Historic World Wide Balon d'Or 23 player short lists

Cool! Kicker didn't serve 'Reading Room' before 1963(both Kicker and Sportmagazin), so I couldn't search it.

 

How about these players as HM? Harald Shumacher, Hans-Peter Briegel, Soren Lerby, Rui Jordao, Santillana.

 

I would include Amoros, Lerby and Borghi.

 

I do think Dalglish's case is mainly based on his domestic form (and I'd think probably in 1982 more than 1983) but his two goals in Belgium for Scotland (one of them awarded Goal of the Season) were right at the end of the 1982 so I don't know if they are irrelevant the way you are looking at things or not (in reality voters might well think of them I guess but I know you were looking mainly at calendar years regarding International games). It's one of those cases where he arguably did enough to be the match winner against the eventual qualifiers, but wasn't because Belgium scored more goals against the Scottish defence. The interesting thing (although surely less or not at all relevant here even) is that I think I'm right in saying that after the World Cup he was getting left out of the Scotland team (while in great form for Liverpool at the start of the season) and that was his comeback game - Denis Law talks about his positive reaction to being left out in the tribute film "Kenny" that was on Youtube and maybe can still be seen there. But in the 1983 calendar year, I think he maybe just got one assist and one pre-assist, as far as Scotland goes.

In addition to whatever can be seen on Youtube (as well as some goals, I think you should be able to see or already saw some great assists vs Forest, Watford, Tottenham for example - all teams that ended the season near the top of the table). But written accounts like this one for the game vs Manchester City can help where there isn't available footage I think (although I know you already are thinking very highly of his domestic season - to me it was ahead of Platini's I'd think for much of the season but maybe that changed towards the end):
http://www.citytilidie.com/latest/liverpool-away-198283/
"On this day, the rampant Reds were a class apart, Kenny Dalglish especially. He served warning in the opening exchanges of what was to come, driving in a powerful shot that was parried away by Joe Corrigan.
…After 16 minutes Dalglish found his target. David Hodgson and Ronnie Whelan set him up; from just outside the area he swerved the ball with the outside of his right boot high into the corner of the net. A wonderful goal"
"Dalglish was rampant and Dennis Tueart was forced to bring him down just outside the area, merely delaying the inevitable, The Scot got·up and beat Corrigan with a powerful low shot from the resulting free kick"
"Dalglish was responsible for the Reds restoring their three-goal lead in the second half, winning the ball in midfield and setting Rush free on goal. He wes never going to miss and 4-1 it was.
Dalglish completed his hat-trick three minutes from time with a low right-foot shot from close range. ln the closing seconds a Peter Bodak volley pulled one back for the visitors. "

 

Just for clarification the great goal on the Dalglish goals video vs a team in light blue is not the goal described in that link (the description would have been a bit off, including the fact it was a left footed goal on the video ofc....on top of being curled rather than swerved I'd say and the pre-assisters being different) I'm pretty sure but a goal vs Stoke in the FA Cup I think.

Stoke can be seen playing at Anfield in the league game here with the same kit:

(Another game where he has goals plus assists/goal involvement).

It's hard to be sure due to my age (and the somewhat incomplete footage shown even at the time perhaps anyway) but I tend to assume it was his best season and perhaps a season comparable to the best by a player in England even. Quite a lot of goals, including some brilliant ones. And quite a lot of assists I think including some brilliant ones. Plus the general influence on the team dynamic and cohesiveness of the play that he was known for, dropping into midfield and making the play.

Not to say I 100% think he should be ruled into the top 3 Tom (and it's your choice anyway) but felt it could be helpful to show reasons I wouldn't be quick to rule him out of it.

 

How was Falcao's first season at Roma seen, compared to the next 2-3 where he was one of the top players?

 

Surprised not to see Maradona there for 82-83 season, 23 goals in 35 games, won the Copa del Rey and the Copa de la Liga, then the Supercopa de España at the start of the following season. At the end of the season there was also the game where Maradona was applauded by the Real Madrid fans. Injury took him out the start of the 83-84 season.

 

They applauded his goal, not the performance perse.

http://www.fcbarcelona.com/football...-since-maradona-stunned-the-santiago-bernabeu

He played too few games to be included by Don Balon and Mundo Deportivo. Otherwise he would have been top 15 (top 20 maybe, at worst) and 4th respectively. In terms of grades. It is the best season of the two, sure.

 

Just to expand on the bolded part with an after-thought (I'm also influenced by thinking about what as been posted on the Suarez thread I think) - on the face of it this Dalglish season seems pretty comparable to Bergkamp's in 97/98. Without trying to pre-empt Tom exactly I guess that could be another "is it in the top 3 or not?" season, though Bergkamp certainly had impressive plays, if not consistently great form throughout, in the World Cup at the end of that season (perhaps enough to enhance his case over a Del Piero or someone for example?).

 

Probably as I suggested Cruyff's 81/82 could be in the HM's at least (no problem if it's not put there on my part really though - his Feyenoord season made the main list for 83/84 I see) then I'd think the same for that sort of season by Maradona (although at the opposite end of his career). Or even NM (notable mention) is the most appropriate term in those cases due to the best form displayed and the players overall careers?

 

I think Cruyff in 1981-82 also played too few games, but he did (help to) turn around a 5 points deficit into a 5 points lead at the end of the season. The league had a good coefficient back then 1981-1983 (4th & 3rd). By the point of his return they were already out of the domestic cup and in Europe though (the impressive Celtic performances are of a season later, where Ajax lost when he was out for the final 5 minutes). He impressed when he played with Ajax against the Belgian NT shortly before the 1982WC.

Maradona was individually outstanding at times in 1982-83, as an individual force a remarkable attacking threat (as I've argued in the other thread re: manager Bianchi comments, often people make a type of player of him that he wasn't). Defenders compared him with stars of yesteryear. But Barcelona did not go through good league seasons or in Europe; and I'm not certain whether it was due to his injuries (as a massive reason). The season before him they ended 2nd, the season after 1st (a rare feat between the 1950s and 1980s); they even achieved similar league results without him playing (1.36ppg vs 1.34ppg).

It depends on where the bar is set. I think they played too few games probably to be considered or taken into account.

 

Yeah, that was in mind also when I thought NM might be an appropriate term (or sub-section of HM's). Maybe players could play that amount and if brilliant and consistent enough still make the main list, but that's Tom's call really and I don't suggest that Maradona and Cruyff would have done quite enough, although with a full season their cases would be much enhanced I'd have thought.

 

With regards to German players in 1984 Harald Schumacher should definitely get mentioned and Pierre Littbarski might leave the list altogether due to his poor 1983-84 form (got better though 84-85).

 

100% agreement in Schumacher too, he was also argaubley the best goalkeeper of Euro84 despite West Germany not making it of the groups.

 

Yep, I agree re Arconada, apart from the final

 

Bochini was excellent at the Libertadores despite Independiente losing the last match to Argentinos Jrs. I would add Gareca, Ortiz from America de Cali and Olguin from Argentinos Jrs. Jose Villafuerte was also a stand out performer in South America.

 

It won't be a popular opinion but I do think Maradona gets very easy rides to top three places in years where he doesn't achieve something major (a domestic title, or bigger things). Without pens he scored 9 goals in 30 league games, 2 goals in 6 Coppa Italia matches (Serie B/Serie C sides), and then 6 goals (1PK) in 10 national team matches in the year 1985. Goals against Paraguay (penalty), Chile, Venezuela and Mexico.
For the 1984-85 season as such it are 39 games he played in the season; some others played more in the league alone.

I don't think there's another legend who fits the profile of finishing eight in the league, eliminated against lower league sides in the cup and not performing/playing in continental club competitions. He's really an outlier vs others in that respect; also an outlier towards his own other versions in other years. The club did improve from scoring 28 goals in a season to 34 goals in a season (relevant for an explosive sprinter), although with a different roster and injuries record (injured star players).

At the least it is decent to note that the team performance profile is an outlier (by a distance) against all other post war years (players who were seen as the world's best, or among the world's best, as contenders).

 

Personally I like Elkjaer Larsen for the top 3, what he did for Verona often gets overlooked, to the Danes and people of Verona that season is very very famous. Also re Bryan Robson, I noticed he was in this season and not 23 in 1984, I think he has a stronger case in 1984, admittedly United did not win the FA Cup like 1985 but he had the great performance in the home win agaisnt Maradona's Barcelona, sadly he missed the semi finals versus Juventus with injury. He was also captain of England in the famous win over Brazil in the Maracana when John Barnes scored his wonder goal and later on that year scored 5 goals in 3 WCQ.