Health Care Reform Part IV: The Trumpening

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Knave, Dec 3, 2016.

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  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is Downfall level delusion.
     
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  2. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    The people who believe everything Trump says will believe that, no doubt.

    But for everyone else, it's ridiculous. Trump has constantly promised that he had a wonderful plan for health insurance, and said back in January that it was "formulated down to the final strokes." The fact that he can't get the House's massive Republican majority to even vote on that supposedly wonderful plan is somehow the Democrats' fault?

    Not only that - now that he's openly announced that he's going to just use the "collapse" of Obamacare to pressure the Democrats for policy concessions, it will be widely assumed that continued shortcomings of the post-ACA health system are linked to Trump's deliberate efforts to undermine it.
     
  3. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    My impression from what Ryan is saying is that this isn't a temporary retreat. It's this whole approach to repeal is kaput. If something is done on this front again in the future, it'll be a totally different approach. In other words, they'd start over.
     
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  4. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    "We're going to be living with Obamacare for the foreseeable future." -- Paul Ryan
     
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  5. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Build the wall, reinforce military, tax reform, blah blah blah.

    More stuff to cringe upon. Thanks Paul Ryan.



    What a ********ing disaster.
     
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  6. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    Every single Democratic politician needs to hammer home to the public that the Republicans had SEVEN years to come up with a plan and the plan they introduced had 17% support across the country, and if the Republicans had SEVEN years to get something done and couldn't keep their promise, how can the public be assured that they can get anything accomplished in a shorter amount of time?
     
  7. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Thats what Kellyanne said to Spicy last night...

    LONG LIVE OBAMACARE! maybe Trump can use it after he's impeached.
     
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  8. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    They're going to sabotage it until it collapses. They've already started that by not enforcing the mandate
     
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  9. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    He didn't just say that. Please tell me you're being sarcastic. Fake it if you must ...
     
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  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The flaw is, their tax breaks for the rich were tied to the repeal of the ACA. With that off the table, they can't cut taxes on the rich without raising them on everyone else, because any bill that raises the deficit can't get past a Senate filibuster. So this has a chance to be a cascading failure...they didn't pass ACA repeal, so they can't do tax reform.
     
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  11. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Ryan cites Risk pool as a way to keep costs down for elderly...which is the exact opposite of what would happen
     
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  12. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Paul Ryan is not a man of great self awareness. He said it.
     
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  13. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    They own it. It's their fault.
     
  14. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    He did. The context was negative in that he was saying we were going to live with a disaster for the foreseeable future.

    Basically, they're done until some sort of "collapse"
     
  15. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Exactly. People blame the party in power.
     
  16. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    This was a really bad hill for the Republicans to die on. If they attempt to let this die and people are threatened with losing health care, they will continue to lash out against the Republicans. They're only shooting themselves in the foot with any of this.
     
  17. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    It's interesting to think about how the Republicans' thorny political bind would largely disappear if they sincerely wanted to improve health care in the US.

    I mean, imagine if they simply switched their question to "how can we make the health care system more cost-efficient and produce better outcomes?" - as opposed to "how can we give rich people a huge tax cut, appear to justify the Obamacare hatred we've cultivated for years, and avoid negative political consequences from the humanitarian harm we cause in the process?"

    Just like that, much of their problem would go away. And yet, they can't make that switch.
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's comical, the extent to which they are now getting crushed in the avalanche from Bullshit Mountain. They actually believe their own facile marketing. Now that they have power, they can't survive contact with reality.

    I'm sincerely gobsmacked, not that they ********ed up, but that they ********ed up so comprehensively. It's like when the Polish cavalry charged the Panzers in the opening days of WW II.
     
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  19. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    If they said tommorow - "we want to make ACA better for everyone", there's not a Democrat who would say no to that process.

    Have a real legislative process and you'd get somewhere
     
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  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    It's a tweet so it doesn't go into details, but I think I would literally die laughing* if Trump did this, and he and the Dems worked out a compromise bill, and then Trump tried to get the GOPs on the Hill to give it enough votes to pass.

    *Unless "terminal laughing" is added as an essential benefit.
     
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  21. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like I wrote earlier, Paul Ryan could have a healthcare bill pass both the House and the Senate. His problem is that it would like have to be something that Democrats would support, which means that it would have to be incremental policy improvements to Obamacare, things like making the subsidies more generous and closing the hole between Medicaid and the tax subsidies in states that haven't taken the Medicaid expansion.

    He'd also quickly be in the same predicament as his predecessor.
     
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  22. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    They had been saying that, though, but their bill said something completely different, and the bullshit stench was so strong that they couldn't avoid the truth about how awful the bill was getting out.
     
  23. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I'm the Dems, I sit tight and wait for something to come from him. Don't make the first offer.
     
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  24. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC Still Lazy After All These Years

    FC Vaduz / Philadelphia Union
    Jan 7, 2010
    Andalusia, PA
    Club:
    FC Vaduz
    He's just posturing right now, so he's not associated with the stink Ryan is giving off. If he turned his back on the Republicans, there'd be hearings by Republicans about his connections with Russia in a hot minute.
     
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  25. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Trump tells Haberman that he's going to blame the Dems.

    Then he tells Costa that he's going to work with the Dems.

    What's this tell you? Trump is just out there bullshitting and seeing what sticks. There's no plan. Just flailing.
     
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