Has the DP rule had a negative impact on our attack?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #176 IndividualEleven, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
    On Matchday 1 of the 2008 MLS Regular Season, Approx 79 of a total 132 starters were US-eligible. Approx 39 of the 79 were midfielders or forwards(i.e., attackers).

    source = football-lineups
     
  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    US eligible starters on Matchday 1 of the 2008 Season
    *=midfielder or forward

    Rogers(20)*Carroll(26)*Gaven(21)*Hejduk(33)O'Rourke(24),Marshall(23)Hesmer(26)Cunningham(31)*
    Dunivant(27)* Edu(21)*Wynne(21)Edwards(23)Rimando(28)Joy(26)Borchers(26)Wingert(25)Talley(31)* Beckerman(25)* Barrett(22)*Mapp(23)*Rolfe(25)*Prideaux(31)Gutierrez(35)Pause(26)Busch(31) Burciaga(26)Keel(24)Clark(23)*DiRaimondo(21)*LaBrocca(23)*Allen(21)*Vagenas(30)*Donovan(25)*
    Klein(32) Vanney(33)Gavin(21)Cronin(24)Reis(32)Heaps(31)Parkhurst(24)Albright(29)Larentowicz
    (24)Ralston(33)*Cristman(23)*Wondolowski(24)*Ching(29)*Holden(22)*Ashe(21* Mulrooney(31)*Barrett(31) Boswell(24)Robinson(29)Mullan(29)Hartman(33)Wahl(23)Conrad(30)Harrington(22)Leathers(22)*
    Zavagnin(33)* Pore(24)*Jewsbury(26)*McTavish(23)*Mediate(25)*Simms(25)*Burch(23)Namoff(28) Wells(26)Pitchkolan(24)Rhine(27)*Wagner(20)*Cooper(23)*Thompson(26)*

    source=football-lineups
     
  3. DCYC

    DCYC Member

    Chivas, DC United, Reno 1868
    Mar 24, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Straight answer to OP: YES. It has hurt USMTN, the Mexico team suffers the same, and if Harry Kane wasn´t just killing it... who would be the CF for England?

    If there's any position where owners invest in foreigners is in the striker position. Happens everywhere and top-league national teams struggle in that.

    Give me 2 TOP center forwards from:
    -England
    -Spain
    -Italy
    -France
    -Portugal
    -Netherlands
    -USA
    -Mexico
    - Rusia?
    - Turkey?

    Germany is an outlier.
     
  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Raheem Sterling, Jamie Vardy, and Harry Kane make for a nice forward pool.

    France have Griezman, Lacazette, Mbappe, Giroud, Fekir, etc..

    Argentina have an insane forward line.

    Most of the top countries do.
     
  5. DCYC

    DCYC Member

    Chivas, DC United, Reno 1868
    Mar 24, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Sterling CF? I´ll take Vardy thoug.

    France, only CF from those you mentioned is Giroud, and well... not that good. I´m a ATM supporter so I can clearly tell you Griezmann is no CF.

    Argentina does, because they export players like crazy just so survive economically. I mean, Barco went to Atlanta. Economically strong leagues import players like him, screwing local players. Talented leagues (Argentina, Colombia, Brazil, etc) export players like crazy, their NT will never ran out of those positions.
     
  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Many European countries also export their top players. Small guys can play CF.
     
  7. DCYC

    DCYC Member

    Chivas, DC United, Reno 1868
    Mar 24, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Like the US? Mexico? England? Spain? Italy?

    I mean talking about export specifically I don't think even Germany does that.
     
  8. DCYC

    DCYC Member

    Chivas, DC United, Reno 1868
    Mar 24, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    This would be an interesting stat...

    How many CF USMNT available start more games than they are bench in MLS?
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Dwyer, Agudelo & Altidore.
     
  10. DCYC

    DCYC Member

    Chivas, DC United, Reno 1868
    Mar 24, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    that's why you're out of the world cup
     
  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Nothing to do with not being able to T&T's B-team on the day.
     
  12. DCYC

    DCYC Member

    Chivas, DC United, Reno 1868
    Mar 24, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    well. T&T CF back then played in Mexico´s second division. USA CF played in top MLS. So I think that helps my point.
     
  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    You were asking, I replied. Never said they were good enough.
     
  14. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Altidore's not an "MLS-caliber" forward, though. He killed it at the very same level that Chucky's excelling at right now.
     
  15. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    Manhattan Beach
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    STFU. We're out of the WC because you don't have a Zusi.
     
  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    People have really selective memories when it comes to this. Altidore's excellence in the Eredevisie apparently didn't happen.

    Yup. International caliber or "elite" #9s are extremely hard to get. That's why clubs spend a fortune on them. We see that most of all in the Premier League, because they have the most money. People harp on about Jozy Altidore's price tag versus return for Sunderland. That's fine. But a whole host of clubs break their transfer records every year trying to find #9s. We can make a big long list. Ricky van Wolfswinkel? Their names are just kind of forgotten. Never mind that Norwich paid 10 million Euros for him and he never did anything. Leicester paid 28 million pounds for Islam Slimani. For that they got 8 goals in the Premier League across two seasons, and he's already been loaned out. We could go on ad naseum...................

    It just makes sense that with as many clubs in MLS as there are, there aren't enough domestic #9s that are good enough right now to go around. Neither are there enough #10s. The standard for #10s in MLS is Almiron, Valeri, Diaz, Higuain, etc. etc. Very Americans in that category. It just makes sense for clubs to spend big money on foreign #10s and #9s as these are real impact positions.

    When it comes to #9s there seem to be very few in the pipeline. That's why the recent U20 team had to dip into the U17s in order to "call up" Josh Sargent. Our recent U23 and U20 teams were very light on forwards. [Pulisic wasn't available of course.]

    Personally, the dearth of American forwards in MLS is a sympton of our developmental programs not keeping up with the expected level within MLS. You're not drafting a domestic version of Fenando Adi these days. Are you? No. You have to try to develop him yourself thru your academy. And when you do have a player of that caliber in your academy, you have to actually try to keep him there [which is difficult as we've seen with midfielders like Weston McKennie and Taylor Booth leaving.]
     
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Think about the characteristics most lacking in the American player: dribbling & tight ball control.

    Now think about the most necessary characteristics in a modern forward.

    The problem starts in childhood.
     
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  18. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brandon Vasquez might be more productive for Atlanta this season, if he gets more playing time.
     
    Eleven Bravo repped this.
  19. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    It is the most sparse position in world football. Most countries are lucky to have one. Further complicating things is that the definition is different. Kane is a much different #9 than Aguero; but they are both world class. Mexico will probably never develop a #9 like Lewandoski or Kane. Chicharito, Aubameyang, Aguero are or have been great but the team has to play differently.

    With the average size of Americans and youth coaches all over the USA playing, "put the big fast guy up front and lob the ball in his direction", you would think we would have more. We've had one of the classic #9 that played in a Top 4 league (McBride). We've had many more AMs and second strikers. Probably, because those were the smaller more technical players that looked for the rebound off the #9 in American youth soccer.
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I don't think it's a big problem at all. I want our best training with the best and am glad that there's interest.

    I also want our second tier players to develop better in MLS and am worried that this isn't happening. If there's one rule change I'd prefer, it would allow free movement for youth players before they sign and not geographical restriction.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    My prediction is that by MLS staying a mediocre league at best, more and more young players will sign with European teams completely by-passing it, getting acquired by a pack of cigs and some bubblegum as academy players, and 95%+ of them will be nothing but reserve youngsters who at best end up playing in the Hearts and Randers in Europe, as rotation workhorses, and at worst quit the sport at around age 25.
     
  22. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member+

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    Isn't this like normal odds on any Academy player?

    Even going on to Hearts and Randers at that point is probably low probability.
     
  23. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if we have one, just one, with the heart and skills to make it, those academies will identify it and make the most of it. I hear what you're saying, but for now those academies smoke anything we've got regardless of what the 'leaders' of USSF are spewing.

    No question an MLS in the top 5 leagues of the world would be a boon potentially to US player development but that may never happen and most likely won't in any of our lifetimes.
     
    Patrick167 repped this.
  24. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    That's why feeder leagues don't like sending academy players: they get nothing for them, and most of them become just talent wasted. Instead they develop them, playing them in their league, until they are 22 or so, then ship them out for some nice money --that is good for the club and the league, good income.

    It's also good for the NT: the player is an investment, the Euro club paying for him is going to develop him more and he's going to get his shot. No one is going to have 12m bucks sitting with the reserves.
     
  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    With MLS being rather weak and having an even worse reputation than it deserves, our choices are limited: the old model provided us with two or three players getting a decent position in Europe pet year, plus a nice group of decent at best workhorses as the support cast.

    Sending kids to Europe by-passing MLS may produce us one or two stars, but the support cast is going to be weak as hell. With most of our best youth, who could have been decent MLS players, instead going to rot with the Bournemouth reserves or as benchers in some Belgian club.

    I think this new impetus to "send them young" to Europe is going to bite us in the behind.
     

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