It doesn’t matter because the teams Argentina faced were mostly on equal footing with them. In fact England was ranked higher, #3 while Argentina at that point was #6. No Brazilian opposition in 1997 had the capabilities of taken Brazil out but more than a few could beat Argentina in 1986. The claims that Belgium 1986 was amateurish is ridiculous, they had Scifo, Cuelemans, Gerets, Pfaff; all seasoned WC veterans or young talents with tremendous experience in European competitions. A team that eliminated the Soviets and Spanish and it took a second half brace by Argentina’s captain to crack them open. In regards to your claims that Rummenigge was not regarded worse in the final: no source backs that up. Please do your homework kiddo! The Netherlands of 1974 only faced 2 major hurdles: Brazil and West Germany; the rest were ranked outside the top 10 or on equal footing, like East Germany. Inclusively the Dutch had the upper hand vs Brazil because a draw would sent them through. Like I said, you need to do your homework. Lots of conjecture you like to always spread around this forum.
Between 2013/14-2017/18 Neymars teams(Barcelona and PSG) scored 526 goals in the league Neymar scored 87 of them contributing to 17% of his teams total goals During the same period of time Chelsea scored 350 league goals Hazard scored 60 of them contributing to 17% of his teams total goals The huge gulf in difference between hazard and Neymar is an illusion that even I fell for As finishers they are in the same ball park with the only difference being hazard (until this season)played for two defensive minded managers while Neymar managed to stat pad to an unprecedented level for teams that score at a considerably higher rate Neymar was also being provided goal scoring opportunities on a plate by some of the greatest players of the last 30 years The best players hazard had we’re old terry, old lampard,old drogba,old Eto’o,past prime Fabregas Diego Costa was his only truly world class teammate during his time in Chelsea and he was a great goal scorer but not exactly known for his creative abilities There is no doubt Chelsea relied on hazard and continues to a much greater extent than Neymars clubs relied on him Neymar left and Barcelona still produced the same results (won the league in 17/18 and has a healthy lead this season) Chelsea losing hazard is like shooting yourself in the foot. Hazard arguably “singlehandedly” propelled Chelsea to the 2014/15 premier league title Neymar has yet to produce a signature season where it is clear his team would’ve not won a major title without his input So as of now hazard/Neymar are at the same level
Neymar is a phenomenal talent, but I’m somewhat disappointed in his progress. I honestly used to believe Neymar was that “once in a generation” player who would dethrone Messi-Ronaldo duopoly. Now, regarding the post, Neymar is already statistically better than Figo, but I doubt he surpassed Figo as an overall player nor do I believe he’s more talented. Neymar’s main weaknesses are his petulant behaviour and injuries(this is a key aspect considering injuries can severely affect or hamper a player’s ability). Considering he has only 4 years left to remain in top form, I doubt Neymar would even surpass Ronaldo Nazario’s or Ronaldinho’s legacy.
I’m more impressed with Hazard as a dribbler and was surprisingly a consistent dribbling threat in big competition like WC.
Yes agreed hazard has superior ball control but on the other hand Neymar is more direct and incisive. A lot of hazards dribbles happen in the centre of the pitch,with Neymar you get the feeling he can make something happen more often in the final third. Neymar has one clear advantage over hazard and that is in playmaking The stats don’t lie and Neymar is one of the best playmakers in the world and has been for at least a few seasons. If Neymar hasn’t seperated himself from hazard it certainly isn’t because they are close in talent(Neymar is far more well rounded and his ability on the ball is AT LEAST a whole rank above hazard) For now Neymar is a slightly lesser version of Ronaldinho as FW And hazard is a slightly lesser version of dejan savecivic(could play AM or FW) What placed these players above is they made their name in big matches which neither Neymar or hazard could do as of now In league matches Neymar at his very best looks close to prime Ronaldinho but in the champions league KO stages (QF to final) he looks like a Christian vieri or filippo inzaghi (a player who cannot make a difference except if he is spoon fed chances like in 14/15 for example)
Neymar reminds me of Gohan(Any Dragon Ball or Anime fan would be aware of the character). Gohan like Neymar had insane talent, but didn’t have the ambition to become a warrior like his father and hence wasted his potential. Neymar doesn’t seem ambitious and hungry like CR7 or Messi which is preventing him from fulfilling his potential. He’s too inconsistent to become a great like Messi,Ronaldo or some other top tier legends.
Fantastic analogy and yes I am quite familiar with the anime series(it was my favourite when I was growing up) Cristiano Ronaldo is a unique blend of talent+hardwork+ambition.many players have reached the top but not many can sustain that level for more than a few years Neymar is possibly as gifted as Ronaldinho gauchos ever was (I know it’s blasphemy to say that on this forum but I think it is clear) What seperated Ronaldinho was for a while he was very focused and no stage at club level fazed him. The Ronaldinho that appeared in league matches in 05/06 was the same Ronaldinho that appeared against AC Milan in the champions league semifinal Neymar has yet to cross that bridge but the crazy thing is he has all the tools to do so (he has a complete technical skillset in terms of playmaking,dribbling,good finishing but his aerial threat like Ronaldinho before him is weak) Neymar is already a “better” footballer than many previous Brazilian legends(Kaká,Romario,Rivaldo,post prime R9,he has arguably even matched rivelino as a playmaking specialist IMO) He is better than these players but at the same time he is not greater than these players. Greatness is achieved by leaving a untouchable legacy or at least an indelible mark on the game For Brazilians Romario is associated with World Cup 94 whether or not he deserves the plaudits isn’t really relevant. The perception is that he was the main reason Brazil won that World Cup That is greatness and Neymar can batter league minnows for another 50 years but if he doesn’t make the transition from great league player to the go to guy in the KO rounds of major competitions he will never achieve the recognition his talent deserves
and he is a generational talent. Imo he is already better than Ronaldinho for example and just < Zico and pre-injury R9 as AM/Winger/SS/Striker, you can argue about Romario that is surely one of the most lethal strikers ever too. But imo Neymar yes has the ambitious like Cristiano Ronaldo (different than Ronaldinho) and the quality too, Neymar is direct, he work hard vs top tier team, top dribbler, elite creator and good finisher this season like with Santos (being just average finisher in Barcelona). IMO he is a better talent than Cristiano Ronaldo no doubt about that, just lacks the durabilty and the elite athleticism of the Portuguese, as a footballer he is better, just below Messi. Having watching Hazard and Neymar many times, I see Neymar as a better player too, easily. Neymar's biggest problem imo was his stage in Barcelona that added nothing to his legacy as a legend (just in a secundary role working for Suarez and Messi) and his many injuries (WC 14, this year). But if he keep himself healthy and fit, he still has 4 CL to play, 1 Cup America and 1 WC until his 30... if he wins 3 of these 6 tournaments (or 50%) he would be material for TOP 10 in my opinion.... and c'mon after his 30 Cristiano Ronaldo won the Euro and 3 CL as a "protagonist" (which I disagree), but that surely helped to sediment his legacy as a all-timer, of that I have no doubt. So nowadays different from other times a player can still play at high level after the 30, depending on the professional level of the athlete and most important, the absence of injuries, his main problem imo. Stats for stats at age 26: Cristiano Ronaldo (turned 26 on Feb 5, 2011): 471 games, 213 goals, 89 assists. 302 direct goal contributions. 1 Ballon d'Or, 1 Golden Shoe. Lionel Messi (turned 26 on June 24, 2013): 461 games, 348 goals, 138 assists. 486 direct goal contributions. 4 Ballons d'Or, 3 Golden Shoes. Neymar Jr (turning 26 tomorrow; Feb 5, 2018): 520 games, 321 goals, 171 assists. 492 direct goal contributions. No Ballon d'Or or Golden Shoe. Yet. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/7v5a90/career_stats_at_26_of_neymar_messi_and_cristiano/ More complete stats here: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neymar#Clubes For NT Neymar with Brazil: 60 Goals, 40 Assists in 211 Brazilian Goals (47,4%) Messi with Argentina: 65 Goals, 42 Assists in 236 Argentinian Goals (45,3%) Cristiano Ronaldo with Portugal: 85 Goasls and 37 Assists in 305 Portuguese Goals (40%) Also Neymar is 60% creator, 40% scorer. Messi is more a scorer than a creator maybe (60/40) and Ronaldo is much more a scorer than a creator like a 80-20, so they have different approach in relation to the game too. In all the ways I appreciate more watching Neymar playing than let's say Cristiano Ronaldo or even Messi, of a entertaining point of view.
Considering how significant athletic superiority is in sports, that's a big thing to be lacking. Neymar does have some clear athletic advantages. He is faster and more nimble than most. CR7 is just an athletic freak, and that's a superiority that Neymar's superior technique cannot overcome. Not to mention CR7 also has a mental advantage over him.
He’s not ambitious at all, otherwise he could’ve achieved greatness. He’s more talented than someone like CR7 undoubtedly but the problem is his weak mental strength, injuries and bad work ethic. Talent is pointless if you do not work hard and that applies to every single field out there.
No ambition ? You're speculating a whole lot buddy. I think because he is not reaching your expectations, you have to make up reasons for it.
https://soccerment.com/2018/07/30/correlations-physical-and-technical-performances/ It's just the opposite, Neymar's superior technique is something that Cristano's freakish athleticism cannot overcome. Mental advantages? Like superior IQ or something? Focus, determination? Discipline? To me Neymar has better vision and plays with more intelligence than the Portuguese if anything, and although all the drama and lack of maturity he works just as hard. He has to improve his behavior (here I agree), but this is another story that doesn't have much to do with his level as a footballer. For today I would not say he has major faults in his work ethic either.
It really depends on how you define better. We can have our preferences for a more technically gifted player, but in the end, the final result is what matters unless you're a fan that puts a higher value on "beauty". Neymar may be more technically gifted, but Ronaldo's athleticism may very well just make up for it and then some because the end result, in terms of effectiveness, is better.
When did Neymar show this superior technique In a champions league QF to Final? He never did and possibly never will Ronaldo has 9/10 and even 10/10 performances in champions league quarterfinals finals and semifinals before he is 25 years old that Neymar cannot sniff And of course that has as much to do with mentality as he has to do with technique Second of all how do you quantify technical ability and determine who is better and who is worst? Ok Neymar is predominantly a FW in his prime and can play AM better than ronaldo.(I agree) Neymar is significantly weaker than prime ronaldo in most other areas including shooting,aerial threat,FKs,speed/durability Not to mention prime ronaldo had the stamina of a beast in his physical prime In the 90th minute of a match he could hurt you in the same way as he could in the first minute Solo goal scored in minute one Starts at 0:17 neymar could never do anything like this in Spain but became Ronaldinho 2.0 in the ligue 1 so you can understand my reservations about him Solo goal scored In minute 88 As for Neymar being a better dribbler you are completely out of your depth is your evidence that Neymar averaged more dribbles per match LOL Yeah and many of these dribbles came in the midfield for showboating purposes.neymar isn’t as direct as Cristiano,in fact there are probably like 3 dribblers in the history of football that I’m aware of that were as direct a dribbling threat as CR7 Ronaldos game in his dribbling prime 2006/07is actually quite easy to define Patrice Evra will pass him the ball on the flank and at full pelt ronaldo Would dribble through the heart of a defence No Messing around,no histrionics,no unnecessary tricks.do you know what kind of bravery it takes to be as direct as that knowing fully well PL defenders are going to kick the shit out of you and to an extent were even allowed to (certainly when compared to today for example) Prime dribbling Cristiano ronaldo made experienced world class defenders beg him on the pitch in front of their own teammates for ronaldo take it easy on them(not hearsay but an actual fact) Roma defender Panucci recalls that Cristiano ronaldo gave him the worst night of his career in the champions league quarterfinal in 2007 “If he starts with the ball you can't catch him," he said. "It's like he's Valentino Rossi. Or Juan Manuel Fangio. If you give me an engine maybe I could keep up with him. Otherwise it's helpless, just helpless” The versatility in ronaldos technique was also evident in the champions league semifinals against Arsenal Prime ronaldo has more tools at his disposal to hurt a team Only the very best teams in the history of football could shut him out (ie Guardiolas Barcelona for example) Neymars dribbling threat has been completely anonymous in every single Champions QF to final he has played. Now listen Cristiano Ronaldo was ranked top 30-40 all time when he was 24 years old.his peak was one of the greatest in football history to the extent that many respected journalists said a 23 year old ronaldo was a historical legend of football Patrick Barclay a well respected journalist for the Times said prime Manchester United ronaldo was Nat lofthouse and Sir Tom finney in one player You don’t know these players so I’ll explain. Sir tom Finley is arguably the greatest dribbler england has ever produced and Nat Lofthouse the greatest all round goalscorer England has ever produced Ronaldo was that in one player He went on to say “ not George Best, Denis Law, Bobby Charlton or even Duncan Edwards of the Busby Babes - has dominated a season as Ronaldo did in 2007-08. Clearly he is most comparable to Best, who was more elegant but less productive. While there have been few more histrionic players at Old Trafford, Ronaldo had all the abundant bravery of Best, whether in darting among defenders or throwing his head at the ball; apart from everything else, Ronaldo was devastating in the air. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...nkless-task-for-sir-alex-ferguson-vx7r3s9bmbq Gabrielle marcotti said ronaldo in 2007/08 was one of the greatest individual campaigns in football history https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/12/03/cristiano-ronaldo Neymar is compared to hazard and vice versa Apples and pears my friend Surely Neymar will first have to get out of the shadow of a teenage mbappe who is just getting started before he can be compared to top ten all time legends https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/en.as.com/en/2018/07/18/football/1531896689_012703.amp.html Neymar swapped being Messi’s shadow for being Mbappés shadow Very bad deal IMO
I am not going to say you don't make valid points here because you do. But saying that prime Ronaldo dribbling had "No Messing around,no histrionics,no unnecessary tricks." is so off it's not even funny. Ronaldo at ManU was full of unnecessary tricks. Here is a couple of examples ... Neymar is not in Mbappés shadow on the field. At least not now.
LMFAO Cherry picked from the propaganda vault of FC Barcelona failing tricks is what Ronaldinho routinely did in 2006/07 and 2007/08 when he lost his pace he relied on stationary skills and could hardly ever beat a man Except very rarely for example vs Bilbao in 06/07 (which wasn’t a true representation of the player he was at the time) Failing a skill is what directly led to the end of R9s prime (his injury vs lazio was aggravated by a failed step over) In any case for the two examples you have presented I can present 100+ examples of times where he succeeded.so really you have made a non point Note: That first example is from a friendly match What goes on in Friendly matches aren’t usually given that much consideration unless your name is Pele
This obviously went over your head. The point is not that he succeeded many and failed a few. The point is you claimed he was no non-sense dribbler that didn't do unnecessary tricks. No doubt he had many great direct runs, but he also did a lot of unnecessary tricks at ManU. It's not that different than Neymar. Messi is a pure direct no-nonsense dribbler. Not Ronaldo, not Neymar, not Ronaldinho.
I fail to see the correlation with ronaldo failing two unnecessary “party tricks” in his dribbling prime(one of which was actually in a inconsequential friendly match) And Neymar apparently being no different him A direct dribbling threat is more effective and useful than a “midfield dribbler” prime Cristiano ronaldo in his first La Liga season covered more ground than any player,was fouled more than any player,and dribbled more than nearly any striker (number 9) in recorded football history https://bleacherreport.com/articles/535860-lionel-messi-stat-talk Ronaldo made 3.3 dribbles per match as a striker in 09/10 When Messi became a CF in 2012/13 he dropped to 3.8 dribbles per match Like I said it’s apples to pears comparison Prime ronaldo (dribbling version)only requires the ball anywhere in the opposition half to make a difference by himself (not via playmaking but dribbling) Hence the reason he had an avalanche of dribbling goals ala R9 during his prime that Neymar could only do in Brazil but never in Europe (not even once)
Again, you said Ronaldo didn't do unnecessary tricks at ManU. That's a lie. I am not sure how else to put it.
I am not disputing that Ronaldo wasn't more devastating on the run. He was faster and stronger and still a very good dribbler in his prime. That's pretty clear.
It is known he cut out the showboating phase post 2006 Even the freestyle skill he did against Arsenal in 2007/08 had a purpose (in that he was running down the clock)
I think some of Neymar's CL performances like 2nd leg against Bayern in 2015 and 2nd leg against PSG in 2017 are being forgotten about.
like 60% of Neymars goals were scored in the Brazilian league which fluctuated between the 5th and 7th best league in the world The only things that matter By 26 years old Lionel Messi had 4 ballon dors+2x runner up Main protagonist in 4 league titles+main protagonist in 2 champions league titles Cristiano Ronaldo at 26 years old 1 Ballon D’Or+3 time runner up Main protagonist in 1 champions league title+1 champions league runner up+3 league titles Neymar by 26 years old 3rd place ballon +never a protagonist in any trophy for Barcelona +never top scored+never top assisted in Europe You are misleading people with your cherrypicked stats Neymars exploits weren’t just overshadowed by Messi(this is demonstrably false) If he was so clearly better than any player not named Messi than why does he have only one 3rd place finish in the Ballon D’Or and he is almost 27 At many stages during his career in Spain he was outshone by players NOT named ronaldo or Messi In 13/14 at 21 years old he was outperformed by Luis Suarez,Gareth bale,angel Di Maria arguably even Diego Costa even though he functions in a different role In 14/15 he was outperformed by Suarez(again and according to many Barcelona fans),arguably even hazard who played in a team with different dynamics (more defensive) and scored higher on whoscored for example At 21 years old Messi is the best player in a treble winning team At 21 years old ronaldo is a undisputed top 3 player in Europe with the best league performance by any body in Europe’s top 5 leagues At 21 years old Neymar is still a rookie trying to understand why his tricks for Santos won’t work in La Liga Neymars form fluctuates too much Ronaldos or Messi’s level is a flat line that peaks but hardly drops
They are different players like I said Cristiano Ronaldo is imo 80% scorer, 20% creator, Neymar 60% creator, 40% scorer. Neymar is better dribbler and playmaker and Ronaldo arguably better finisher. Some nice charts which evidence this: Neymar vs Cristiano Ronaldo (2014-2015 to nowadays)