@PuckVanHeel Good post. The only thing I would add is that in the 2015 CL run, Neymar was definitely the second most important player after Messi. Neymar has 30 goals and 22 assists in 49 CL matches. So far in his short PSG career, he has 9 goals and 4 assists in 9 matches. In terms of goal involvement, he's definitely up there with the elite. Even in the knockout stages, he has 11 goals and 4 assists in 20 matches. Career-wise, we can say that some legends like Figo, Henry etc. have accomplished more and are thus still "greater" players right now, but Neymar is clearly better than those guys ever were. He is also a very different player so it is kind of hard to compare but I would have him over them without really thinking hard about it.
Honestly there is nothing 'intangible' about the argument that Neymar probably is the worst player ever in the air, and I mean he really literally is mediocre in the air, at Barcelona I witnessed him make a thorough mess out of easy headers a good number of times. Furthermore, there's also nothing 'intangible' about the fact that he was not good vs. Belgium, where he was easily dispossessed a good number of times, and where his one good run was ideal for him, but otherwise he failed at everything else that wasn't perfectly suited to his strengths. Watch that game again, and make notes if you need to: Nothing intangible about how much of a disappointment he was in that game. (I would also further add that Neymar-Marcelo's ball hogging down the left flank, totally killed Willian's participation, which I think was tactically a mistake, as Willian had been amazing in the previous game vs. Mexico.) Well Barca did become a Quarter Final bust in the Neymar era. I mean even the inconsistent Barcelona 2012/13 was competitive enough to stumble into the Semi Finals, even Barcelona 2007/08 also stumbled into the Semi Finals (and very nearly eliminated one of the greatest Manchester United sides ever), and it very much was in the Ney era that Barcelona started getting routinely eliminated in the Quarter Finals, and in my opinion, a lot of that should have something to do with the argument that Neymar indeed is a tactical liability, as is Messi, the difference being that Messi is less of a liability and more of a consistent difference maker. The best case scenario I can make for Neymar, is that he is not a tactical liability or at least nowhere near as big of a tactical liability as I think he probably is, and that simply Andres Iniesta plus Neymar (plus Dani Alves and Jordi Alba) was never tactically a good thing for Barcelona, too much of the same thing for a team that had lacked defensive reliability ever since Puyol's age caught up with him, especially in the Champions League, which would somewhat fit into the narrative that Neymar's best Champions League was 2014/15, which also was by far Iniesta's most defensive and most conservative Champions League ever. Moreover, the 2014/15 Champions League also suited Barcelona, in terms of the opponents that Barcelona got on route to the final; Manchester City (still to this day a Champions League bust), Paris Saint Germain, a significantly depleted Bayern Munich (where Neymar had been decidedly unimpressive right up until Messi opened the game up in such a way that it also largely predefined the dynamic of the second leg, very much to the benefit of Neymar who impressed in the second leg, probably Neymar's best open play performance in the CL for Barcelona), and Juventus (which was arguably by far the most stylistically difficult opponent for Barcelona that season, and Neymar was clearly inferior to both Messi and Iniesta here). In the grand scheme of things, Barcelona 2014/15 did not get the clubs that are known to be the kryptonite to Barca's philosophy, and every single time that Atletico Madrid got in the way thereafter, Barcelona was eliminated in the Quarter Finals. Of course, Barcelona 2017/18 was also eliminated in the Quarter Finals in spectacular fashion, but this was more of a self-destruct mode for Barcelona, than it was a case of Barcelona not playing badly (or horribly as was the case vs. Roma) but also not finding that extra-step to win a difficult game, which is what happened twice vs. Atletico Madrid in the Quarter Finals. But again, in most years, Neymar had a good game when Messi and Iniesta were relatively quiet/bad, or Messi and Iniesta were good when Neymar was relatively quiet/bad, so tactically it always looked as though Neymar, while being an amazing player, was the main factor that tactically tilted the balance of the team to the detriment of the team. Case in point: Neymar was great vs. PSG 2017, but Messi and Iniesta were very quiet vs. PSG 2017; and then Messi was pretty good in the first leg vs. Juventus 2017, but Neymar offered practically nothing. This dynamic repeated itself all the time... For the record: I also criticize Luis Suarez for his abysmal performances in some of those big games (especially vs. Juventus 2017 and vs. Atletico Madrid 2016), but the striker has always been the one position that has had the most difficult time in Messi's Barcelona, not because of Messi's failure to provide the service, but because of Barcelona's philosophy which arguably works better with a low scoring hold-up striker such as Olivier Giroud, than it works with a classical nine like Luis Suarez. In other words, it is Neymar's role and position that has done better in Messi's Barcelona, which means that Neymar arguably had a bigger responsibility to deliver in those big games where he clearly - even when he wasn't plainly bad - failed to offer that extra-step to compensate for what Barcelona was losing (seemingly tactically) by having him there. At any rate, even if I'm actually very wrong with my observations, I'm honestly not trying to find intangibles to bash Neymar with, I just honestly have never been convinced by Neymar, who in my opinion is a master of the art of flattering to deceive with machine-like precision. Hopefully Neymar will prove me wrong in such a way that my current views will sound thoroughly ridiculous in the non-distant future, as that could only be good for football. (And especially if he cuts down on the overly petulant nature of his persona.)
Your post is definitely more tangible than intangible LOL. Neymar's inability to thrive in games at the same time as Messi and Iniesta isn't because Neymar can't adapt IMO. It's because the offense can only run one way at a time. If Barca is attacking through the middle clearly Neymar will be less involved. Ditto for Messi if the attack is building from the wings. It's true that Barca could often have used his ability to break the defense down from the wings especially against a finely organized team like Juve or Atleti which are exceedingly hard to just go through the middle. I mean I can't disagree with that part. It's far too early to judge Neymar anyways. He'd had one year with PSG thus far as the man of the team where they got literally the worst possible opponent in the Round of 16 and he got injured on top of it. If another 5 years pass and he never even makes a CL final with a stacked team then we can criticize him. That's my view on it. So far, he was a major cog on a treble winning team as a young young player and clearly has the talent to be an all time great. He hasn't really disappointed my expectations at least.
For the full campaign arguably, but from the last group stage on I'd say Suarez really. His grade among all competitions was initially below Neymar but he balanced it out in the 2nd half (had the winner in the 'Clasico' too, a crucial win for the championship). Suarez had a goal and assist in the final group stage game against PSG (3-1 win at home), making sure they finished on top of the group with PSG two points behind. Some saw him as MOTM. Then Suarez had two goals in the 1st leg against ManCity in the round of 16 (1-2 win away), and two goals again in the 1st leg of the quarter final against PSG (1-3 win away). Both were MOTM candidate performances (the famous Messi vs ManCity game was the 2nd leg, not first leg). Then with the game 1-0 for Bayern in the 2nd leg of the semis (first leg 3-0) he assisted Neymar two times although it always felt Barcelona was never in danger. The stadium atmosphere was accordingly. In the final against Juventus Suarez scored the goal for 2-1. Suarez had three man of the match worthy performances while I'm not sure Neymar had that (and Neymar had 0 assists throughout the campaign). Maybe harsh to say but Neymar scored 6 of his 7 KO goals when the tie was already over - I think none of his KO goals had the 'wow factor' that Suarez vs PSG had. Add in his work rate at the time and his more varied role and I'd say Suarez was the more crucial piece. The two goals against PSG were entirely created by himself, and also the 1st goal against ManCity was not an easy one. But Suarez has a sloppy style and was not as good in the 1st half of the season. A good Suarez was more impactful for Barcelona going far than a good Neymar. 'Good Suarez - bad Neymar' was less damaging than 'good Neymar - bad Suarez' (as was visible in 2017, or the back end of 2016). Now Neymar is gone also Alba is released again. Figo was a very different player (never the primary shot taker - more comparable to Robben in the way he impacted games), Henry is quite comparable. I think it is not an automatic given that Henry until the age of 26-27 (i.e. his age in 2003-2005) was the inferior player to Neymar. Not in achievements and not in his own contribution. ... and that also applies to this comment although despite his injuries the tangibles were still there (here and here). Here Gianfranco Zola on him.
I was surprised to see zidane with 4 semifinal goals.he is The only attacking midfielder on the list and his goals are quite evenly spread (I believe) Perhaps you are correct that a Comparison between Henry and Neymar would be more appropriate. Personally I think the best of Henry at champions league level is still better than the best of Neymar Henry vs inter Milan in 03/04 was legendary without doubt-and so was his league campaign I would say Neymar was at his very best vs PSG and Celtic in 16/17 (I was not impressed by his all round performances in 14/15 even though he top scored) As a all round attacking threat I think Neymar isn’t a whole cut above Henry but marginally better(certainly in technique and playmaking-Henry is obviously a better scorer considering arsenal was a low scoring team compared to many super clubs today) Robben is a proven match winner-the go to guy in crucial ties.luis figo never was that as reflected by his semifinal and final record in major cups. I use to think Neymar was a overrated prima Donna but I must admit he has surprised me. Like I’ve already said all I think is missing from neymars resume is a few great performances in so called big matches after which he can compare him to the very best level of Ronaldinho He would have to win international silverware to climb any higher in the Brazilian all time rankings
It's a surprise because Zidane has 'only' 14 Champions League goals (in 82 matches). Maybe it is forgotten because three of those goals were rather inconsequential and came late in the game (i.e. the 89th minute conciliation goal with Juventus 3-0 up in the 2nd leg).
Suarez was absolutely terrific in one of the PSG legs when he nutmegged David Luis not once but twice. I remember it vividly. Still, Neymar was better overall in that CL run than Suarez was. The Bayern tie was clearly in Barca's favor after Messi's brace but Neymar carried it home with the third goal and then two more in the second leg to ensure that the tie would be won. Good Suarez vs Good Neymar... I don't know. They were both important to Barca's success and Suarez himself is an underrated creator. I'd take peak Neymar in the CL (PSG 2015, Bayern 2015, PSG 2017) over peak Henry. Other than as a pure finisher, Neymar brings a lot more to the team. He's a bigger dribbling threat and a better playmaker. Neymar has 7 CL goals against PSG, 4 against Bayern, 1 against Atleti, 1 against Arsenal, 1 against Man City. Those are 14 goals against some good teams right there. As for international silverware, Copa next year is a big opportunity.
As Real Madrid winning the CL last thee seasons with huge assistance from referees and when they really deserve one or two maximum, and the fact that the semi finals always seems to have Barca, Real & Bayern in the semis means it would be a welcome change, by stating love to see PSG win, I mean compared to the those three, I would much rater see Atletico, Dortmund, Roma, w in but that is much more unlikely. My personal view is the CL has gone very stale and predicable the last few years, and lacks the excitement of a few years ago.
@PDG1978 @celito @Tropeiro @greatstriker11 @leadleader @PuckVanHeel @Vegan10 @ko242 This maybe a tad controversial but it’s my personal opinion that Neymar was in the first half of 2017/18(before his injury) performing at the same level as the true greats of the game. If he had the aerial ability of Cristiano Ronaldo and physical strength of Ronaldo de Lima he would be a worthy competitor of Pele. I’ve seen a lot unique talents in football but not many who have combined artistry and effectiveness to the same level as Neymar. I think his potential is endless barring injury he should be ranked as the best Brazilian player since Pele He is so far above his contemporaries (Hazard,bale,pogba etc) that a comparison is actually not fair on them Those players can aspire to reach the heights of Figo,nedved,Henry etc Only injury and/or a lack of discipline could prevent Neymar from reaching the pinnacle of footballs greatest (This isn’t wishful thinking but based on his performance and all round game which is simply stupendous) @Danko I can’t explain it but his playing style looks like a cross between Cruyff and Ronaldinho
Of course he is great, TOP10-15 all-time material depending on the titles he win as the biggest figure (he still 26), but I don't agree that he would be worthy rival for Pelé... By raw talent I think R9 and Zico had clearly more potential (in Zico's cases more technical quality) and perhaps some others too... in fact I'm not sure that Maradona despite all the hype was 'unquestionably better' than Zico was for example, but I don't have the advanced stats to prove it... if one day the advanced statistics proved that Zico at his peak (1975-1982) was a more accurate and effective passer, finisher and also dribbler than the argentine I could believe it myself. I believe that Zico in some moment of his carrer, maybe Cruyff and Messi (10-12 and 14/15) were the only ones that reached a similar level of dominance and quality in their clubs compared to peak Pele (57-66) in modern (1970-) times. Don't forget that Neymar is nothing special being a goalscorer... Neymar https://understat.com/player/2099 Expected Goals 88.44 Goals/ Actual Goals 86 Messi https://understat.com/player/2097 Expected Goals 122.46/ Actual Goals 146 ^^ However, Neymar had more KP than Messi in his last two seasons. ....while Pele at his peak was very very probably a superb goalscorer, even after his peak. and R9 was a phenomenon at such young age that Neymar didn't come close. Ronaldo 96-97 (20 Years Old) in Barcelona was perhaps better than all the seasons of Neymar in Spain (21-25 years), and if not better, at least more impressive as a main man than Neymar as second man. This is my opinion... and for Inter de Milan you could talk: and I think Italian football especially in the past (90's) was harder to play and to be 'the man' than it is now in La Liga playing for Barcelona or Real. But leaving aside the comparisons of the past, many here said that Neymar played better in Barcelona without Messi, but they forgot to say that Messi also played better in Barcelona without Neymar, it was a boss fight there. Maybe if Neymar had gone to a club other than the Barcelona he could have already won more things as the main figure and could be certainly better considered today as a player, quality he clearly has to do it. I mean, maybe Barcelona was a bad choice in his career, what do you think? Now it depends on winning international competitions because the Ligue 1 has much less hype to La Liga for example.
Moving to Barcelona no doubt facilitated his progress as a player Remember neymars transformation from season to season starting as a showboating pony to becoming a world class finisher and the 2nd best player on s treble winning team From then he has evolved into one of the worlds most dynamic playmaking forwards even now trying his luck as a attacking midfielder It’s bizzare to claim he is nothing special as a scorer when he is less than 80 goals from equalling R9s career haul (As of December 2017 he had 167 assists compared to around 110+ assists for R9-who played many more games) Neymar especially towards the end of his Barcelona tenure wasn’t a lesser player than rivaldo (in fact he was a much better team player and comparable goalscorer) By the end of this season if he maintains his level and is the protagonist behind another league title and manages to reach the CL semifinals as the undisputed star of his team he will surpass many recent legends Including Henry,Figo,Stoitchkov and I wouldn’t hesitate to place him in the same rank as rivaldo even if he has yet to match his international performances (he would’ve surpassed him at club level by a clear margin)
I wouldn't go so far as placing Rivaldo a whole tier above Figo & Henry, I think the three of them are in the same ball park. I also believe all three are a bit above Neymar as things stand and a CL semifinal alone won't be enough for them to be surpassed. Messi & CR7 almost had to redefine the sport (exaggerating a bit here) to earn their lofty rankings, so I doubt a CL semi with a super team in a transitional season (Bayern are in disarray, Madrid look so toothless so far, Valverde is really underwhelming, and Juventus lose a few things to gain what they do with CR7). As far as I can remember with Neymar there's always points in the season where he looks to be at least the 2nd best player in the world, then he fizzles out as the season progresses - 17/18 was unfortunate with the injury, and 16/17 was very very frustrating, for those that watched Barca frequently. Missing very easy chances and hogging the ball for prolonged periods. Puck already mentioned the impact it had on Alba's game who has looked a different player since Neymar left. Figo's time at Barcelona is severely underrated by @carlito86 He was consistently one of the best in the world back in those days, and the goals comparison is not really honest as his role and style was different to Neymar's. I've still not seen any player transition between both wings and also play centrally in the same match with the fluidity Figo did in those years. His technique (Thierry Henry's too once he refined and stopped being purely a 'runner') was much cleaner. Another point - I'm not so sure Neymar is that far ahead of Hazard that a comparison would be unfair.
Neymar had 33 Goals and 23 Assists in 39 Matches 2017-2018, not so bad. https://footystats.org/players/brazil/neymar
^^ Carlitos, according some stats Neymar also perfomed well in the World Cup18 (He had a good WC14 as well): https://soccerment.com/2018/07/19/world-cups-top-11-launch-spr/ https://soccerment.com/2018/07/28/russian-matryoshkas-historical-vs-world-cup-performances/ Also he is very criative, still more in PSG: https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation...s-deeper-look-at-creativity-and-great-players Average of 9 according whoscored in 2017/2018 https://www.whoscored.com/Players/50835/History/Neymar Be in the WC, CL or in the French league, Neymar was an elite playmaker, dribbling threat, very good finisher in 2017/2018. No doubt he can match with the greatest in this season.
Agreed although I must stress the ultimate test will be in the champions league and even though Neymar has been a relatively strong World Cup performer his best performances have come in the group stages and round of 16 (Legends are made from the QF to final) Neymar is extremely almost criminally underrated on this forum by posters who stuck so far Messi’s arse they cannot see or even recognise when another player is performing at a superlative level I don’t think even a prime Ronaldinho would gain as much recognition nowdays as he did in the weak 2004-2006 era (It is easier to be noticed when you only have one legitimately great competitor (ie Henry) at his peak and a host of past it superstars like zidane ,R9,figo,Raul,rivaldo etc Neymar is battling against not 2 generational talents but two all timers at their peak competing in the same league (as late as 2017) The cards were stacked against him from the beginning.
Leave Ronaldinho or Henry aside and let's focus on Neymar. I do think Neymar is performing at the level of Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, more at the level of Cristiano though, Messi's peak is one level above imo, he has clear advantages over Neymar in athleticism and is also a more prolific scorer at his peak, in creativity, game vision and dribbling I would say they are up to par. Messi has a more direct focus than Neymar as well. The Brazilian is more focused on creating plays proportionally. I'll leave one thing clear, I think the main level would be still the World Cup, that's my opinion, then the Champions League. But one undeniable thing is that the consistency of performances against all opponents - of all levels - is a very underrated aspect too. Now regarding Neymar's game against Belgium, he gave 7 key passes, one if I remeber a wonderful for Coutinho to throw the ball out of the stadium... and Neymar ended up almost scoring the Brazilian Goal in the last minute, with the best defense of the entire WC being made by the Belgian GK. Make no mistake, Brazil crushed Belgium in that game, unfortunately defensive failures and a own goal by Ruinzinho ended the Brazilian chances, though. 0:11 On Neymar in Barcelona he had a more specific game than in PSG, he was always more on the left acting specifically while in PSG he has freedom for much more, and he is not conditioned to Messi and to role specially designated as secondary since before he had arrived, which per se is not wrong from a Barça perspective. If Neymar had gone to another team before the Barcelona any achievement he would have would be credited in his name, honestly a better option should have been to go to PSG itself from the start. Now let's see, the 2018-9 PSG has great values like Mbappe and Cavani, but still looks like an unbalanced team, let's see what he can do, though. His legacy is still under construction though, at the age of 27. Now we can't deny that he has performed well in all major competitions, National Leagues, CL, WC.
@Tropeiro You already know what my take on the situation is Neymar has along way to match ronaldos peak level (he will also never match his consistency) Ronaldo 2007-2009 3x ballon dor under pre 1995 rules 1 European golden boot 1 champions league trophy as the protagonist (2008) 1 champions league final as the main protagonist (2009) Neymar could maybe reach this level when his career is finished(20% chance) At Real Madrid ronaldo became the goat European forward (unmatched) 6 consecutive 50+ goal seasons 150 assists 30-45 pre assists 4x champions league trophies as the main protagonist This Ronaldo is impossible for Neymar to reach (Probability is 0.01% as nothing is impossible but chances are VERY slim) Neymar is a playmaker so it is expected he will surpass ronaldo as a passing specialist What you did not consider is nobody combined goat scoring with legendary wingplay as Ronaldo did in 2008,2011 and 2012 Prime CR was a chance creating machine capable of any and every single type of pass
They are a different players, Neymar is a better playmaker and better dribbler than Cristiano Ronaldo at his peak while Cristiano Ronaldo is more athletic and a better finisher in his peak (but Neymar is improving his shooting ability and accuracy with PSG, he is still 26 btw). CR7 is more direct than Neymar in his game too. Probably, you will not see Neymar making 50 goals in a season like CR7 or Messi or Ibra or Suarez or Jardel etc even because it isn't his style, his game is more focused in build-up the plays compared to these players... and now Mbappe is taking most shots in PSG, before maybe it was Cavani last season. So, unlike Cristiano Ronaldo that as the years went was becoming more and more an striker, Neymar is going more towards the middle of the pitch. Nowadays, Neymar is just the third finisher option of PSG probably, so the competitor of these numbers will most likely be Mbappe. Here you can see the differences: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Y5g...10229163/Top_Players_In_the_World___Table.png Neymar is a Dynamic Playmaker playing for Brazil or PSG: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/neymar-2018/ Cristiano Ronaldo at his peak between a creative attacker and a elite goalscorer. the only Cristiano Ronaldo that is more or less comparable in style with Neymar is the CR7 of 2006/2007 season and the 06WC where he was classified as a dynamic playmaker too. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/cristiano-ronaldo-2006/
Which source claimed Neymar reached CRs prime level of dribbling (2006-2008 before his ankle injury in March) Even in 09/10 when CR played like a striker (but with a free role) he averaged more than 3 dribbles per match 3 dribbles per match in crowded areas is a ridiculous stat and more impressive than the 5 dribbles per match hazard and Neymar had as wing dribblers (or midfielders as is hazards case) Opta stats didn’t record ronaldos prime dribbling season 2006/07 when he was an orthodox winger but he was an insanely prolific and direct dribbler (not seen since R9 96/97) Only difference is CR lacked R9s finishing ability so he did not score a dozen solo goals I understand you are a patriotic Brazilian football fan but the facts are prime CR is not an inferior dribbler to any Brazilian footballer except garrincha and probably falcao (not the 80s footballer but the Brazilian futsal player LOL) I’m sorry to tell you that 06/07 CR wasn’t a less direct or skillful dribbler than prime R9,prime Ronaldinho,zico,Tostao,kaka,rivelino Even Pelés rough style of dribbling vs suspect defenders was no match for CRs dribbling in the strongest league in Europe 06/07 ronaldo was a devastating dribbler with insane work rate and stamina(in the 90th min he would look as dangerous as in the 1st minute) Pundits we’re saying he should be handed pfa player of the season in November 2006(3 months into the season) as no one was even remotely comparable to his level Ie prime drogba,prime lampard,prime gerrard,fernando Torres,John terry,Dirk kyut,mascherano,Alonso,fabregas,Van persie,Rooney,vidic,scholes etc this was a league stacked with world class talent and not heavily concentrated in two teams like Spain or Germany or on 1 team in France (The PL today has great attackers but shit defences that leak goals) Neymar is on an extremely dominant team in a one team league (A big fish in a small pond as we say over here) But when they come to the ocean that is the champions league they look as threatening as sardines Ronaldo was a proven champions league legend at 24 years old We are still waiting for a 27 year old Neymar to make his name (as the protagonist)
Cristiano Ronaldo 2006-2007 is not CR7 at his peak and he wasn't at level of Neymar in playmaking, finishing etc, btw I doubt that CR7 in 2006-2007 was a better dribbler than Neymar, that the portuguese completed 5.6 dribbles like Neymar in Barcelona (let alone 7+ in his new role with PSG), I bet on 4/4.5 and he didn't maintain that level for so long, in 2008-2009 he had less than 2 complete dribbles, if I remember well. I could make a case for CR7 being at the same level in 06-07 though, but Neymar being more technical. and Neymar had also very good season at La Liga too (a league where Barcelona and Real Madrid were arguably still more dominant than PSG in the France league), the only player that beat Messi according the Whoscored methodology even being in a secundary role: https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...3955/PlayerStatistics/Spain-La-Liga-2016-2017 So he's ability is proved in La Liga too... and he is proved in UCL and WC too: Carlitos, Neymar is the MVP according football observatory being the best player on take ons and creating chances. http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2018/237/en/ Neymar http://www.football-observatory.com/-profile-42987-_none Cristiano Ronaldo http://www.football-observatory.com/-profile-2230-_none I agree that Neymar will have to win at least one or two CL or a WC as the protagonist to be placed in the TOP10-15, he has time since he still 26, let's see if PSG will form a good team, by quality he is out there imo, that he doesn't make 50 goals doesn't matter since he is not this type of player. Should I find Jardel better than him for this? Btw, like I said Neymar is a dynamic playmaker, Cristiano Ronaldo at his peak was something between a creative attacker to a elite goalscorer, the only CR7 more or less compareble with Neymar's style is the 06-07 CR7. Imo: Cristiano Ronaldo 2006-2007 Dynamic Playmaker, Creative Attacker 2007-2008 - 2009-2010 Creative Attacker 2010 2011 - 2013-2014 Elite Goalscorer, Creative Attacker (Peak CR7) 2014-2015 - Elite Goalscorer Neymar Dynamic Playmaker (Peak Neymar) http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/par...-messi-and-ronaldo-stats-but-needs-silverware
You are getting slightly confused here 2006/07 is most certainly part of his peak (top 2 ballon dor,best player in England) The mere fact that you acknowledge ronaldo excelled in 3 different roles Places him on a totally different pedestal to Neymar Ronaldo was a elite playmaking winger really in one full season 2006/07 (I agree but would add Manchester United played 4-4-2 in all premier league matches in 2007/08 so ronaldo was a midfielder with a free role to do as he wanted-and he caused havoc all over the opposition half .in champions league matches SAF played 4-3-3 so ronaldo was a WF but in the PL he was a pure winger This is ronaldo at his very best functioning as playmaker (attacking midfielder)in 07/08 vs Aston Villa (Some say it is his best ever Manchester United performance but I’m not totally convinced) After his ankle injury that he carried into the 08/09 season I think he lost some of his natural flair and became too muscular as reflected by his stiff style in 08/09 (and ineffective skills) I think his champions league form in 08/09 was much better than his PL form (and not just his aesthetical value but his all round attacking threat was just evidently superior) In 2009/10 he was a creative forward who created a lot ,dribbled and scored alot (Arguably his most complete version) From 11-14 he was a dynamic forward scoring alot,created alot but perhaps never dribbled enough In 14/15 season and 16/17 CL ko stage he became a goat striker (a box striker who starts out wide but quickly finds his way into the box-this is the only time his worth can be compared to strikers like Romario and Van Basten Before this CR was too dynamic in his role to be compared to limited players like them) Ronaldos versatility an attacker is as important to his legacy as his talent and consistency but sadly an underrated or underplayed aspect of his game
Neymar was also the best chance creator in the WC18 (5.6 per game) https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/world-cup-2018-5-most-creative-players-so-far-ss/5 He is with the greats in this aspect (read post #68) https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/is...tacking-midfielder-of-all-time.2087266/page-3
Yes, Ronaldo excelled in 3 different roles, but usually most people consider the role of a Dynamic Playmaker with a higher esteem and in this role the only season that Ronaldo could really fit is 2006/2007 (and more comparable with Neymar of Barcelona). Neymar as a Dynamic Playmaker, especially with the new role with PSG, is superior and a improved version of this Cristiano Ronaldo, better dribbler, better creator, better finisher (Ronaldo was really poor this season at finishing and Neymar is getting better, he was good in 2017-2018), likely much more envolved, proved in UCL, WC, National Leagues. The Cristiano Ronaldo of Real Madrid and even of the last two seasons at Manchester can't be compared with Neymar. They are just playing different.
The World Cup is too small a sample size for you to reach the conclusion that he is with the greats (as a playmaker) A sample size that is too small reduces the power of the study and increases the margin of error effectively rendering your analysis worthless If Neymar continues along the same trajectory I have no reason to believe he will not be ranked a top 20-25 all timer when he is retired For him to be any higher he would have to define an era Neymar isn’t at that level yet or even remotely near that level yet Personally I don’t think hazard is at his level but until that is a unanimously held opinion,until he has clearly seperated himself from the chasing pack he will be no more than a generational talent (in the mould of a rivaldo,stoichkov,laudrup etc) Being the protagonist behind one World Cup trophy isn’t enough (I would agree if this was Brazil 14) but the Brazilian NT has come a long way since then boasting fully fledged World class players like countinho,Firmino,even veterans like alves ,Marcelo,Silva (and the world class talent that is Jesus) In a team filled with such players he would have to put on a performance for the ages Anything below champions league domination will lot be enough for Neymar The bar has been set extremely high by the Messi and ronaldo if he can meet them halfway then maybe top 20 status is a sure thing Remember it’s easier said than done just look at Luis suarezs champions league record over the past few seasons (it is abysmal despite being the focal point of a superteam) I won’t wager against Neymar doing anything as I think he is a supremely talented individual (I’m just unsure about his mentality and if He manages to get to the top how long he will stay there)
He was also the top creator playing in Spain: so he is resistant to larger samples. He is elite dribbler and also a elite playmaker and he's getting better and better as a finisher too. If he does not win anything but still maintain the same level of 2017-2018 (make no mistake overall he played like the best of this sport last season) for another 5 seasons he will still be ranked as TOP20 in my opinion without problem... if he wins 1-2 UCL as a protagonist (and in his case he will be protagonist even because he is playing as 10) or even a World Cup as a protagonist I see no reason to him be not ranked as TOP10. He has at age 26, 184 assists and 340 goals... imo he could reach around 600 goals and 300+ assists if he plays seriously until about 35 years, all of it being a Dynamic Playmaker.