At Level 8 there are six leagues such as Northern Premier League Division One North. At Level 9 there are fourteen leagues. The only way every Level 8 league could relegate the same number of clubs and every Level 9 league could promote the same number of clubs is if Level 8 leagues relegated 7 clubs each and Level 9 leagues promoted 3 clubs each or a multiple of that such as 14 and 6. Since I doubt leagues relegate seven clubs, how does promotion and relegation work?
It has to do with finances and ground-grading, and whether teams are actually capable of competing at the higher level. At the beginning of each season all the Level 9 clubs who would like to be promoted announce their intention to move up a division, should they end up winning or coming second in their league. It's not mandatory to do this for any club, and it often happens that a club which didn't apply for promotion wins the division. During the course of the season each club who has applied for promotion has their finances inspected and their ground graded by members of the FA and representatives from the Northern Premier League, Southern League and Ithsmian league. They are all given a rating: some pass and don't have to do anything, others fail the grading and then have a certain length of time to make the necessary ground improvements (things like floodlights, crowd safety and security, public facilities etc.) and/or improve their financial status to meet the standards of a Level 8 league. At the end of the season, the 28 teams (each division's champion and runner-up) are looked at again - the ones which didn't apply for promotion in the first place are discounted, as are the ones which failed to make the necessary stadium improvements or meet the financial requirements. Usually, that leaves 7 or 8 teams which applied for promotion at the beginning of the season AND which pass all the Level 8 grading requirements AND which finished in the top 2 in their division. These teams are then promoted to the closest geographical Level 8 league. To balance this, the worst 7-8 from across Level 8 (the bottom team from each league, and then say the two next-worst teams) are relegated to Level 9 (they don't have a choice). Then, working on the basis of the best geographic distribution, teams are moved around so that each Level 8 division has 22 teams.
Post above pretty much sums it up. The bottom two teams from each level 8 (or step 4, as it is usually referred to as) league are supposed to be relegated at the end of each season. In reality this never happens due to there not being enough teams wanting to move up from step 5, and teams going bust, or being relegated through from above. Step 1 is the Conference, the highest level of non-league football. Step 2 conf north/south etc. etc.
Thank you. I'm surprised only a quarter or a little more than that of the possible promotion spots are used.
I think they allow a max of 18-up-18-down in any given year. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that each Level 9 division finished with the top 2 in each division having applied for promotion and passed the requirements. With 18-up-18-down, the bottom 3 from each Level 8 league would go down, and the 14 divisional champs plus the four best second place teams would go up. They work it out on a formula for average # points per game, because not all L9 divisions have the same number of teams. And, actually, looking at the stats, I was wrong before - more teams come up each year than I thought. 12 teams came up at the end of 2009-10 (NEEDHAM MARKET, FAVERSHAM TOWN, WHITEHAWK, BARWELL, NEWCASTLE TOWN, RAINWORTH MINERS WELFARE, AYLESBURY, DAVENTRY TOWN, NORTH GREENFORD UNITED, ALMONDSBURY TOWN, BIDEFORD and WIMBORNE TOWN). 12 teams came up at the end of 2008-09. 17 teams came up at the end of 2007-08. So, yeah, it's actually a pretty comprehensive chaneover each year at the bottom of the pyamid.
If a Level 9 champion is not able to be promoted and the second place club in that league can be promoted, does the promotion spot get passed down within the league or does the second place club have to be compared to all the other Level 9 second place clubs?
There is no provision for 18-up, 18-down. There are two relegation places in each of the six step four leagues, making a total of twelve. In practice there are usually several repreives for these teams, since teams further up the pyramid go bankrupt, fail ground gradings, merge with other teams, or decide that they want to play at a level with less travelling and more local matches.
The top team from that league gets promoted as long as some people have said the ground is up to scratch.The teams who finished in 2nd,3rd,4th,5th play in a play off with 2nd v 5th and 3rd v 4th then a final which could be played at a neutral venue or the team which finished highest in the league.
There are also some teams which suffer heavy travelling costs due to more London based teams in the southern divisions.
Droylsdenfan, you are getting your steps mixed up. The question is about promoting into the lower tiers of the NPL, SL and IL.
I know this topic is old, but I discovered something to answer my original question. With six leagues at Level 8 (Step 4) and fourteen leagues at Level 9 (Step 5), there is no way for promotion and relegation to affect 4 or fewer clubs per league with all Level 8 clubs relegating the same amount of clubs and all Level 9 clubs promoting the same amount of clubs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_football_league_system#The_system says that at Level 8, Isthmian League Division One North and Isthmian League Division One South relegate 3 clubs each, while the other four leagues at that level relegate 2 clubs each. That's a total of 14 relegated clubs, which is how many leagues there are at Level 9.
Promotion and Relegation in Argentina as of 2004 I keep crap like this that interests me at the time. First of all, Argentinian leagues have what we call "Promedios de Descenso" (something like Relegation Average). It consideres each team's performance during the last three years. Currently in Argentina, it's like this: Team Ap.01/Cl.02 Ap.02/Cl.03 Ap.03/Cl.04 Pts/Gms Average Boca Juniors 68/38 79/38 67/31 214/107 2.000 River Plate 84/38 79/38 49/30 212/106 2.000 Racing Club 71/38 53/38 45/30 169/106 1.594 San Lorenzo 57/38 56/38 49/31 162/107 1.514 Quilmes 46/31 46/31 1.483 Vélez Sarsfield 48/38 66/38 44/31 158/107 1.476 Colón (SF) 56/38 57/38 44/31 157/107 1.467 Banfield 48/38 48/38 48/31 144/107 1.345 Newell's 51/38 49/38 43/31 143/107 1.336 Gimnasia (LP) 64/38 46/38 32/31 142/107 1.327 Rosario Central 40/38 62/38 40/31 142/107 1.327 Independiente 41/38 61/38 39/31 141/107 1.317 Lanús 51/38 51/38 36/31 138/107 1.289 Arsenal 49/38 39/31 88/69 1.275 Estudiantes (LP) 54/38 43/38 33/31 130/107 1.214 Talleres (Cba) 30/38 44/38 48/31 122/107 1.140 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Olimpo (BB) 49/38 29/31 78/69 1.130 Chacarita Jrs. 47/38 41/38 29/31 117/107 1.093 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nueva Chicago 48/38 41/38 24/31 113/107 1.056 Atlético Rafaela 29/31 29/31 0.935 To understand this, here are a few tips: * Each year is considered according to the European football calendar. Thus, the European 2003-04 season equals our Apertura 2003-Clausura 2004 season. Then, Apertura 2001-Clausura 2002 means Season 2001-02, and so on. * Each season has two numbers, separated by a /. The first number indicates points won. The second one, matches played. * Pts/Gms indicates the total obtained by considering all three seasons as a whole. Then you divide points by games, and you have your average. * River and Racing have one match left because of a non-played match during the Apertura 2003, that will be played in May or June, I pressume. * Olimpo, Quilmes, Arsenal and Rafaela have some empty columns because they were at Primera B Nacional during that time (a lower division), and not at Primera A. * The last two teams are directly relegated to Primera B Nacional. * Two teams are directly promoted from Primera B Nacional: One from a clash between the Apertura champion and the Clausura champion. If the team is the same, that team is promoted. Then, you must gather the top 8 teams considering their points in both tournaments (Apertura and Clausura), and they play a 8-team playoffs. The winner is also promoted. * The 17th and the 18th squads must play "Promoción" (Promotion). * The best two non-promoted teams from Primera B Nacional considering their points in both tournaments must play "Promoción". * Promoción are two matches (Home-Away) played between one Primera A team and one Primera B Nacional team. The draw benefits the Primera A team. If the quantity of goals scored is the same for both teams, you can't decide based on Away goals. So, if the Primera B Nacional team plays at home and ties 0-0, and then ties 1-1, it still benefits the Primera A team. * If a team plays Promoción or is directly relegated, they cannot play International Competition, even if they have qualified for them. * A team will not be relegated or play Promoción if they win the Apertura or the Clausura of the last column (that is, in the current championship, Apertura 2003 and Clausura 2004). Also, a Champion team can play International Competitions. It'll be easier with an example: For instance, if Talleres wins the championship, they won't play Promoción, in case they are 17th or 18th. Then, the 16th squad plays Promoción. And if they have qualified for an International Tournament, they'll play it, in spite of being in a Promoción spot, just because they are the Champions. * With the following season, the first column (2001/02) will be eliminated, and a new column (2004/05) will be added. That modifies the situation quite a bit, as, for example, Independiente will be a lot higher, and Gimnasia a lot lower (because you eliminate Independiente's bad 2001/02, and Gimnasia's excellent 2001/02). Pros of the system: * You are relegated because of THREE consecutive bad campaigns, and not because of one. That gives you enough time to rebuild your team and organize it. For instance, Leeds United wouldn't be fighting for Relegation at EPL with this system. It's good if you think how painful the relegation is for Argentinian fans, which is considered almost like a tragedy. * Allows teams like Boca and River not to worry about relegation, and to perform well at International Competitions, as they have enough points to be safe. * Recently promoted teams, as will be said in the cons, have a hard time at Primera A. But if they manage to acquire a nice share of points, like Quilmes did (currently 46), or Arsenal and Olimpo did last year (49 both of them), they are safe for, at least, a couple of years (Until that excellent campaign is eliminated from the Relegation Average, like the 2001/02 column will be the following season). If Quilmes performs like Arsenal is doing, collecting a decent quantity of points, they'll probably be safe for some years. If not, you'll be in Olimpo's situation, at Promoción: Olimpo had an excellent 2002/03, but their 2003/04 has been awful, and now they are suffering. Cons of the system: * Teams recently promoted have a VERY hard time at Primera A, and they are usually the following year. As they have less matches to count from, they need lots of points. If not, they are like Rafaela is right now, last, because of not being able to win enough points. Everybody knows you need some time to establish in a higher division, and this system doesn't take that into account. Funny thing is that Rafaela, if we had a normal relegation system (that is, the last two teams in terms of points being relegated, considering Apertura 2003 and Clausura 2004), may not be relegated. * It's a system that benefits the powerful ones. It was introduced after Racing and San Lorenzo were relegated, and after that, none of the Fav 5 returned to the Second Division. And it's HIGHLY unlikely it'll ever happen. * A team could be relegated because of former bad seasons, in spite of having an excellent one right now, like Talleres in the current championship. * Only the players from the last championship are relegated, and not the ones that played during former seasons and now are not in the club. That means, for instance, that Mauricio Serna (Talleres), who was hired for this tournament, may be relegated in spite of having a great season, while other players (the true responsibles of Talleres situation right now, especially during 2001/02), aren't at the club right now, and won't have a relegation mark in their profiles if Talleres is relegated. * Smaller teams are constantly making predictions of points they need to win, points the others need to lose, calculating averages, etc, which could be tiring, and an enormous pressure for the players. Rafaela, for instance, needs to win around 15 of the last 21 points of the tournament to have a chance of staying at Primera A. And that doesn't guarantee anything. Marcos Schieda.Post a follow-up to this message Message 2 in thread From: Jorge Vergara (jorge_vergara@hotmail.com) Subject: Re: How does Argentinian promotion-relegation system works? View this article only Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer Date: 2004-05-04 13:08:02 PST > > * A team will not be relegated or play Promoción if they win the > Apertura or the Clausura of the last column (that is, in the current > championship, Apertura 2003 and Clausura 2004). Also, a Champion team > can play International Competitions. It'll be easier with an example: > For instance, if Talleres wins the championship, they won't play > Promoción, in case they are 17th or 18th. Then, the 16th squad plays > Promoción. And if they have qualified for an International Tournament, > they'll play it, in spite of being in a Promoción spot, just because > they are the Champions. > Very informative Marcos, thanks. The above was something I was wondering when it looked that Talleres was in the running for the championship a few weeks back