I replaced Romário with Fernando Redondo in the top 23 of 1997 list and added the Spanish centre-back Roberto Ríos to the honorable mentions. That podium would finally be: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Roberto Carlos and 3. Zinedine Zidane. This is my final revision of the 1998 list: Top 23 BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Bologna) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina) BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands & Arsenal) BIERHOFF, Oliver (Germany & Udinese) BLANC, Laurent (France & Olympique de Marseille) DAVIDS, Edgar (Netherlands & Juventus) DEL PIERO, Alessandro (Italy & Juventus) DESAILLY, Marcel (France & AC Milan) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona) HIERRO, Fernando (Spain & Real Madrid) NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Lazio) NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & Lazio) OWEN, Michael (England & Liverpool) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid) RONALDO (Brazil & Inter Milan) RUI COSTA (Portugal & Fiorentina) SALAS, Marcelo (Chile & River Plate) SUKER, Davor (Croatia & Real Madrid) THURAM, Lilian (France & Parma) VIERI, Christian (Italy & Atlético de Madrid) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus) Podium: 1. Ronaldo, 2. Zinedine Zidane and 3. Dennis Bergkamp Contenders: 4. Rivaldo and 5. Alessandro Del Piero Honorable Mentions ADAMS, Tony (England & Arsenal) ARCE, Francisco (Paraguay & Palmeiras) ARVELADZE, Shota (Georgia & Ajax) BALAKOV, Krasimir (Bulgaria & Stuttgart) BARTHEZ, Fabien (France & AS Monaco) BECKHAM, David (England & Manchester United) BERGOMI, Giuseppe (Italy & Inter Milan) BOBAN, Zvonimir (Croatia & AC Milan) BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Parma) CAFU (Brazil & AS Roma) CAMPBELL, Sol (England & Tottenham Hotspur) CAMPO, Iván (Spain & Mallorca) CANNAVARO, Fabio (Italy & Parma) CHILAVERT, José Luis (Paraguay & Vélez Sarsfield) COLE, Andy (England & Manchester United) DE BOER, Frank (Netherlands & Ajax) DE BOER, Ronald (Netherlands & Ajax) DESCHAMPS, Didier (France & Juventus) DI BIAGIO, Luigi (Italy & AS Roma) DUNGA (Brazil & Júbilo Iwata) EDÍLSON (Brazil & Corinthians) ETXEBERRIA, Joseba (Spain & Athletic Bilbao) GALLARDO, Marcelo (Argentina & River Plate) GAMARRA, Carlos (Paraguay & Corinthians) GIGGS, Ryan (Wales & Manchester United) GUERRERO, Julen (Spain & Athletic Bilbao) GUIVARC'H, Stéphane (France & Auxerre) HENRY, Thierry (France & AS Monaco) INZAGHI, Filippo (Italy & Juventus) JARDEL, Mário (Brazil & Porto) JUGOVIC, Vladimir (Yugoslavia & Lazio) KAHN, Oliver (Germany & Bayern Munich) KIRSTEN, Ulf (Germany & Bayer Leverkusen) KONSEL, Michael (Austria & AS Roma) LAUDRUP, Brian (Denmark & Rangers) LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark & Ajax) LITMANEN, Jari (Fin (England & Ajax) LIZARAZU, Bixente (France & Bayern Munich) LUIS ENRIQUE (Spain & Barcelona) MACHLAS, Nikos (Greece & Vitesse) MARCELINHO CARIOCA (Brazil & Corinthians) MARSCHALL, Olaf (Germany & Kaiserslautern) MAZINHO (Brazil & Celta de Vigo) NEVILLE, Gary (England & Manchester United) ORTEGA, Ariel (Argentina & Valencia) OVERMARS, Marc (Netherlands & Arsenal) PAGLIUCA, Gianluca (Italy & Inter Milan) PERUZZI, Angelo (Italy & Juventus) PETIT, Emmanuel (France & Arsenal) PIRES, Robert (France & Metz) PROSINECKI, Roberta (Croatia & Dinamo Zagreb) REBROV, Serhiy (Ukraine & Dynamo Kyiv) SCHMEICHEL, Peter (Denmark & Manchester United) SCHOLL, Mehmet (Germany & Bayern Munich) SEEDORF, Clarence (Netherlands & Real Madrid) SFORZA, Ciriaco (Switzerland & Kaiserslautern) SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & Dynamo Kyiv) SIMEONE, Diego (Argentina & Inter Milan) STAM, Jaap (Netherlands & PSV Eindhoven) SUTTON, Chris (England & Blackburn Rovers) THON, Olaf (Germany & Schalke 04) TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma) VAN DER SAR, Edwin (Netherlands & Ajax) VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Sampdoria) VIEIRA, Patrick (France & Arsenal) WINTER, Aron (Netherlands & Inter Milan) WÖRNS, Christian (Germany & Bayer Leverkusen) ZANETTI, Javier (Argentina & Inter Milan) ZIANI, Stéphane (France & Lens) All Tops 23 Honorable Mentions (1920-1984) Honorable Mentions (1985- )
The difference between Zidane and Bergkamp in 98 is surely negligible (all things considered) Bergkamp was the dominant performer of EPL Zidane was good in 97/98 serie A but extremely inconsistent (as he always was-without exception) 1 good/great game followed by 5-7 anonymous ones https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/zinedine-zidane-review-1996-2006.2006080/ Is Zidane vs Brazil great enough to overhaul the fact Bergkamp was arguably more impressive at league level Was arguably just as impressive in the 98 WC up to the SF round ( Zidane was actually bailed by thuram whilst bergkamp had no such 'luck') it is fair to say without his performance vs Brazil Zidane easily falls out the top 5 and is replaced on the podium by Alessandro del Piero (the best performer of the champions league and one of the 2 best players in serie A) Zidane was widely considered to be unimpressive in the first half (or at least opening months)of 96/97 but still makes the podium Was he great enough in the 2nd half or was it just a case of deja vu 1 great performance(for ex vs ajax)followed by 3-5 anonymous ones There is no superstar of the last 20 odd years who gets away with this His 'elegant' roulettes in uncrowded areas have literally bewitched otherwise rational minded people
Typical @Perú FC In the real awards 'Holland' had five to seven among the 23, but Peru FC downgrades it to two. A true enemy. Meanwhile, what was so special about Redondo? He finished fourth in the league, was in the Champions League out-graded and out-produced by midfield team mates (including the final, see Gazzetta ratings), and didn't play for his national team.
Respecto a la anterior lista de menciones honoríficas, faltan Alfonso, Mijatovic y Raúl. ¿Puedes confirmarme si ahora no están porque no llegaron al nivel suficiente o si solamente es un error de transcripción? Gracias.
While I agree that the difference between Zidane and Bergkamp may be imperceptible, I think I usually have a conflict regarding the analysis of Zidane. While I agree that in popular opinion it is usually overrated by those who lived their childhood/adolescence in the late 1990's and it is possible to point out a certain inconsistency at the highest comparative level, I think in certain circles a little more critical (as here) some have become too exaggerated about that inconsistency and I perceive that some ratings probably don't favor him based on his final production with a low esteem about actions that did not trigger a final assistance or a goal (I once discussed it about him and Iniesta, but in Italy the usual rating seem to be somewhat different).
It's not that I want to delve much into your usual Dutch/anti-Dutch crusade, but the only "real award" I think you can refer to is the Ballon d'Or, which does not refer to the same period of time, has 4 Dutch representatives in its top 22 (Davids, Bergkamp, Frank and Ronald de Boer) and 2 sharing with Brian Laudrup in 23rd place (Seedorf and Overmars) (different scenario than the one you slide) and has a strange mix of criteria due to being a World Cup year, at least for me.
Los excluí adrede. Alfonso ganó el Premio Don Balón al Mejor Futbolista Español de La Liga, pero aunque he intentado buscar la razón, incluso con algunos contactos españoles que recuerdan bien esa época, no he encontrado el motivo ni he entendido el criterio por el cual fue galardonado de esa forma. Contraria a su anterior temporada (la 1996-97 en la que creo que podría haber integrado el top 23), la 1997-98 me parece que no tuvo nada muy destacable para él ni en términos de rendimiento ni en producción, Real Betis decayó con respecto a sus resultados un año antes y uno de los pocos episodios positivos que he podido rescatarle es la victoria ante Barcelona en el Camp Nou, anotando un gol, pero sin ser tan decisivo. En la Recopa de Europa anotó 4 goles, pero 3 ante un débil BVSC Budapest y 1 en el descuento ante Chelsea antes de ser eliminado en los cuartos de final. A nivel internacional con España tampoco me parece que tuviera episodios muy relevantes durante el año (de por sí en la Copa Mundial solo pudo actuar en el último partido de la fase de grupos que selló la eliminación española). No tengo una explicación personal para el galardón que recibió, pero no he encontrado la justificación. Me parece que solo en La Liga estuvo muy claramente debajo de Luis Enrique para tal consideración y un delantero que sí me provocó muchas dudas (sobre su inclusión como una mención honrosa) fue Darko Kovacevic. Predrag Mijatovic me parece que tuvo claramente una temporada bastante irregular con Real Madrid (tanto o más que Davor Suker, pero sin un gran impulso sobre sus performances en la Copa Mundial). Fue nominado 2 veces en el Equipo Ideal del Mes de la ESM, pero debido solo a cierto hype en noviembre de 1997 y a ser considerado así en el último mes de la temporada por ser el autor del histórico gol en la final que coronó campeón a los madridistas tras 32 años. Creo que en esa temporada/año aparece en muchas consideraciones básicamente por ese episodio y gol heroico antes que por un muy destacado nivel puntual. Raúl, al igual que Mijatovic, creo que también tuvo una temporada irregular. En ese período incluso llegó a ser muy criticado y se le relacionó con algunos actos o hechos de indisciplina por los que poco después tuvo que responder en alguna rueda de prensa y se refirió a sus bajas performances. Lo que sí, me parece que logró levantar su nivel en la recta final de la temporada y tuvo buenas actuaciones en la UEFA Champions League, pero no creo que fuera una tan buena recuperación como para haberlo incluido, al menos no obligatoriamente (tal vez en el margen del número de las menciones honrosas). Su producción goleadora final creo que también hizo notar este período de decaimiento al llegar solo a 13 goles en todas las competencias cuando llevaba 2 temporadas consecutivas superando el margen de los 20.
This may not bode well, but in my view Redondo was one of the biggest propagandas of his time by the Argentinian and Spanish press. Never did he impress much at the NT level either, with notorious debacles in WC94 and in the qualifiers.
Tend to agree re Zidane 97/87 in Serie A, I think his 96/97 was a fair bit stronger, but 97/98 ended in WC triumph that is a massive jump. As for Bergkamp, pretty average 96/97 by his standards, but 97/98, he was ridiculous, personally I think as good a season as anyone in PL history, never so many times in one season have I watched a player do so many things that I was left open mouthed. One month on Match of the Day's Goal of the month competition, he came 1st, 2nd and 3rd, that is pretty special. Back to 96/97 season, he did score that amazing goal versus Sunderland, I forgot how good this was until I watched again recently:
It's also the FIFA world player of the year vote. Not only the Ballon d'Or were 'we' had more (= over double amount) than your two among the best 23. In the 1997-98 ESM voting season 'we' had the 2nd most voted goalkeeper (behind Peruzzi), the 3rd and 6th most voted center back, the most voted defensive midfielder (or: ball winner), the most voted central midfielder (ahead of Redondo yes), the 3rd most voted forward (ahead of Rivaldo, Raul), the 2nd most voted winger. The voter pool remained constant throughout the months. Frank de Boer was the 6th voted center back in the regular season, which is quite good without a deep run in Europe or no Champions League games. ESM has its weaknesses and blind spots, but this is without the World Cup. Factor in the World Cup and you get a pattern (albeit on the inflated end) like the World Player and BdO vote, with a number of them among the best 23. What you do is (again) the double handicap. The handicap and understandable time lag at the time itself, and a handicap years later. As remarked before, also Modric faced a time lag, with only 4 ESM team of the month selections in his career as a result (way behind many other central midfielders - his partner Kroos has more). I understand that, but then there are some more on your list with an inauspicious club season. Desailly for example, although I believe he was (with Weah) the least bad Milan player of the 1997-98 season. As for Zidane, although his 1997-98 Guerin D'Oro ranking is underwhelming (ranked #54), I think this is one of his better seasons together with 2002-03 and possibly 2000-01. *Certainly* a lot better as the season before and the next season. Unlike other tournament heroes (Rossi, MvB), he didn't have a strong start of the next season. Zidane for #1 in 1998 is maybe more sensible as him in 2000 (though he played an even better tournament there). I recently saw this The Guardian opinion piece on the 2000 year: Overrated The world footballer of the year award Zinedine Zidane's coronation as world player of the year was a bit like a film getting an Oscar for a couple of good scenes (or, in the case of Titanic, one good scene). Zidane is not overrated, but the award certainly is. What Zidane was (as Luis Figo observed) was world player of June - his brilliance leading France to triumph in Euro 2000. But that apart the Frenchman played reasonably but not brilliantly for a Juventus side pipped by Lazio for the Italian title and humiliated in successive European competitions - the latter of which saw him sent off twice. Figo was a worthier winner, so was David Beckham, who Zidane himself thought should have finished higher than sixth. So how did Zidane win? Well the Fifa award is based on the votes of 150 national coaches, who nominate their top three but are not allowed to vote for compatriots. It seems a fair systemuntil you look at the list. Then you can't helping detecting a regional, if not national, bias. How else can you explain Kanu's joint 21st placing (ahead of Roy Keane and every Englishmen except Beckham) after a year in which his form stagnated at Arsenal? Not that Kanu's is the most ludicrous placing. That honour goes to Paolo Wanchope, also joint 21st, thanks to the first-place vote of the Costa Rican coach, whose rule-breaking Fifa chose to ignore. Thus was an already questionable poll reduced to farce.
Guardian comments sum up the old FIFA voting system perfectly... the FIFA awarded has now gone the other way, before you could vote for anyone so had all the biased awards of coaches and players colleagues; Wanchope a perfect example, to a restrictive 10 by a so called expert panel. Why not pick 30, if some get no votes then so be it, but at least ones who deserve eligibility will be there, no Man City players in the FIFA 10 list of players is a pretty poor, when say Kane is in in my view undeservedly.
Actually, I think that is reflected in Tom's lists. He didn't include him in any of them, something that caused me surprise at the time, especially because it's the common idea to relate him very well with the last successful stage of Argentina between 1992 and 1994 (I'm not sure if you mean the national team or a personal debacle, but in the 1994 World Cup it seems to me that he played well that group stage). I've been able to see him with Tenerife and although I really like his style of play at that time with the called "EuroTenerife" I understand how he might not be considered a very top player. I think this must have changed a bit during his time at Real Madrid, but with delay, only from his third season with the arrival of Fabio Capello. The 1996-97 season seems to me that he's on the verge of being able to make him enter the top 23, I've done it, but I've serious doubts about Figo and I guess I'm more convinced by Portuguese in these last hours for an alternate discussion. What do you think only about his 1997-98 season? In my perception, at least, he completes a good local season, individually not very different from the previous one despite an irregular Real Madrid campaign, but with the extra boost of very good performances (from my point of view) in the UEFA Champions League, including some that impressed me, as in the 2 semifinal matches against Borussia Dortmund: ln general terms, with his possible exclusion from the 1997 list it's likely that what you perceive in general terms is reflected with only 2 inclusions in these lists (1998 and 2000) despite their usual fame as 1990's star player.
Here my take on this page and the next: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/subjective-overrated-players.2025835/page-32#post-37996207 He is a great player of his time, just a bit over-inflated. For this season he was in the Champions League out-produced and out-graded by his team mates in midfield. Weak point is Redondo couldn't anchor a midfield by himself (not to mention him as DM takes the spectacular style away) and he very, very rarely scored a goal or made an assist. Even Busquets does it more often. It doesn't surprise me he was a better tournament player than league player, where he surprisingly often finished below the top three.
He never made it into even El Gráfico’s second ideal squad of CA1993, was pedestrian during the WC qualifiers, only really good vs Paraguay on the road, and established a good start to WC94 as long as Maradona was on the field. Once Maradona was expelled Redondo was completely lost in midfield and surely showed his colors as a liability. He was a good player but very much hyped by the press of his time. Edit: can’t comment on his 1997-98 season but I speak mostly about his time at the NT and for Tenerife where I have a better recollection of him. Also in Argentinian football.
Also here applies: Redondo was clearly outgraded by his midfield team-mates, in both matches. Madrid: Illgner (3) - Panucci (3,5), Sanz (4), Sanchis (3,5), Roberto Carlos (3) - Redondo (3) - Karembeu (1,5), Seedorf (2), Raul (4) - Mijatovic (3), Morientes (2) Dortmund: Klos (3)- Binz (3)- Cesar (3,5), Kree (3) - Reuter (3), Freund (3), But (3,5), Reinhardt (5) - Ricken (3,5) - Herrlich (2,5), Chapuisat (4) Eingewechselt: 52. Suker (4) für Mijatovic, 89. Jaime (-) für Morientes - 48. Decheiver (4) für Herrlich, 82. Zorc (-) für Ricken https://www.kicker.de/501485/spielbericht Dortmund: Klos (3) - Binz (2,5) - Reuter (3), Kree (-) - Ricken (3,5), Feiersinger (2), But (4), Heinrich (4) - Möller (4) - Tanko (4), Chapuisat (3,5) Madrid: Illgner (3) - Panucci (3), Hierro (2), Sanz (3), Roberto Carlos (3) - Redondo (3,5) - Karembeu (4), Seedorf (3), Amavisca (4) - Raùl (3), Morientes (4) Eingewechselt: 12. Zorc (3) für Kree, 71. Decheiver (-) für Tanko, 76. Timm (-) für Ricken - 74. Jaime (-) für Raúl, 88. Guti (-) für Seedorf, 90. Victor (-) für Morientes https://www.kicker.de/501487/spielbericht This is also an interesting watch: Chelsea vs Real Madrid for the Super Cup The double handicap reigns supreme..
The rumors are true! After discovering football-info.eu has a database with links to newspaper reports of most international games, I decided it's time to extend my methodology to include every era from WW-I on. I'll be going through every match report I can from that site. While doing it, I thought it might be useful to make suggestions to Tom's Ballon lists based on what I read. I'll mostly be concentrating on the European game, since those are the only reports I currently have, and because I'm using a different seasonal method for South America anyway. A general criticism of Tom's lists is that they are pretty league-focused, and especially champion-focused. That's a very modern viewpoint, from a time when the big clubs hog every half-decent player into their roster. Before transfers became rampant, the best player in the leagues were a lot more evenly spread, and the season's best player wasn't necessarily the one who collected the silverware. Another modern viewpoint is the idea of major leagues and smaller leagues, which I'd argue doesn't exist in this era anywhere to the degree it exists nowadays. This thinking has led to an underrepresentation of players from weaker teams, IMO. Hopefully my suggestions will balance things out. The Brits still dominate this era, probably to the degree they would take up most spots in a Ballon-23. That wouldn't make for a very exciting list, though, so I've taken the viewpoint England and Scotland are "just" the top teams around during this era. Season 19-20: -Stuhlfauth had one NT-game this season, where he let in four against ever-mediocre Switzerland. I don't think he has any kind of continental reputation at this point. -Harry Denis is already highly ranked at this time. Even when the Dutch are playing badly and letting in several goals, it's generally the fault of Denis' full-back partner or more often the inadequate halfback line. Even the reports that focus almost exclusively on the home side make note of how "the Dutch right-back was pretty good" etc. Other good defensive votes would be Austria's Popovic and Hungary's Fogl. -Norway had good results around this time. The win against England in the Olympics was considered a huge sensation. Their best player in probably every game was Asbjorn Halvorsen. When he's not playing, the reports are lamenting his omission. OK, most of the games were against other Scandinavian countries, but it still sounded pretty impressive to me. -Sweden's best player generally was Herbert Carlsson. He was also the top scorer in the Olympics. OK, they were against Greece, but maybe he makes it into honorable mentions? -Andy Wilson seems to have been the best Scottish player. I would pick him over Jimmy Gordon. My team of the season: Zamora Denis Pennington Pesek Orth Halvorsen Libonatti Kelly Piendibene Scarone Romano Yes, there are three centre-halves and no wingers, but I didn't want to be enslaved by positions. There aren't many exceptional wingers or halfbacks around in this era. I'll use them when I can, but it's more important to get the deserving names in. My top 3: 1. Scarone 2. Orth 3. Kelly I'm no expert on the South American game, but Scarone was scoring a hatful of goals for Uruguay this season. For the most part they also had Argentina's number. Except when Scarone wasn't playing, when they crashed 6-1. Coincidence? TS and Sioux seem to prefer Romano in this era, so I don't know? Orth is another of those players that are lamented on reports when he's not playing, and the team is playing worse. Kelly is here because of the exceptional game against Scotland. Hindsight allows me to pick him over Morris.
Glad you are going back through these, there is plenty than can be improved. In this case I find it hard to imagine Scarone #1 when he was not selected for the South American Championship.
1920-1921 Top 3: 1. Morton 2. Romano 3. Kelly This is Morton's year to me. He was the best Scottish player in both the England drubbing and the League XI match. In this era the Scots considers the Wales and especially Ireland matches as little more than extra trial games for the big one. Rangers players were busy with a cup game during the Ireland match, so that explains their omission. Even then, Morton's claims for a place in the England game are said to be overwhelming. I should clarify I'm using a different seasonal system than Tom's list. The deadline for me is the end of each August. An exception was made for last season so as not to split the Olympic tournament in half. The Copa 1920 hits this period for me. Hence Romano. Orth had a disappointing match against Austria, which ends up knocking him off my podium. Scotland's other best players during this time were Cunningham, Marshall and Wilson, so I'd pick the last two over Ferguson and McMullan. McMullan isn't anything special yet at this time. Zabaleta has no international pedigree, so I'd definitely drop him. Austria had a good international season, so I would include Swatosch. TotS: Ferenc Plattko Karoly Vogl Xandl Popovic Vilmos Kertesz Karol Pesek Arthur Grimsdell Angel Romano Bob Kelly Richard Kuthan György Orth Alan Morton No outstanding keeper in the international scene. Sigge Lindberg was a sensation in the Austria game, but he's not picked after that. Plattko was great against Germany, so I pick him, with De Bie as my back-up. Stuhlfauth is a calamity at this point, from what I can tell, dropping crosses and letting in easy ones. Popovic and Vogl (again) were the pick of the bunch of the defenders. Good performances in every game. This is a weak era for halfbacks. They are considered the weakness for most teams, and no one sticks out. Kertesz is described as a bit rough and reckless, but gets my vote by default Other notes of interest: - Konrad and Orth are swapping positions in the middle of the match. There's your total football. Teams switch the forward-line around when they're chasing a game. Sort of a 20s version of substitutions. - France are smashed by England amateurs 0-5. Earlier England had been beaten by Belgium, but that was believed to be a below-strength team. One journo thinks England hasn't been taking their continental matches seriously. This result is what happens when they do. -Norway's win over Great Britain is called the biggest upset in football history, and the greatest achievement in Norwegian sporting history. -Sweden's to date best goalkeeper Robert Zander is playing in the Sophus Hansen style as both goalkeeper and third back. -De Natris was dropped from the Dutch team over Bolshevik-like behavior. Denis has been dropped as some sort of revenge. -Fritz Tarp is one of Denmark's very best players. He's not much of a shooter, though, so what is he doing in centre-forward?
On what basis exactly is Orth #2? Where is that based on? Was it the best national team, best club or league in the world, was he doing great internationally? And oh, 'Total Football' is a lot more than just swapping positions (like rochades in chess) among the forward line... But comments like this are to be expected. You still didn't respond to the point Hungary has only one EC winning player since 1955 (and in all the other competitions, only Ferencvaros in 1965 for the Fairs Cup).
All my lists are primarily based on reports from international matches. Hungary were the most impressive side on the continent this season and Orth was their key player (along with Schlosser). Like I said, he has that big player aura where he's being mentioned even when it's not particularly relevant. Why do you ask about him in particular? If I didn't know better, I'd think you were looking to get into another Holland-Hungary pissing contest. I responded to you as much as needed to be responded. What is there to say? Hungary stopped producing good players long before their borders opened for transfers, so there's no reason why they would have any EC winning players. As for the 50s and 60s, the failure of the national side seemed to be their inability to deal with more physical sides, so maybe that was their main weakness at club level, too?
Which reports from which countries? Generally speaking, in 1920 the British leagues were still (by far) the best and most professional in the world. If Hungary was indeed the best side on the continent (with the best results?) then that makes sense. This are the results from around that time: 30/04/1922 Austria Hungary 1-1 Fr 18/12/1921 Poland Hungary 1-0 Fr 06/11/1921 Sweden Hungary 4-2 Fr 05/06/1921 Germany Hungary 3-0 Fr 24/04/1921 Austria Austria 1-4 Fr 07/11/1920 Austria Hungary 1-2 Fr 24/10/1920 Germany Germany 0-1 Fr 02/05/1920 Austria Austria 2-2 Fr 09/11/1919 Austria Hungary 3-2 Fr 05/10/1919 Austria Austria 0-2 Fr How good were they and the players really? It's time for a pissing contest indeed, since you are again feeding into the theory that they executed 'total football', thereby waiving the entry card to the hipster camp. But again, if the impression is they played the best (and had the results) then that is fine. Which marks out your arrogance. You actually didn't say this, nor did you give this response. Then I'd say: if (almost) all good players stayed in their own country (with all the bolstering and knock-on effects this generates), you'd expect better results in the Cup Winners Cup, Fairs Cup and European Cup if they are so good. At least, you'd expect more than a handful/dozen players with medals since 1955. A pretty big bottleneck then, but of course there is not a direct relationship between player quality and results attained (esp. if there is an explanation for it). How much have the friendly press from allies and befriended nations fed into these perceptions?
The reports are generally from papers from the countries participating in the match in question. Sometimes I'll find reports from neutral countries, but those are usually too concise to be of much help. The important thing is to get a report from both sides and preferably more than one, because sometimes the views differ wildly. I put in a disclaimer in the first post there's a very real chance every nominee in a Ballon D'or voting around this time would be a British player. Professionalism is the key, yes. A lot of continentals seem to hold it a given they don't have a shot against professionals. Even a win against an amateur England is considered a miracle. And how many sides could England have put out that would top their amateur side? But it's not much fun putting out a list of only British players. In this period, I think of this list more as a reward for outstanding individual performances rather than an indication of absolute class. That was just a joke, dude. No need to get your clogs all clogged up. If it helps, if anything that line dispels the theory that the Hungarians invented total football. In the 20s everyone was doing the position-swapping. As I understand it, the withdrawn centre-forward was the go-to thing before WM. The friendlies and allies of Hungary? An Eastern European Stalinist nation?
1921-1922: TotS: Zamora K. Fogl De Vecchi Kolenaty Kalb Pesek Libonatti Wilson Orth Alcantara Morton Top 3: Alcantara Orth Morton Alcantara seems like a pretty easy winner to me. There weren't a lot of players who were consistently great at international level. Orth was struggling with injuries, and Hungary struggled for results when he's not there. The go-to line is "If Orth had been playing they would've won". The British international scene was mediocre. Morton didn't have the presence of last season, but was still "in a class by himself". Czechoslovakia and Hungary were duking it out for the honor of most respected NT on the continent, taking over from Austria. Italy has a good season for the first time, challenging the big teams. Their defence is considered superior to their more prestigious opponents. De Vecchi is their top defender, though Caligaris is also starting to get respect. Baloncieri is good, but Cevenini is their top player. Fogl is consistently good. Kalb emerges as (according to some) the best centre-half on the continent. Pesek has a quiet international season, but makes my team based on his "phenomenal" reputation. Other nominees: Sigge Lindberg now establishes himself as Sweden's regular goalie, continuing his impressive performances. Old-timer Adolf Fischera returns to the scene as Austria's best player. I would definitely take out Beer. He's not seen as anything special. Samitier also didn't stand out yet. Alcantara and Zamora took all the plaudits. The Brits are more difficult to figure out, because despite having a mediocre season, they probably do make up the vast majority of top players during this era. Still, for my list I took out the ones that didn't have an international presence. Jack Marshall was once again good in every appearance. Other notes: -Denmark lose a home match for the first time in their history, going down to Czechoslovakia. There's more position-switching in the middle of the game. Swapping Left-half Fritz Tarp with right-back Valdemar Laursen seems an inspired one, since that's the positions they'll be playing in for the rest of their careers. -The Czechs return to Scandinavia, this time defeating Sweden. The Swedes use a controversial one-back system, which leads to numerous offside calls going against the Czechs. They're playing a McCracken-style offside trap? -The hyper-partisan Spanish press is the most interesting I've run into so far. The reports in the regular newspapers are full of jingoistic claptrap a la "Our 11 heroes truly showed la furia roja in tonight's match! Viva Espana!" The actual sports papers already have the Marca/El Mundo bias perfected. A good example of this is the case of Real Madrid player Monjardin. Spain already have their traditional powder puff attack, and the regional papers put all the blame on Monjardin. Even when he's scoring, they're sassing the hell out of him to the tune of "this guy can't play at all. Only head balls. Get him off the team!" The only ones defending him are, surprise surprise, Madrid papers. "Stop harassing our dear Monjardin! Oh, and bring in more Madrid players like Bernabeu to get the best out of Monjardin!". It makes figuring out Spain matches a bit tougher, but it's pretty entertaining.
When reading some spanish reports at early 1920s, they mentioned the "one back system" in some matches, it seems the McCracken's tactic to catch offside opposing forwards, had been extending worldwide.