The worst is that this french team seemed to be playing at 70 % of its abilities...They already knew the dutch team after beating them twice last years, and they won another game in the same way without forcing. What is there to come ? France has some crazy youngsters, probably enough material to beat the dutchs for the five/ten coming years.
France was vulnerable today but we lacked the necessary speed of play, movement, and combinations to take advantage. There was space to get into but too much long ball especially when Dost came on. Need the speedy combinations to open them up and pull them out of shape. Defensively Oranje could have done better reading their passing and close them down quicker in my opinion, but I think there is a scared mentality now. For whatever the reason we cannot concentrate for 90 minutes and concede shite goals on top of that too.
Well, this is a young team in transition, and the reality is that the Dutch players are no longer world-beaters... in fact they all play in mid-table clubs (except for Blind). So being pegged down by a quality team with the most expensive player in the world and loaded with stars was somewhat expected. De Vrij and Van Dijk will be a very solid pairing going onwards... both have potential to be top-shelf defenders, and still have plenty room to grow (only 25 years old). Karsdorp is as good as any other RB options (e.g. Janmaat) in offense, and he actually knows how to defend. He is the most encouraging sign I took away from these two matches. He is a lock, as is Blind. Strootman in number 6 is not that bad, he gets the job done and the team needs his leadership/attitude. He needs to get more disciplined and meaner in defending. Wijnaldum and Klaassen are hard workers, but produces little to no outputs. All the other midfield options are not anywhere close the level they are (which is depressing in and itself). Maybe Vilhena. Or Van Ginkel if he ever gets healthy again. Propper was a huge disappointment, too invisible. To me this is the gap that Blind Sr. must do homework on. The trio of Sneijder, Promes and Janssen are good enough against a mediocre team (i.e. any other opponent in the group but France). For the playoffs and tournament, the team desperately need a difference-maker like Robben.
this is the type of comments that makes me wanna break some jaws and this is the the king of mentality that the current management is obsessed with . my first question how long did it take Danny to give Karsdorp the nod. if it was not for the Janmaats injury, dont think he would have selected him. he would have gone for Janmaat and Veltman. My point is he selected Karsdorp when he had no another options and yet he delievered A performance. it just shows its just a matter of giving opportunity to some another players jus like karsdorp. Propper and Klaassen technically have nothing to offer but yet Danny has been adamant on the building the team aroundthem jus because they are only good for teams like belarus and Bulgaria. its only the game like the one vs France that you get to realize how useless and slack ass they are and yet so much time have been spent on them when that could have been spent on others who are well and capable of filling their shoes.. dannys decisions as usually were so ********ed up. first calling Toornstra for injured Narsingh and then shifting klaassen on the wing where he hasnt played at all and then he subs Propper with Willems who hasnt played on the wing also. then why call Vilhnea My second question if Danny can select players who havnt played much (Depay), use players in make shift position, then why not open doors for others players who are well and capable of playing at these positions but will never get the chance jus because they playing in average clubs. these are the players in my mind Nathan Ake, Jerry st Juste, Jens Toornstra, Tjaronn Chery,Marteen De Roon,Ruud Vormer. just like Karsdorp, I can guarntee these guys will also prove critics wrong and show how amateur and fickle minded danny blind is. I know alot will question the clubs which most of the these players are playing but what they offer in terms of technical abilities is what the team needs rather what Danny has been doing trying to build the team around players who in long run have nothing to offer and has been wasting time on them. well todays game definitely raises the curtain on where the team is heading. this team is only good for teams like Andorra, Luxembourg, Belarus,Bulgaria etc and with Robben this Management are under the perception they are good enough reach the WC. timely wakeup call which I hope will bring in some improvment. our next game is a friendly vs Belgium and then Luxembourg is next for the qualifiers. good time to try out some other players and analyze the development of the team. the players are out there.
If you have unreasonable expectations you are simply setting yourself up for disappointment. We can't compete with a team like France - not anymore. We can finish second if we don't make too many mistakes because the rest of the group is weaker than us. I have a feeling that Wijnaldum is going to be our next Winter who got 84 caps for god knows what reason. Or maybe the new Seedorf - plays ok for his league club but does next to nothing for the national side. Stek should have saved that goal, looks like he got overwhelmed by the power of the shot. We have no world class players. Not one.
Well said and I agreed most of what you said, except the last sentence. We have a world class player in Robben, but he is injured too often. If Robben is fit, his presence will open up space for others besides himself as a threat. France is definitely a better team. We had our chances (Janssen, Depay) and failed to be clinical. Virgil has grown into a reliable CB, hopefully he can form a good partnership with De Vrij. Not wanting to blame Bruma but the goal started with his giveaway. Karsdorp's play is a positive note. I also like Janssen's performance. Hope for a win but ok with the expectation to fight for second.
Unreasonable expectation? Show Danny Blind the door,then you see how the expectations will raise from no where. If the game would have ended in a draw nobody would have pointed a finger at anyone .
Klaassen is shit but he scores goals and assist with Ajax...Propper is good with PSV and plays CL . Is it fair to call a Queens park rangers above them ? No. Ake is a sub with Bournemouth, he is getting worse and worse...St Juste should move to a big club before to judge him, if we call St Just because he is good with Heerenveen than we can call any Heracles or Groningen clown that scores 10/15 goals a season, and there are a lot... Vormer and De Roon could be given chances but I don't rate them high, especially De Roon. I would agree with you if you said that Toornstra, Fer, Brenet or Vilhena deserve to get as much playing time as Klaassen or Veltman does though. The Ajax players obviously have priority above others without any good reason. But other than that Blind is calling la creme from the dutch football unfortunetaly. He doesn't ignore any player that is playing with Real or Bayern, no, he calls the ones who play regularly at a high level. Which includes Wijnaldum, Strootman... Van Basten and Van Gaal used to ignore some big players for personnal or tactical reasons but Blind doesn't.
Oh I was commenting on the side as it was put out against France. Robben is definitely world class - I'd put him in our top 10 national team players ever actually.
You call those gang clowns but didn't they look like clowns themselves today ,what's the difference. When van dijk was at Celtic nobody even looked at him. Look at him now. Nobody says he was at Groningen or Celtic. How many of them were in front of him back then but yet he has surpassed everyone . But that aside what do you think transformed him into what he is now. Van dijk should always be a bench mark to never look down on players playing in average team or league.
Football is a chain. You call the players at the top of it first. Moussa Dembele is doing great with Celtic and yet France has never even thought about him. Why ? Because he plays in the rubbish scottish league. If he's that great there he'll make a good move like Van Dijk did and then will eventually be called up (I heard England wants to naturalize him...) You're looking at the problem from the wrong side. There are enough mediocre players called nowadays, even a guy like Letschert made the selection because he was good with Utrecht, while he would never dream of it 10 or 20 years ago because he was good with Where is he now ? On the bench of Sassuolo. Woaw. Is that what you want for the NT ? To call any well performing eredivisie clown... I'm personnally for the opposite, I think a player should have at least 50 eredivisie games with PSV/Ajax/Feyenoord and some european games before to wear the oranje shirt. The problem is our current squad now is that it's full of players from Stoke City, Fenerbahce and Ajax. We don't need to make it worse by calling Heerenveen or Queens Park players.
Propper and Klaassen, le sigh... not hard to see why we don't score for the first time in 12 matches! I do think Clasie next to or a little deeper than Strootman, and then Wijnaldum where Propper was above, might have helped us keep the ball more in the middle.. but maybe Proppers CL experience gets him the call. Still, I suppose the difference in quality and athleticism in the midfield was probably not going to be hidden. France should deservedly take top spot, need to really focus to take full points on other matches to get back on top of Sweden. Even though our quality is short on France now, we are still much better than Sweden Bulgaria and Belarus! Let’s make sure we get results to prove
He actually can play some possession & was pretty decent trying his best. How can you do anything with Klaassen & Wijnaldum in midfield & people like Depay upfront. He played the 6 while he is 8 & worked hard - He will get better & will be a top TOP CM (maybe a bit slow) when he will be playing top mid-fielders. Anyone remember Xavi only majorly took off when he had Iniesta & Toure/Biscuit with him ! He was always very talented & showed promise but when you put 2 really good midfielders with him, you understand how good this is.
I agree with you on Stek, he does make good saves & is reliable! I was talking about Donny Van De Beek in CM. Nouri I understand with Ziyech it will be difficult, although like De Bruyne & Silva they could co-exist in some matches! You are right about Bruma & Stroot too - But I just feel GK must take responsibility for errors directly leading to goal. What do you think Riedewald? I think he should be there inplace of Clasie who never starts for his club & he should be starting for Ajax as well!
Just to add further to our misery, Karsdorp has a broken shoulder blade: http://m.telegraaf.nl/article/26780643/karsdorp-laat-foto-s-maken-van-schouderblad
The French players are scattered all over the big leagues which means they have wide group of players to chose from including their own league compared to the dutch players. In Every position they have got atleast 3 players competing for the spot. Besides that Dembele is still 20 and the line in front of him is a very long one which if you compare with Van Dijk case was different.he moved to Celtic for bigger adventures CL and EL which he would not have gained at Groningen but again this was seen as down grade compared to playing in eredivisie. Then you said about football is a chain and you call the playets on top it first.Payets move from Marseille to westham was heavily cristiced as embrassing one by the French Football but yet he made the cut in the French Squad.west ham is third last now in EPL standings but he still made the cut and there are players like Coman who plays for Bayern and Martial who plays for man united but get to sit on the bench. Its quite contradictory to what you saying see. Payer was 28 when he made the move. The Dutch scenario is different there is hardly any competition for spots and nor the players are scattered in others leagues which can enhance competition for spots or maybe they don't wanna do it unless somebody gets injured. Danny is trying to maintain the continuity around some players and when somebody gets injured.no plan B.this is when he forced to make changes and what happened vs France today is the end result. Any player who is above average in eredivise and not playing for PSV and Ajax has no chance of making to NT even though they are better than them. Either they make the move abroad or rot in eredivisie.[
[QUOTE="Mr.S, post: 34691190 What do you think Riedewald? I think he should be there inplace of Clasie who never starts for his club & he should be starting for Ajax as well![/QUOTE] Riedewald non selection was mysterious one for me.agree he should have started the game based on his performance at Ajax.its beyond my knowledge how the selection criteria works.
It wasn't that bad. France was better but still, I think we should have a draw. We definitely should secure 2nd place although the playoffs could be very tough. Since we are ranked in the mid 20's on the FIFA rankings the opponent will be good. By the way, Karsdorp did very well at RB and fortunately his shoulder injury isn't that bad.
It's a broken shoulder bone, how bad does it have to get???? Luckily we don't have any more qualifiers till March
This highlights the problem. Riedewald keeps getting bounced around at Ajax between central defense and holding MF. Now he is playing second fiddle to Schöne who doesn't even start for the Danish NT. Riedewald needs to play first team football consistently in order to get the necessary experience for the NT. Look at the U-21 team that had el Ghazi, Riedewald, Bazoer and Tete on it. All for players got call ups to the NT last year (maybe prematurely) and are now bench warmers at Ajax. Bazoer's confidence is totally shot and you could see it in the game against Turkey where he had some shots on goal but couldn't convert. Same with el Ghazi. Maybe all four of these players are just average and will end up moving on to some mid table team some place, I don't know. Feyenoord has the same problems in keeping their players as well. They move on and some succeed and some don't.
Riedewald should be playing with Strootman and Sneijder ahead of him. It was always going to be difficult to create offensively without Robben and Sneijder and then losing Promes 15 minutes into the game. Missing Sneijder from midfield though I think is the bigger problem given nobody else from midfield can really create or link the defence to the attack. Still, I think a draw would have been more fair. Stekelenburg really should have saved that shot, and IMO it was a clear penalty against Koscielny. Janssen, van Dijk and Karsdorp all looked very good to me. Games like this really highlight how stupid the handling of Ziyech was. Having him in midfield for this game would have made a world of difference. Alas, it's starting to look like we're going to have to wait for the Nouri/Bergwijn generation to become a true threat again, unless someone else steps up in a big way.