada
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    highlight of my sons recent game
    feedback always appreciated
     
  19. temesgen

    temesgen Member+

    Jun 27, 2004
    Looks talented, cool under pressure, keeps head up, nice passing range and understands how to play into space.
     
    tchoke repped this.
  20. Scoots

    Scoots New Member

    Jul 12, 2016
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Andreu Josep

    Andreu Josep Member

    May 23, 2016
    Club:
    Hercules Alicante
    There is good new block on development:
    Rethinking Football discusses player development with current professionals, players, world-renowned scouts, professional football academy directors, coaches and others. We will use Spain's model and compare it to other national governing bodies in other countries. At the end of each podcast, we will update our Theory of Change to improve player development worldwide, using indicators, best practices and our own research, along with the opinions and expertise of our guests.

    EPISODES 1 -3 AN INTERVIEW WITH MANUEL ROMERO
    Manuel Romero was head of scouting for Real Madrid in Catalonia, Spain. He has discovered and scouted hundreds of youth players who have reached professionalism in La Liga and other elite leagues. Some of the people he discovered include Kiko Casillas (Real Madrid), Dani Jarque (RCD Espanyol), Aleix Vidal (Barcelona FC), and Mariano Diaz (Olympic Lyon). Romero talks about what he looks for in players, and what it takes to become an elite player.

    EPISODE 1-THE SPANISH MODEL: WHY ARE THEY SO GOOD?! DISCUSSING THE INDICATORS THAT MAKE SPAIN AN IDEAL PLAYER DEVELOPMENT ENVIRONMENT, AS WELL AS AN ELITE LEAGUE IN ALL TIERS AT THE SENIOR LEVEL
    EPISODE 2-ELITE SCOUTING: GOODWILL HUNTING DISCUSSING THE INDICATORS ELITE SCOUTS UTILIZE TO SIGN FUTURE STARS.

    Transcripts and additional information for each episode is available at https://www.prospectsss.com/rfpodcast/
     
  23. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Re: tryouts article

    Something observed once, at one club, is not a fact.

    Statements like tryouts are unfair or coaches don’t recognize talent are not facts.

    We all know the outliers situation, that isn’t new.

    I don’t think the writer is completely wrong, but the belief that every thought they have becomes a fact when they type it idetracts from their message.
     
    mwulf67 repped this.
  24. sam_gordon

    sam_gordon Member

    Feb 27, 2017
    OK, that was an extremely long article. He goes into a lot of details of why tryouts are "bad" and don't help development. But he never says (even in the section of "What are the alternatives") what to do instead of tryouts.

    Is he saying there should be no teams? That kids should just play "pick up" games that they organize on their own?

    Should everyone who shows up be accepted on a team? What if you have two coaches and 60 kids show up for a U13 tryout?

    To me, there are a finite number of coaches. The number of coaches determines how many teams. The number of teams determines how many kids can participate.
     
    TheKraken repped this.
  25. Scoots

    Scoots New Member

    Jul 12, 2016
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Regarding the article- Couple of caveats- While I think the gist of the article is not wrong, a 2 hour tryout is not the best way to form or decide on a team, especially in situations where coaches have had no prior contact with the participants.
    For example the local DA here recently had a a tryout session for pre-academy group. It was a 2 hour tryout- 4-5 person teams scrimmaging on futsal sized fields, so these are players that coaches have never seen practice or play and are making decisions based on short viewing time on small fields.
    Some of the research was interesting, hence the link to it here for discussion, but ultimately the authors trying to drum up interest for his club. The club he is with does a lot of free play activities, and group play to form teams.
    My son has participated in a few of the free play activities, and while he enjoys it and does have fun, he also gets frustrated because it is a lot of in his words "ball hogging and hot dogging".
     

Share This Page