I'm going to let you prove where Ronaldo improved noticeably each season. There's a clear uptick in February 2006. But there was no consistent improvement. It was minor and incremental to the eye.
I'm not going to dig up full game tapes so you can see the very obvious improvements Ronaldo made with his football IQ and decision making each season. You can do that on your own. I'm on my phone right now, so I'm not going to post stats, but Ronaldo made clear improvements each season before his breakout season.
Ronaldo went from 6 goals, to 9 goals to 12 goals, to 23 goals, ot 42..Thats just statistically. In the 04/05 season he scored 9 goals, but he stepped up huge the 2nd half of that season. Ruud was injured until late February, we lost Scholes due to the eye injury iirc. Ronaldo and Giggs ended up being our top performers for the 2nd half of that season. Here are some of the goals. The next season in 05/06 I think that was Keane's last season. Another tough season at the time. Ronaldo was basically the best player along with Saha and Rooney. Ruud started that year on fire iirc, he scored 21+ goals in all comps, before the end of January. But SAF dropped him for Saha, and then we really started to kick in gear. The 06 season was the exclamation point in Ronaldo's development. 23 goals and 20+ assist. Ronaldo's first 2 and a half seasons were a bit frustrating, but he showed progress every season. Yeah, people wanted Ronaldo gone, but it wasnt for footballing reasons. It was because the English fans of the club sided with Rooney. England had just got knocked out of the Euro's and the English fans always looking for a scapegoat, picked Ronaldo because of the wink, even though Rooney got sent off for intentionally stepping on another mans nuts.
Looking at how Rashford has done in his first 3 seasons, clearly shows that he's got the talent. But the issue is also having a manager like Mourinho, who as it's been stated numerous times, does not have the first clue on how coaching and developing burgeoning talent. Forget about being in the hands of Pep, I'm definitely curious as to how Rashford would have progressed had he played under SAF. Ronaldo has a work ethic that is almost 2nd to none, but being looked after by someone like SAF was huge for him: he said as much numerous times and we know also how SAF set goal tallies for him to meet, especially from Year 3 on. Not to mention he did play in better teams (even if our 04-06 teams were mediocre by our standards then), with a better style and philosophy than the recent United ones. Now I'm not saying that Rashford can ultimately match Ronaldo, one of the greatest footballers ever, but if there's anyone at the club we've had since who has similar traits, I think it's him. Rashford is still just a 21yr old kid who needs guidance and to be thought certain things (Ronaldo's football IQ was not always what it ultimately became). And as stated, getting plenty of games/minutes mainly because he's a good athlete who is willing to do whatever he is asked by the manager, does not equal proper development. Which is what Rashford is lacking atm: bring in just a halfway efficient and capable coach and there's little doubt he (like many others) will flourish, noticeably in my estimation. Rash has put up some decent numbers under Mourinho, but just like when Martial goes on his great runs, it can be argued it's pretty much in spite of him and that it's his talent just coming forth. It's still needs to be honed and nurtured at the end of the day. And there's no telling how good both players would be today under the correct tutelage.
For the record, strictly looking at the stars for both players in their first 3 seasons, they're interesting. - Minutes: Ronaldo 7289, Rashford 7159 - Appearances: Ron 118, Rash 123 - Games started/subbed on: Ron 76/42, Rash 74/49 - Goals: Ron 18, Rash 32 - Assists: Ron 20, Rash 17 Ronaldo, as we know, really took off in Year 4, never looked back and the rest is history.
The numbers to this point may be similar, but that's also comparing a forward to a wing mid. This is back when we played a 442 and Ronaldo way playing much further away from goal than Rashford has much of his career. Rashford has split his minutes between being a forward and being a wing forward in a 433. Ronaldo's position on the field changed as he became more prolific, but he still played a majority of his games as a winger in a 442. To anyone that's ever watched and understood football, it was clear that Ronaldo was more talented than Rashford and improved each and every season before his breakout. His main problem areas were his poor decision making, lack of an end product, and his tendency to showboat. Those got better each and every season. Rashford by comparison is still the same player he was when he joined. The only difference is that now he's more confident which only highlights his poor decision making. I'm not saying we should sell Rashford or that he's a bad player. I'm saying he's far off from being a guy that deserves to be an automatic starter and star like Roanldo and is closer to being Januzaj or someone that flashes and then fades and is eventually sold.
Ronaldo improved because of his obvious talent, extreme determination, but also because of guidance and good coaching. As previously stated, I'm not going to actually compare Ronaldo with Rashford, but I don't think it's out of bounds to make the claim that there was a good foundation to build upon with Rashford, based on what he's shown early on since joining United's senior team. Where the failure lies so far and what could perhaps ruin what looked like a potentially big future, is the lack of proper coaching and development, something that Ronaldo benefited from under SAF.
Think he is more likely to be a more talented welbeck than a ronaldo. Useful but not enough ultimately to be a Marquee player. His talent isn't sufficient to offset his limited intelligence and he will compensate by working hard .The longer he is with jm the more likely this will become
Incighte diminishes the argument for Rash, frankly. It's unfair to dismiss Rash as lacking game intelligence - the same argument applies, would he have spent 3 years being starved of tactical coaching in this manner at Citeh or Bournemouth? Ross Barkley said that before Starting he'd never really been given training in that manner, it had always been assumed that his natural talent was sufficient in that classic Engerland manner. Give him the ball and he'll just know what to do. Funnily enough he stalled for years and everyone wondered why he wasn't progressing like all the young European talents. If Rash developed Ronaldo's level of consistency and maximised his talent, he'd be a very, very good player. Nowhere near Ronaldo, but very good nonetheless. But Ronaldo's consistency is almost inhuman. It's pointless imagining Rashford coming close and it undermines the argument in his favour.
An even starker example, as far as I'm concerned, is Sterling. He's always had talent, but the way he's developed under Pep has been remarkable. He's literally made him into one of the best players in the league now, when it was believed he'd be a solid player at best. One btw, who was criticized for being all pace, with little football IQ as well. Coaching and player development is a real thing. Of course, hard work and the ability to listen are on the players themselves, but without proper coaching, most players fail to reach their true potential. Ronaldo is an outlier and truly special, and on that basis alone, it's unfair to even expect Rashford to meet his level. But there is certainly a level beyond mediocre and even good perhaps he can get to, provided he is developed properly.
I guess your point still stands. So im not really opposing you to debate. Sterling always had high regard. I don't think anyone ever classified his talent as being " solid player at best" A small tidbit of difference. Sterling already have 5 years or so, of 1st team football before Pep got him. He had a break out year in Liverpool under Rodgers Rashford hasnt had a breakout year yet. This is his 3rd season now coming in January
Pep still took Sterling to the next level in his development though. He's always hovered around the low teens in terms of scoring: either recorded 10 or 11 goals consistently from 13-14 until 16-17, which is pretty decent for a young player, but nothing earth shattering either (just like Rashford who has had 2 seasons in the low teens, scoring wise as well, with 11 and 13 respectively the last 2 terms). It's in his 2nd season under Pep that Sterling really blew up, with 23 goals. This season he's already at 9 (2nd highest scorer behind Aubameyang), but he's also amongst the leaders assist wise. Proof that last season does not appear to be a fluke and probably even getting better. If players appear to have a real breakout season in Year 4-5 or even 6, then Rashford may still be on course. For that to remotely have a chance of happening, a change in manager is an absolute plus.
Its so abrupt to even attempt to compare Ronaldo to Rashfird. Rinaldo was faster, better dribbler and could beat past few players even when in his debut campaign. I wil gladly take Ronaldo of 2003 over this 2018 Rashford who is bound to drop to midtable team in few seasons..
Every single thread or discussion we can possibly have about Utd boils down to the fact that Mourinho is a spent force and a shit manager of modern footballers. Anybody who deviates from this train of thought is either being wrong on purpose or hasn't thought about it properly. Judging anything about our players is impossible until he goes. Nothing about Utd matters until he goes. I suggest we all bring in board games or go play on the swings until he's sacked.
United were always the only club for me - Rashford www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11582748/marcus-rashford-says-manchester-united-were-the-only-club-for-him
🗣 “I'll work on his (Rashford) finishing, just settle down a little bit. He's got a great strike from outside the box and inside the box we'll just keep on working on being cool and calm and pass it past the keeper.”- Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. 🔴 pic.twitter.com/PElIEqMKkk— Football Tweet ⚽ (@Football__Tweet) December 27, 2018
Ie he will be coached. That should be music to anyone's ears and perhaps more than any other player on the team, it's not out of bounds to think that Rashford will be a pet project of Ole's in the coming months.
I was hoping to hear something like this from Ole on Rashford. So hopefully in next few months we will see improvement in his finishing he must have missed 15-16 consecutive 1vs1 chances.
A couple weeks ago I posted something similar on twitter. It might have been something like: if the problem is not run as fast as possible and then kick as hard as possible, Rashford is not the solution. Absolutely brainless footballer. I could get past the finishing if he would just be less selfish. I can't stand a player who makes all the wrong decisions all the damn time. I think comparisons to Ronaldo are, as others have said, outlandish. You can't just look at big level stats like goals/assists. Ronaldo probably took half as many shots as Rashford has inside the box in his first 3 seasons. Ronaldo was very much a cut in from the right and swing away with his left or take a pot shot. He got good chances on the counter later on, but I'd say many of his chances came at the end of a move as he was a creator rather than a finisher. In the end, it worked in his favour because he developed his movement.
Rash has only just turned 21 and was playing in a team where the strikers were setup to fail. So personally am happy to give him some time on his finishing as there is plenty there to like in the rest of his game. I think Ole has a grip on what the issues are too; https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ews/man-utd-goals-rashford-solskjaer-15602133 But it was his comments on finishing that were most intriuging. He told Norwegian station TV2: "I'm going to work with him on his finishing. He's just got to calm down a little bit. "He's got a great strike from outside the box and inside the box we'll just keep on working on being cool and calm and pass it past the keeper."
Why Ole is the perfect mentor to Rashford as he enters a crucial stage in his development. www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/12/29/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-perfect-mentor-marcus-rashford-reaches/
The improvement on finishing will be evident in month or 2 but i would still keep him for his off the ball workrate(both attack and pressing) and his mobile play upfront alongside Msrtial Lingard Pogs and with Lukaku its not possible.
Rashford has been transformed under OGS. www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11596173/marcus-rashford-transformed-under-ole-gunnar-solskjaer
OGS believes Rashford can have a big future. www.bbc.com/sport/football/46846531 Definitely brought his confidence back, if nothing else. And from there, who knows how far he can go?