Howard/Donovan: Everton - Chelsea / 02.10.10 / 3pm ET

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by Crimen y Castigo, Feb 8, 2010.

  1. Alex_1

    Alex_1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 29, 2002
    Zürich
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I suppose this is off-topic and I've tried to avoid these types of posts but I have to respond here...

    They aren't untruths, they're perspectives and opinions. He didn't succeed in Germany IMO. He may have only been 17 but he returned home without playing first team football. People can mention sticking it out or not having a chance but why have the argument? I'll settle on it simply not working out, he wanted to come home for various reasons, he did that and was successful in San Jose. The second time around wasn't successful either to me. He had some chances there but they didn't work out. You can blame the coach, circumstance and everything else but to me the player also should shoulder some of the blame and isn't immune to it. He went back this time to LA where he did well.

    Munich was a loan so it's not too easy to say he failed. But there were reports prior to the move that he wanted to stay and look for something long term because of various reasons (some of which would come to light in the spring/summer). He didn't make much of an impact and he did have some opportunities there. Limited though they may have been, it's more than some got and it's an incredibly tough club to break into. It was probably never going to happen because of the circus and turmoil that has always been Bayern Munich. He would have had to have put in wonderkind performances in the time he did get which was too much to ask.

    Well, that's your opinion. I understand that you're a pretty big Landon Donovan fan and don't like any form of criticism of the player, as many fans are. Fair enough but that won't stop people from having the right to look at things in other ways or being critical if they want. Just because they don't agree with you, it doesn't make their perspective 'stupid', or their interpretations lies. That is, they're no more stupid or untrue than your own opinions about him.

    I just think it's odd that you would hold on to this type of thinking because it's discrediting the great form he's shown in Everton. He was a major contributor to their victory over Chelsea, to their draw with Arsenal and other results as well. He was clever, played smart, worked hard. He's had some tough times in Europe. Even he will tell you that and has. But he's learned from his times in Germany, he's learned from his time in MLS and is a better player because of all of it. Those are positive things. He's learned, grown, and using the good and bad experiences today. Why not focus on the many new positives?

    If Donovan moves on to Europe, it'll be done professionally by people in the business who are probably a bit mroe aware of things than most fans. Sure, it didn't work in Germany and they may consider it - they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't. Hell, would you spend the same money Man. City did for Jo right now? But ultimately what should win out is their confidence in the player to perform. If he proves he's worth taking the financial gamble... and I have to say he's doing a very good job of this right now... then it'll work itself out.
     
  2. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    it would have been illegal at the time. You had to be 18 to play in the bL at that time.
     
  3. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Why do you repeat this with no evidence? Can you show us this law that makes it "illegal"?

     
  4. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    North Ridgeville, OH
    I have no idea if there was a rule prohibiting players under 180from playing in Germany at the time. I do know that Landon was 19 when he joined MLS in the spring of 2001. So at a minimum he had been ok to play for a year...so can we drop this now?

    And anyone who thinks his first stint in europe has ANY relevance to his value today is an idiot.
     
  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Na, Landycakes officially died weeks ago. Now it's Landolakes.....because ever since he arrived in England he's been butter.

    Sky Sports has given him the same player rating average this season as Didier Drogba, Wayne Rooney, and Cesc Fabregas. I don't think he's as good as those world class players, but that should put in perspective how well he's fared to this juncture.

    Yet, some Everton fans don't think he's good enough to be in the starting lineup for them when everyone returns from injury.

    The fact of the matter is unless they hit you over the head with a metal bat to provide proof, Americans will always be viewed with skepticism by a contingent of fans across the pond. I doubt it'd be the same if he were Albanian, even though their contributions internationally and domestically have paled in comparison. I thought some Liverpool fans caught the sentiment perfectly, when, upon hearing the rumors that they were interested in Lando, rudely made comments like he should go back to the States where he belongs and be a wide receiver.

    That's why his 10 week stint is so important to American football. Otherwise some overseas can still rationalize that if the face of the sport in America can't cut it in the top leagues of Europe, just about nobody else with the same background could.
     
  6. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Quote of a lifetime. This is awesome.
     
  7. Arteta's Girl

    Arteta's Girl Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Liverpool, UK
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Not from all the forums I read. It's a small minority who don't, if so.
     
  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read it on "Grand Old Team" in the "Sir Landon of Donovan" thread. One poster made the comment basically verbatim, while a few others were even more negative about him, worrying he was inadequate in part because he doesn't have the quickness for a counterattack. :D You're cool though, and I liked the majority of fans that I read. I wonder the responses if he was starting for a top 4 club like Liverpool. My guess is there would be a lot of self loathing right now.
     
  9. toddk15

    toddk15 Guest

    Bruce is not very smart. He still thinks the entire T&T team plays or starts in the EPL. No matter how many times you ask him for evidence he just keeps throwing shit at the wall.
     
  10. Arteta's Girl

    Arteta's Girl Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Liverpool, UK
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Thats just a few though mate, the overall gauging opinion I get over the forums is very, very positive.

    Put it this way, if he moved to another English club, I'd be pretty mad.
     
  11. Mr. Bandwagon

    Mr. Bandwagon Member

    May 24, 2001
    the Barbary Coast
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first time Donovan was in Germany he was a teenager and he didn't play, but teenagers almost never get playing time in the BL. He hated it and wanted to leave.

    The second time he went to Germany, he played some for Lev and was okay. He stayed only for about two months before arranging a permanent sale back to MLS b/c he didn't want to be there. He also had a girlfriend in LA and a team there that wanted him a lot mroe then Lev did.

    The third time he went to Germany it was just a short term off season loan last year to Bayern. He played some and was decent. When he got back to MLS he was playing at a very high level and said it had been a useful experience for him.

    While he never made it in Germany, he certainly had the talent to make it eventually, but he didn't have the drive and he had other options which he preferred.

    In the end, I think any European will see his time in MLS as failure because they automatically discount it as a weak league, but he developed more in MLS than he ever did in the BL, he's a very rich man already, he got to play in his home town, marry his sweetheart, captain the local team, etc. etc. - life was good. It's hard not to see his time in MLS as a pretty sweet deal to be honest.

    Now he's older, has cut some of his personal ties to the U.S. and is amenable to move abroad if the right situation comes around. He's playing well enough to earn some transfer interest. All the stuff in the past seems largely irrelevant to me.
     
  12. irish56

    irish56 Member+

    Oct 30, 2006
    indy
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. dsp87260

    dsp87260 New Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    That article is from 2006. FIFA's rule that it talks about was created around 2003/2004 (IIRC...it was brand new around the time Freddy was signing with MLS).

    Bruce has made it pretty clear (in previous posts and threads) that it's not this rule he's talking about, but some German specific rule that he's absolutely sure exists/existed (but probably doesn't/didn't)...
     
  14. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now that's an understatement. :p
     
  15. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I don't know where it is but I will bet you just about anything. It wasn't a point of debate in 1999, just the way it was. It MIGHT have been for foreign players. I wonder if BLT would remember.
     
  16. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 5, 2007
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I completely agree with your general thesis, but I think CC is prototypical for the bottom half of EPL. At about, say, Blackburn in the Table, and below he is a serious contributor. Probably a starter. Big, bullish, guy who can play up top by himself, knock down long balls with his head and score the occasional junk goal. Hell, in Portsmouth - Wigan he'd be man of the match.
     
  17. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't have the "quickness for a counterattack"? I guess I could understand them questioning his toughness, or his resume (or lack thereof), or something else, but his "quickness for a counterattack"?

    Boy, they smoke some funny stuff over there...
     
  18. Pass-n-Go

    Pass-n-Go Member+

    Jul 5, 2008
    Left-Eye mad?
     
  19. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    NV
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suspect LD is renting.
     
  20. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 11, 2006
    I thought Arteta had a poor match. He lost the ball at midfield often. Osman on the other hand was pretty good all match.
     
  21. HattrickStriker

    Feb 19, 2006
    Area 51 & 52
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And he and Bianca split up, right? Not much holding him back except contract terms and provisions. He's much more focused and has been welcomed with open arms at Everton. It's the first time that he has felt like he belonged. Hope he can extend his stay at Everton!
     
  22. thejuggernaut

    thejuggernaut Member

    Mar 25, 2007
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A quick comparison in awards in case people don't realize the difference .

    Bellamy hasn't had too many chances to win the EPL MVP for reasons that it has quite often been won by THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD.

    Landon Donovan has won the MLS MVP, which in the past was lofted by such legends... like Taylor Twellman.

    And as for the 6-time Honda awards. Didn't Jeff Agoos almost win one of them??
     
  23. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was the rule that prohibited Landon from making first team appearances until he was 18 due to his passport. German players can make first team appearances at a much younger age although I'm not sure country by country the rules (some seem to have a bottom age, most don't as far as I know).

    People bashing Bruce over this either just totally forget Big Soccer circa 1999 and 2000 or weren't there. I was there and remember some of the discussions. I would guess if we could call on people like Ben Reilly, Chris Sullivan, and the like that were avid back then they might remember some of this too.

    Although I have to admit...over time Bruce S and Karl Keller seem to becoming closer in opinions to me. Differing opinions are what makes a discussion forum though.
     
  24. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    I have no axe to grind about any of this crap. It was just a rule that was in place then.
     
  25. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hope that I didn't intimate that you do or did.
     

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