Yeah Cavani was useful in qualifying, especially in helping make sure Uruguay beat the teams they are supposed to (Bolivia, Venezuela, Paraguay, etc.). But I would really like to see Cavani step-up in a big tournament for once. Maybe 2018 will be his time, but up until now he's basically the Uruguayan Higuain.
That Higuain still has the last hat-trick at a World Cup. I feel Cavani performs better with Suarez, but Suarez usually out-performs him when it matters during a game. Hopefully they can both combine to take Uruguay far. I'm not knowledgeable of any Young Guns for them. But Impressive for a country of 4 million to have 2 of the top 10 strikers of the 2000's.
Suárez used to play wide. If it hadnt been for his time at Ajax, he might never have developed into a striker.
Impressive indeed, but its not so clear to me Cavani is top 10 of the 2000s. Even if we discount Ronaldo (perhaps because a few of his best years were in late 1990s) Henry, Eto, RvN and Shevchenko already lay claims to 4 of the 10 spots. In the latter half, all of Suarez, Ibrahimovic and Lewandowski certainly come out ahead. That leaves just 3 spots. This now gets very tricky to choose. There have been so many good strikers in the past 18 years competing for the final 3 spots. The likes of Rooney and David Villa come to mind. There's intense competition from the Argentine duo of Higuain and Aguero as well. Is Cavani clearly better than Diego Costa? I'm sure there are names I can't remember in this moment. Point is, Cavani is not a guarantee top 10 like Suarez, imho.
I think this is a bit harsh if you look at Cavani his actual scoring record. In 2010 he didn't play in a central position either. It is also not like that Suarez consistently scores against the top opponents - he doesn't. https://www.transfermarkt.nl/edinson-cavani/nationalmannschaft/spieler/48280 https://www.transfermarkt.nl/luis-suarez/nationalmannschaft/spieler/44352 His scoring record against the top teams is as good if not better than Suarez (but yes, his two goals against England in 2014 counts for something, for something more than goals at the Confederations Cup against Italy or Brazil). Well, it is not the only thing but to his credit; Cavani has had five seasons where he scored more than 30 goals (including three of them at Serie A). His scoring record at the Champions League gets a pass, too. Ibrahimovic has four (all of them after the age of 29). One for Milan, three for PSG. Those three arrived in the seasons Cavani scored less than 25 and in the season Cavani wasn't there yet. Luis Suarez has three (or four when including his Ajax spell). The one year younger Lewandowski has three. He's the better footballer surely, overall a better ball player than Cavani, but is that reflected in the accolades and honors? Remarkably that is not the case I think. Higuain (same age) has two. Rooney has two. Aguero has two. Diego Costa has one. David Villa has one. Cavani is however among the weaker footballers of this set.
Suárez used to assist Huntelaar from the right. They were the 2 players that made things happen. When Huntelaar went abroad, Suárez was the best player left. That's why they played him as striker. He was always capable of scoring difficult goals. But in the beginning he missed a lot of easy chances. With experience he improved this imperfection. I rate him as one of, if not, the best RW in Ajax history but not as a striker. Partly because he doesn't fit the 433 target striker role and partly because of his (earlier) lack of a killer instinct.
Ajax played 4-4-2 during many games he was there. In particular under Ten Cate and later Jol. This was part of the flak the club received. After Jol and lopsided/egocentric Suarez left, Ajax won four titles in a row, after a nine years dry spell. It was in Suarez his interest to move higher up, not to let his team win, and many times he played accordingly. He was always focused on winning penalties and scoring goals. That needs to be said and observed.
Agreed, except I would put Villa in the top 10 easily. Maybe even top 5. Cavani is more like top 25-30. He’s at a whole other (lower) level from the 7 you’ve mentioned, plus Aguero, Villa, Drogba, RVP and Torres (even if we ignore Raul, and R9 who had most of their career in the 2000s) And that isn’t even suggesting that Cavani is #13, just that he’s in that next group of 10-15 strikers.
National team: agree. Top 10, possibly top 5. But would you say the same (i.e. "easily") for club career and his Champions League record? Is that similarly easy? And in footballing skills?
I would because his finishing was as clinical as anyone's this century, and that's the main skill required of that position. Using his CL record is a bit unfair because he played mostly at 'smaller' clubs during his prime years. By the time he got to Barca & Atletico it was a bit off his prime, but he still did alright at Barca at least. And of course had consistently a 0.5 GpG average while playing for Zaragoza and Valencia for 7 years, back when it was difficult to maintain a 0.5 average for so long.
You're right. I meant to write 2010's. For 2000's yeah it'd have Villa, Eto'o, Henry, Van Nistlerooy, Shevchenko and maybe Zlatan though his goalsfest went Insane starting in 2010. For 2010's Sureaz, Lewandowski, Ibra. Then we have Kane, Falcao, Higuain, Benzema also in the mix.
Didn't Drogba and Rooney only have like 2 seasons where they scored 20 plus goals in the PL? I recall Fernando Torres had one season where he scored 18 league goals in 22 matches due to injuries.
If you deduct penalties, then Aguero has only one season over 20 league goals too. My overview above is across all club competitions (30+ goals in a season).
He has to be like the most underrated striker at a huge club ever. I never see him in a top 5 ranking of best strikers today
So for me top of 2010's Suarez, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski, Higuain, Aguero, RVP, Cavani, Falcao, Benzema, Kane of 2000's Raul, Shevchenko, Henry, Van Nistlerooy, Ibrahimovic, Villa, Torres, Eto'o, Rooney, Forlan
RvP only has peak going for him. Injury robbed him of the possibility of being considered for this list, imho. Had he stayed injury free, he could easily put up multiple seasons with 20+ goals. Personally, I am a big fan of Drogba. Obviously he doesn't have the goals to compete with the others, but in a way, he did his job just as well, if not better than many strikers. As Chelsea's target man, he really facilitated the likes of Robben, Lampard, and Duff. He did come up with some big big performances as well. Probably the best big-game striker of the 2000s.
Truly a fantastic but underappreciated player due to the fact that he's a dickhead. Does not need the team to be built around him to deliver with elite performances and carry his teams to victory. I'd personally put him abrove Ibrahimovic.
Many injuries take something away from him (and agree Drogba deserves to be considered), but there are still good things in his favor I'd say; By most accounts (read for ex. 'The Jitty Slitter' at other sections of the forum) he belongs in skill, creativity, variety, touch and technique among the top of this group. Maybe/probably not quite at Ibrahimovic level I'd say, but still high up and close to the top. In footballing pedigree he'd rank high, despite not being the best athlete by any means. In the years he wasn't a striker (pre-2010), he ranks very high for chances per game (per 90 minutes) and also the through balls (in the Premier League at least, since they started to count in 2003). Certainly/factually higher than Rooney, higher than many others when they weren't designed to be the main goalscorer (for better clubs). His Champions League record is fine. Has almost twice as many goals as David Villa (another striker to not play for the best clubs), has a better knockout stage record than Ibrahimovic (Ibra's weak point, his KO stage production). I don't mean to imply he's of the same class as Ibra. Ibra's UCL record is a pity, because based on league level and also what he did for Sweden at tournaments (and outside tournaments) with some spectacular goals (vs Italy, vs Greece, vs Spain was a good goal too) there is a great argument for putting him at #3 for the 2005-2015 era (ahead of Xavi, ahead of Iniesta, ahead of etc.). RVP has two 30+ goals seasons. Drogba has three, indeed, but for example Aguero has two too, Rooney has two. Henry has five (Falcao has three). It is not as bad as it looks, and he wasn't really a striker before 2010 (which the 2009-10 through balls count tends to born out), and certainly not with Adebayor still there in the typical Wenger/EPL set up. His 'WhoScored' ratings are consistently higher than Rooney between 2009 and 2013 (also higher than Aguero). Now, WS is not the ultimate arbiter, but that this happens for a few years in a row while also alternating a bit in jobs/role/position is pretty revealing.
You don't have to sell me RvP. I waited years for him to duo up with Cesc. That duo would have delivered some great football. You're right that he was more than just a goalscorer as well. When he arrived, many people saw him as a replacement for Bergkamp, such as his technical abilities. His ball control, shooting, passing, and crossing were all top level with his left foot. He had a magical left-foot. Having said that, he HAD to become a striker though, to reach his peak. He had a tendency to dwell on the ball, and took too many touches. He never had Bergkamp's intelligence. Not even close. So he could never be the 2nd forward that Bergkamp was. You put him up front, in the box, and he was absolutely lethal. That's because 1) He could finish all kind of chances. Watch the goals he scored for us and for Fergie's last season, and many of the goals he scored he had no business scoring. 2) He improved his movement to world-class level. I think Fergie himself said RvP has the best movement of any striker he's ever managed, and the man managed RvN!
As you mention, in his own way Drogba was 'more than a goalscorer' as well. If you look at the non-penalty goals + assists per 90 minutes, then Drogba ends near the top (same for RVP, who is at the top for 2005-2015). Yeah there are two compilations pre-2009 on YT (vs Chelsea, vs Portsmouth) and there he does seem to release the ball quickly, but I remember having the impression of dwelling indeed, more so when near/on the wings. Cristiano and LM10 were quite a ball hog early in their careers, too (as proven by several people before). In some cases Rooney and such become a victim of their versatility. It wouldn't make much sense to put Adebayor at a #10-ish position, or one of the two on the bench. The more so with Wenger having (still has) not a deep squad - as shown by various routs suffered in the UCL when Arsenal had many injuries or suspensions. Anyway, like I said, a pity that Ibra's UCL (knock out) record is so meh (for his standards, and standards of other top class strikers).
I made a search on whether that finishing can be backed up by evidence, and got to say that for 2009-2011 that is true. His shooting accuracy, conversion and also big chances conversion/missed is above the grain. It was between 2009-2011 and then briefly in 2013 even cited as the best of La Liga. True (for Spain NT it was at times a different story, not always, but for example vs Portugal 2010 IIRC). As for 0.50 goals per game seasons: he had that in 2005-06, and 2007-2010 overall (+ 2010-11 for league). Not for Real Zaragoza though, but Valencia and then Barcelona. Four seasons in total. Samuel Eto'o had that more often (seven seasons), but yes, he also played more seasons for stronger teams and wasn't as good a finisher (I agree). On the other hand: he accomplished 0.50 gpg twice for Real Mallorca, while David Villa didn't do something similar at similar teams (i.e. Real Zaragoza). Eto'o has three 30+ goals seasons in his career (twice in PD, once in Serie A), Villa once. Eto'o also tended to assist more (although when Villa ended up at FCB out of position, he did just as good/better). Consequentially Eto'o his non-penalty goals + assists per game (or per 90 minutes) is quite a bit better, but true that it were comparatively 'smaller' clubs for Villa.
It's a shame David Villa is so underrated by so many. Dude was a one-man scoring machine prior to his move to Barca. Gotta admire the attacking lineup Barca had in the past 10 years lining up with Messi. Eto'o, Henry, Ibrahimovic, Villa, Sanchez, Suarez. Not too shabby overall. Neymar as well, though not a striker.
Here a non-penalty goals + assists per 90 minutes overview (thus excl. penalties) that I made for EPL players (for their career there). Not all of them strikers, or strikers throughout their stay. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/best-football-players-of-all-time.2011432/page-51#post-35882756
Suarez vs Lewandowski which is the best striker of the 2010's? Both are insanely consistent for club and country that would be a great discussion