Health Care Reform Part IV: The Trumpening

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Knave, Dec 3, 2016.

Tags:
  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/john-roberts-biography-review/580453/

    There's a new biography out of John Roberts.

    "Biskupic reports in detail for the first time on the machinations of the Obamacare case, revealing that Roberts started out in a different place. She writes that he initially voted with the four other conservatives to strike down the ACA, on the grounds that it went beyond Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce. Likewise, he initially voted to uphold the ACA’s expansion of Medicaid. But Roberts, who kept the opinion for himself to write, soon developed second thoughts.

    Biskupic, who interviewed many of the justices for this book, including her subject, writes that Roberts said he felt “torn between his heart and his head.” He harbored strong views on the limitations of congressional power, but hesitated to interject the Court into the ongoing health-insurance crisis. After trying unsuccessfully to find a middle way with Kennedy, who was “unusually firm” and even “put off” by the courtship, Roberts turned to the Court’s two moderate liberals, Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan. The threesome negotiated a compromise decision that upheld the ACA’s individual mandate under Congress’s taxing power, while striking down the Medicaid expansion. Future scholars will endlessly probe this fascinating moment in judicial history, but Biskupic deserves credit for writing the first draft."

    I do not want to hear one more mother********ing word from some mother********ing conservative about judicial mother********ing restraint or original mother********ing intent or any other mother********ing pile of mother********ing bullshit.

    Ever.
     
    xtomx, dapip, Auriaprottu and 1 other person repped this.
  2. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Utah voters only had an option to punish those politicians, oh wait.
     
  3. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    #4453 CANPRO, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
    Medicare for all would be great for unemployed and poor people. But man, if it ever is approved, and/or the U.S adopts a full national single payer health system, great ready for long waits in the emergency room. I won't go to the ER (Canada) unless I got hit by a bus. I'm not waiting 8 hours (or worse). I admit I question if the guy next to me going crazy on meth in the waiting room handcuffed by the cops who probably hasn't paid any taxes in a long time should get priority over me (I recognize paying lots of taxes doesn't make you a better person, but I sure pay more towards healthcare as a result)

    Our country is having a heck of a time finding doctors, too. I don't remember the last time I saw a doctor (walk in clinic) that wasn't a recent immigrant from the Middle East. In the majority of places in Canada, finding a family doctor is pretty unrealistic. I'm 35 and I know I'll never have one, then again I dont understand the point of making an appointment with a family doctor 2 days from now if you're pretty sick right now. I'm fine with just going to walk in clinics (first come first serve)

    Additionally, enjoy getting much needed surgeries 1-2 years from now and suffering until then.

    I feel sorry for low income people, but it would be nice to be seen promptly at a hospital and taken care of.
     
  4. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Last time I went to the ER here, I was waiting 12 hours... not sure where short waits are the rule as it is...
     
    flowergirl, M, Dr. Wankler and 3 others repped this.
  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #4455 Yoshou, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    You’ve clearly never been to an ER in the US...
     
    song219, M, russ and 2 others repped this.
  6. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where I live in Virginia, ER waits are short and I have had a non-emergency MRI on the same day I was referred for it by my doctor.

    But then again -- all blackface and sexual assaults aside -- I live in a very well-run state.
     
  7. Where is it that you have to wait so long? Not in the Netherlands or Belgium for sure.
    I unfortunately had to use the ER of a hospital near me as I was so stupid to make a run for a tram to gain 8 minutes. I landed smack on my hands and bumped my mouth on the pavement, which lead to open wounds on my hands and a tooth cutting in my lip. As it was around 6:30 PM I had to go to the ER as the doctors practice was closed. In total going there, waiting for the doctor and going back home took me three hours in total.
    I donot get how in that superior USA system you have that long wait.
     
  8. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Simple. You don’t use it and just wing it.

    Snowflake.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @CANPRO that isn’t a problem inherent in single payer. Single payer increases the demand for medical services IN A GOOD WAY. You just need to increase the supply.
     
  10. CANPRO

    CANPRO Member+

    Dec 23, 2002
    Increasing the supply is expensive. Canadians are heavily taxed compared to Americans, and there isnt nearly enough money in the system to work efficiently. I've read from doctors and nurses that they think it would take double the current funding level to have the system work effectively.

    Governments are always trying to find effeciences etc but there's no fat left to trim. There currently aren't enough hospital beds, doctors or nurses.

    I can't even guess what that tax rate would be to run an effective system, 60% maybe?
     
  11. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    The US currently spends 17% of GDP for its shambles of a healthcare system that fails to cover millions. So double "current funding levels" = 34% of GDP. Maybe, just maybe, the problem is the the gross inefficiencies inherent in the US system?
     
  12. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    And the refined inefficiencies...

    The nominal cost of the MS drug I take is pretty staggering given the simplicity of what it actually does, and how accidental the discovery that it works for MS. They were originally designed and marketed for another purpose entirely, and their effectiveness for MS was discovered "off-label" in patients with both conditions; and now I am part of the similar discovery that they also work for yet another condition, which I also have.

    So the price was actually set for a market of one size, which has more than doubled as a second market came in, and is about to more than double again, as an even more common illness is added; yet the price has remained about the same, maybe inflated a little, even though all that research expense is presumably being amortized at three or four times the rate expected when the price scheduled for the US was set.
     
    yossarian, Dr. Wankler and dapip repped this.
  13. :ROFLMAO:
    Start with paying European prices for things like hip replacements (15,000 €€ here, 50,000 in the USA) etc.
     
  14. 2018 The Dutch costs for healthcare was 97.5 billion €€=13.3% of Dutch GNP.
    https://www.zorgwijzer.nl/zorgverzekering-2019/zorgkosten-nederland-bijna-100-miljard
    Overzicht
    [​IMG]
     
  15. In this system poor people get the same care as rich people.
     
    Dr. Wankler and M repped this.
  16. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    There you go... the horrors of "socialism".
     
    xtomx, Dr. Wankler and sitruc repped this.
  17. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    No wonder. The mistreatment of the Job Creators is completely un-American. What’s next? Paid maternity leave? Free university?
     
  18. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Black lives actually mattering?
     
    xtomx repped this.
  19. Actually we're going into payed paternity leave too. So Pappa can spend time with happy baby too.

    Edit: put in some effort dude, you're seriously lagging the facts.
     
  20. 1102349459747270656 is not a valid tweet id

    1102349469645860864 is not a valid tweet id
     
  21. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Why do you hate freedom so much?!!!!!




    BTW dude:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. What I donot have you cannot break:)
    BTW I forgot to end my post with this:
    Edit: put in some effort dude, you're seriously lagging the facts.;)
     
  23. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Your healthcare system could be top notch, but you really need to find a way to issue more sarcasm meters to your population. I'm sure some enterprising 'murican Job creators will be happy to get into a contract with your government to provide some. Or maybe we can start an investigation on the Netherlands harboring socialists. I'm sure we could find the right excuse reason to invade liberate you.
     
  24. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    It's funny how these "debates" play...




    Facts vs Talking Points...
     
    sitruc repped this.

Share This Page