How did Prandelli screw up ???

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by ITALIA1982, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. ITALIA1982

    ITALIA1982 Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Toronto
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #1 ITALIA1982, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
    1. Team cohesion, the team has to bond at least a year prior to the world cup, with minor tuneups at the world cup, just look at the other powerhouses !! Prandelli thought he was smart and would tinker with the lineup the way he likes and make a surprise, doesnt work that way, Arrigo Sacchi was lucky to have Baggio to save his butt

    2. Prandellis final selection was his doomsday
    Aquilani, Motta, Paletta, Cassano, Abate, Parolo, are not nt material
    Rossi, Giovinco, Giaccherini, Montolivo, Maggio are nt material and provide stamina and speed and had the successfull 2013 confed cup experience

    3. once managers show favoritism over technical ability they are doomed , remember lippi with iaquinta

    4. Sirigu over Buffon and Pirlo is finished. time to move on

    5. the bright side is Verrati and Darmian
     
  2. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #2 Pietro Calcio, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
    Montolivo was injured badly before the tournament


    not trying to be rude or a d1ck but there is no need for another prandelli thread....one has already been created and it has over 430 posts as of now...it takes everything about Prandelli into account both before and now....multiple threads on the same topic makes things redundant and confusing

    Cheers!
     
  3. Parcae

    Parcae Member

    Nov 3, 2013
    1. Agree absolutely, but it's not just the tinkering - Prandelli was supposed to be the man who could make Balo behave but he seems to have had absolutely no control over his team.
    2. Of the 5 you wanted him to take, two are benchwarmers for their club teams and the other three were injured. Leaving Rossi home was a huge mistake - he couldn't possibly have been in worse shape than Cassano turned out to be - but, on the whole, the team had plenty of ability. It just didn't have any discipline or fitness.
    3. See 2.
    4. I agree with you on both points, but it's hard to blame our defeats on them.
     
  4. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    My take on Prandelli's tenure as NT allenatore:

    There are many important elements vital to the traditional Italian system of playing. Some of these elements include a combative midfield, a compact and defensively disciplined midfield, world class defending, midfield regista etc.

    But in the final third of the pitch when successful Italy has always played with a system within which it fielded a front two combining the talents of a number 9 (centre forward), and a number 10 (seconda punta or trequartista).
    **I've been watching since Euro '88**
    This has included potent attacking duos like:
    Baggio and Schillaci
    Zola and Casiraghi
    Del Piero and Inzaghi (?)
    Totti and Vieri
    Totti and Toni
    Cassano and Balotelli

    After Euro 2012 Prandelli made an effort to move away from the system that worked so well in 2012, ie. a 10 & 9 upfront. Why?
    Part of it may have been a perception that it was too risky to rely on an unpredictable Cassano.
    Another reason may be that he saw the genuine lack of true number 10s available in Italy (a dying art?) and wanted to have a long term vision for the team.
    Also, the game (mainly outside Italy) has been moving away from the 4-4-2 system with two strikers up-front for a number of years, so perhaps Prandelli was obliged to adapt his system in line with the dominant European systems.

    This is where it began to fall apart. Cassano was ostracised but it didn't matter initially because Osvaldo performed well capably filling that number 10 role. Also Montolivo demonstrated an ability to play as an effective trequartista. However Osvaldo self-destructed and Montolivo moved back into CM where he is more at home and the results stopped coming.

    From there broadly speaking Prandelli adopted and fiddled with two systems (ignoring the 3-5-2 which he only used on 4 occasions in 4 years):
    A 5 man midfield supporting a lone striker and a 4-3-3, with two wide forwards supporting a central striker.
    Neither of these systems were ever effective because they are not traditional Italian systems, they rely on crossing, quick athletic players beating players down the flanks, a high tempo and they isolate the lone striker and make it easier for physical, athletic sides to shut him down. But this is not the Italian way. Italian football is much more about technique than athleticism. Finesse rather than brute power. Fantasia.

    This is Prandelli's failing. Rather than taking the lead. Italian football was torn between following the Spanish tika taka and the Anglo-Germanic run & gun. Prandelli should have stuck with what worked because Serie A and Italian training academies are not yet successful at producing Italian players that can beat foreigners at their own game.

    So he had a choice stick with an outmoded system that worked or try and adapt to a system that he didn't have good enough players for. He mistakenly chose the latter.
     
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  5. krado33

    krado33 Member+

    May 23, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Q. How did Prandelli screw up ???

    1. Not bringing Giacherrini. Most versatile player that can make a 3-5-2 work, or change up the static-CM midfield. Don't know how 'playing regularly' was an issue. Maybe he got black-listed.

    2. Not developing an alternative attack to Balotelli. Injuries played some part, but too often Balo was given games in friendlies/pointless qualifiers for no reason. Either Ciro should've got more opportunity or else just go with a veteran who will do the job.

    3. So concerned about 'fitness' but completely blows it by picking the same team for first 2 games with players exhausted by the 3rd.
     
  6. Persona

    Persona Member

    Feb 24, 2014
    Team just wasn't good enough regardless if they brought the players you wanted. I don't think Rossi, Giovinco, Giaccherini, Montolivo, & Maggio are the difference between beating Costa Rica or beating Uruguay down a man.

    Not even talent with this current group, it's that simple.
     
  7. Cavani7

    Cavani7 Member

    Jan 13, 2011
    Napoli
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Uruguay
    Implosion.
     
  8. ITALIA1982

    ITALIA1982 Member

    Jun 14, 2005
    Toronto
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Not true. it would have made the difference, the margins between winning and losing in this world cup have been a very thin line .
     
    el napulitan and krado33 repped this.
  9. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    but costa rica are awsome, there is no squad or tactics+squad that we could have put together that could have beat them, there isnt even a squad of players we could have put together that could have created even one chance in the 2nd half as oposed to zero.
     
  10. phat

    phat Viking

    Feb 13, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He could have used some of the players he didn't bring. Destro could have been useful for corners against CR. Trying a quick counter here and there could have made a difference. Scoring first and bunkering down.
     
  11. Free Sempre X

    Free Sempre X Member

    Nov 3, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I keep asking myself the same question: what went wrong for the Azzurri in Brazil?

    2nd at Euro 2012, 3rd at Confederations, two straight unbeaten qualifying campaigns. Good veterans (Pirlo, Buffon, De Rossi, Barzagli) and good emerging talent (Verratti, De Sciglio, Darmian). And this was a World Cup with practically no great teams -- Brazil crashed, Spain imploded, most all teams have been flawed and stumbled here or there. There was a massive opportunity for Italy to make a deep run.

    So: what went wrong? Why did we fail?

    I'd love to hear all of your thoughts. Would be nice to get some of the 'senatori' of this forum like DDR and Sardus Pater to weigh in.
     
  12. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    Easy. We didn't have enough Darmians. Players with skill but also capable of running in that heat. Pirlo looked dead after the first game. DDR was very poor in the last two games. We had fresh fast legs on the bench and we barely used them. Cassano was a terrible selection. He was morto. So was Motta.

    Look at Germany. Most of their core players are 23 to 26 years old. They have one senatore in Klose and he doesn't even always play.

    Prandelli managed scared to make bold moves. 20 minutes to Cerci and Insigne is not enough. These are the type if players that can take people on one on one...and they rode the bench.
     
    el napulitan repped this.
  13. Nek Sanalet

    Nek Sanalet Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    Dec 30, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    AC Milan

    The bolded part scares me. 2 years ago at the Euro this German team was being touted as the next great team to replace Spain. We beat them and got to the finals, but the Germans are back this year and will go into the WC finals as the favorites. I could possibly see them going on a Spaniard like run and win the next 3 or 4 big tournaments. Hopefully that doesn't transpire, but with their age and core players being together so long…it is very possible (and doing all this without their best asset Marco Reus). Hopefully, we can get our shit together because we may be the only team mentally that can stop Germany from accomplishing this in the future.

    I do think that Argentina and Netherlands can beat them. And I will be rooting for whoever wins today to do just that. If Germany lose again on sunday then a mental roadblock may develop for this squad going forward….if not it becomes the Azzurri's job to stop another international dynasty from forming.

    I agree with the rest of your post 100% Uaglio.
     
  14. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    i believe one of the biggest factors is prandelli prandelli prandelli, i feel like he couldnt wait to get out of the job and his head and heart wasnt in it, his lack of clear thinking and ideas strengthen my views, there was no logic to anything he did,

    no left footed left back, only one player for left back role despite pasqual of fiorentina doing a great job there last time he played for italy, cassano on as lone striker when a man down, relying on only one man who can score (balo) with another 9 outfield players who cant score or rarely get in the box, i could go on and on, prandelli complained we were not quick enough against costa rice, he said this after feilding motta, DDR and pirlo together, these are not the actions of a man who knows wtf he is doing or has clear ideas, imo it is not rocket science why we failed.

    with a bit of clear thinking and logic we could now be playing in the semi's competing against these other average teams (germany are nothing special but well drilled)
     
  15. krado33

    krado33 Member+

    May 23, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    I'd like to see Argentina win it all but I think they'll have the same weakness against the German team. These teams are too slow to realize that Germany is pressing/preying on quick counters. Pushing your men forward against them is suicide.

    Only the Dutch could stop them at this point.
     
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  16. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    another reason why I would rather have the dutch be in the final to win....I don't think the argies will stop germany
     
  17. Stamos

    Stamos Member

    Apr 6, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    This is where Prandelli failed:

    -Brought Motta, Aquilani and relied too heavily on Balotelli
    -Relied on tiki-taka style of play, which did not suit our talent
    -played Pirlo and DeRossi together, which resulted in a slow midfield

    With that said:

    -if Marchisio didn't get that red card, there is a chance we'd still be rooting for the Azzurri. Takes one domino to fall...

    However, i'm happy Cesare is out - tikiItalia is incredibly boring to watch and I feel (and this tournament supported my theory) that it is ineffective unless your entire 11 can play it.
     
  18. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

    Aug 22, 2007
    LA, California
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    all i know is euro 2012 italy earned their respect back....UNTIL they beat germany....i think after that prandelli lost his mind. blown away by spain, then a bunch of terrible friendly matches and squeezing thru qualifier ( i give him that he qualified the team early ) but somehow he lost his touch with the team. italy played beautiful in euros and to see this team come this low in 2 years is just unbelievable.

    what i hate the most is both him and lippi had tons of time to develop their teams and they didnt. the amount of good friendlies italy played, the confederations cup...they were all great place to practice and find your team. yet it seems like those friendlies did nothing. people from my country (Iran) would give their left nut to have 1/5th of the friendlies italy had to prepare. cuz of politics we dont get shit....so its just so disappointing to see italy keep going down...internationally and the league. year after year you think change will come but it doesnt seem like it.
     
  19. vesuviani

    vesuviani Member+

    Jan 7, 2013
    Toronto
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Prandelli thought



























    That's it.
     
    Falc repped this.
  20. Cannoligol

    Cannoligol New Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    AC Siena
    Scorp what a geniuso_Owhere was the dumb ******** when Italy was struggling to beat Malta 1-0 both games and Azerbaijan by a solitary goal in Italy. We could do well at the Euros but it doesn't change the fact in qualifying we were ********ing horrendous and should have been grilled by the same dumb cunts that blamed Prandelli. ********ing morons. People will say we don't do well in qualifying but even in the past we would smash the likes of Malta and Azerbaijan.
     
  21. Rosay

    Rosay Member+

    May 7, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Proof?
     
  22. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Rosay repped this.
  23. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Wasn't that a question for Cannoligol? :whistling:

    Thu 03/09/15 ECQ Italy 1 - 0 Malta
    Mon 13/10/14 ECQ Malta 0 - 1 Italy
    Tue 26/03/13 WQE Malta 0 - 2 Italy
    Tue 11/09/12 WQE Italy 2 - 0 Malta
    Wed 24/03/93 WQE Italy 6 - 1 Malta
    Sat 19/12/92 WQE Malta 1 - 2 Italy
    Sat 24/01/87 ECQ Italy 5 - 0 Malta
    Sat 06/12/86 ECQ Malta 0 - 2 Italy

    Of 8 meetings, two 5 goal differentials, otherwise the typical 1 or 2 goal wins over minnows.

    Same pattern here against another similarly equipped national team

    Wed 14/10/09 WQE Italy 3 - 2 Cyprus
    Sat 06/09/08 WQE Cyprus 1 - 2 Italy
    Sat 21/12/91 ECQ Italy 2 - 0 Cyprus
    Sat 22/12/90 ECQ Cyprus 0 - 4 Italy
    Thu 22/12/83 ECQ Italy 3 - 1 Cyprus
    Sat 12/02/83 ECQ Cyprus 1 - 1 Italy
    Wed 01/11/67 ECQ Italy 5 - 0 Cyprus
    Wed 22/03/67 ECQ Cyprus 0 - 2 Italy

    Fri 02/09/11 ECQ Faroe Islands 0 - 1 Italy
    Tue 07/09/10 ECQ Italy 5 - 0 Faroe Islands
    Wed 21/11/07 ECQ Italy 3 - 1 Faroe Islands
    Sat 02/06/07 ECQ Faroe Islands 1 - 2 Italy

    Wed 04/06/14 FRI Italy 1 - 1 Luxembourg
    Fri 04/12/81 WQE Italy 1 - 0 Luxembourg
    Fri 10/10/80 WQE Luxembourg 0 - 2 Italy

    Tue 15/10/13 WQE Italy 2 - 2 Armenia
    Fri 12/10/12 WQE Armenia 1 - 3 Italy

    Fri 03/06/11 ECQ Italy 3 - 0 Estonia
    Fri 03/09/10 ECQ Estonia 1 - 2 Italy
    Sat 25/03/95 ECQ Italy 4 - 1 Estonia
    Sat 08/10/94 ECQ Estonia 0 - 2 Italy
    Tue 21/09/93 WQE Estonia 0 - 3 Italy
    Wed 14/04/93 WQE Italy 2 - 0 Estonia

    Tue 11/10/11 ECQ Italy 3 - 0 N. Ireland
    Fri 08/10/10 ECQ N. Ireland 0 - 0 Italy
    Sat 06/06/09 FRI Italy 3 - 0 N. Ireland
    Mon 02/06/03 FRI Italy 2 - 0 N.Ireland
    Tue 21/01/97 FRI Italy 2 - 0 N.Ireland
    Tue 14/01/58 WQE N.Ireland 2 - 1 Italy
    Wed 24/04/57 WQE Italy 1 - 0 N. Ireland

    And how about these guys

    Tue 29/03/05 FRI Italy 0 - 0 Iceland
    Tue 17/08/04 FRI Iceland 2 - 0 Italy

    Italy just doesn't have a tradition of going out and smashing teams, big or small, historically with or without Conte. So why cry about it now?
     
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  24. Cannoligol

    Cannoligol New Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    AC Siena
    Are you thick you dumb ******** obviously so. You're just a but hurt bitch trying to sound smart and pick an argument. First of all, I said the likes. That means teams like them, more notably at home. I even said people will say we don't do well in qualifying but we STILL did smash some teams. What ever. Second, you say of the 8 meetings vs Malta 5 of them were by more than one goal. Exactly ******** stick. 5 out of 6 before these two, these two meetings have just been played you moron ********:ROFLMAO:Your establishing my point even further. You bringing up friendlies vs Iceland you pathetic bitch:ROFLMAO:

    Look at these games, and some of them weren't even minnows

    1996 euro qualifying

    4-0 Lithuania and 2-0
    3-1 Ukraine



    1998 world cup qualifying

    Moldova 3-1 away and 3-0 home

    Poland 3-0

    euro 2000

    wales 4-0 and 2-9

    switerland 2-0



    2002 world cup qualifying

    2-0 Georgia

    3-0 Romania

    4-0 Lithuania

    2-0 Lithuania



    2004 euro qualifying

    Wales 4-0

    Aerbaijan4-0 and 2-0

    Finland 2-0 and 2-0



    2006 world cup qualifying

    2-0 Scotland

    4-1 win in Belarus



    2008 euro


    away wins 3-1 in Georgia 2-0 in Lithuania

    2-0 home wins vs Ukraine, Scotland, and gerogia

    3-1 faroes


    2010


    Bulgaria 2-0 Georgia 2-0 and 2-0

    2-0 Montenegro

    euro 2012

    3-0 Estonia

    5-0 faroes

    3-0 northern Ireland

    2014 world cup qua


    3-1 Denmark

    2-0 malta and 2-0

    3-1 Armenia




    going back to 1994 as you said with that cum ridden mouth of yours we smashed malta 6-1. we beat Estonia 2-0 and 3-0 and had 3-1 wins over Portugal away and Scotland home

    euro 1992 2-0 and 4-0 vs Cyprus and 3-1 vs hungary.

    we had a miserly one game in this qualifying run where we won by more than a goal coming in our second last match away to minnows Aerbiajan whom as I said we've taken care of them comfortably in the past. As for malta 5 times we have beat them by 2 or more, 5 out of 6 before the two games we played them THIS time and the again the point I made. This time we didn't beat them comfortably which we had did in the previous meetings.. To win by 2 goals is at least on the score board a comfortable win.


    Dude, hang it up. You suck not only in life but also at being an internet troll as well:ROFLMAO:


    you're a disgrace to your boyfriend you finocch:alien:
     
    totti fan repped this.
  25. Cannoligol

    Cannoligol New Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    AC Siena
    I'll save you the trouble pauley. You're so predictable


    insert witty come back here

    sock puppet remark


    blah blah blah
     

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