I'd definately give hargreaves a good kick to the shins if I ever saw him on the streets anywhere in Canada. He could probably kick alot harder back so I'd probably run away quickly then and yell "don't come back" over my shoulder while I did that.
I said the "love of recess", not the practise of recess. come on, like you didnt joke in high school about how you wanted nap time and recess to be reinstated. Your other baseless personal attack doesn't warrant a response He makes his living running fast you know, I'd bet he'd catch you.
Meh, there's no money or self promotion in it, it's just an emotional decision. I'm confident he wouldn't pursue it.
Owen Hargreaves......man, where to start. I don't like the guy, to me he is just another glory hunter in the modern world of Professional Football. There are two types of players... 1)The loyal and passionate, take Ryan Giggs for example, the guy is a great player, he stayed true to his roots and playes for Wales. Are they a good team? not really. Will they ever make it to the world cup? not any time soon. Did that discourage Giggs from suiting up for his country? hell no. That's class. 2) Then there are those who are just looking to make a name fro themselves on the biggest stage of them all. Kind of like an audition for the big clubs of Europe, because as we all know one good Cup campaign and you are well on your way to a fast tracked career. This is where I'd place Owen Hargreaves, yeah he got cut from the Youth team, big deal. Obviously the coach was a dumbass, but to turn your back from those who nurtured your talents and sent you abroad for training because they knew they lacked the foundation to give you the proper instructions you deserve is just.....well unforgivable! So, Owen Hargreaves can go and play for England, get the money, fame and glory and in a few decades be forgotten amonst the great English footballers. And if I do happen to see him at BMO, I won't boo him or cheer for him, I'll just ignore his ass. He doesn't deserve my attention, whether its good or bad.
Iain Hume. Born: 1983, Edinburgh, Scotland. Signed for Tranmere Rovers of England in 1999, age 16. Time spent in Canada: 14 years (14 'non-formative' years, as you would say). Also the amount of time his family had been in Canada, apparently not enough to fully integrate in to Canadian society, though, so one would assume his household would fall into the category of “Scottish.” Iain Hume, pictured here during World Cup qualifying. He'd be the one with the Canadian Maple Leaf buzzed and dyed into his head. David Edgar. Born: 1987, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada. Signed for Newcastle United and moved to England at age 14. Time spent in Canada: 14 (again, non-formative) years. Raised by a British family who'd only been in North America for seven years, and, get this, a father who was a former English first division player! Sound like anyone we know? David Edgar, as described by his father following his game winning goal against Manchester United. "There's a lot of Canadians who go abroad and, all of a sudden, they want to become Dutch," said his father. "David stood up in front of the media (yesterday) and said `I'm a Canadian.'" So, two players, both of whom spent fewer years in Canada than Hargreaves, both of whom were raised by British parents (one of whom had actually stepped foot on his supposed homeland. Was even born there!) Yet, oddly, both of whom are proudly Canadian. What's the difference, then? Did Owen's parents subject their son to just a tad more BBC Canada? Maybe the Hargreaves household served Fish and Chips for dinner three days a week instead of the typical two, as was the norm in the Edgar and Hume homes. Or maybe - just maybe - the difference has nothing to do culture, nothing to do with upbringing, and nothing to do with how much each child loved recess during their high school years. Instead, maybe the difference comes down to integrity, principles, and a proper sense of loyalty and obligation. Maybe two of them are good, Canadian boys, while the other is a money hungry mercenary ********. Hume and Edgar are only two examples, but I use them because they most closely resemble Hargreaves’ profile. But I mean, come on. Born to immigrant parents, signed to a developmental contract at an early age and shipped off to Europe… This pretty much describes a pretty substantial chunk of the current Canadian national team pool. And how much do you want to bet that if we polled these players, they’d all attest to being proudly Canadian and to the pride they feel pulling on the red jersey? Or are you going to suggest right here in this thread that the majority of Canadian national team players are simply faking it… putting on a phony smile for the cameras while secretly wishing they were suiting up for the country of their parents, a country they actually feel something of an attachment to. Is that your position? Given that soccer is the most popular recreation sport in Canada and lays claim to more registered players than either Hockey or Baseball… Yes, I do. Assuming your right, that still leaves one question: what connection does he have to England? How does being born in a country and raised there ‘til the age of 15 leave no impact on a person, yet growing up in an “English household” (whatever the hell that is) does? Either the child was unresponsive to any process of acculturation at all, whether it be English or Canadian, or he received influence from both ends. It really is a zero-sum scenario.
so we are supposed to judge one person by another person's actions? come on, get real. You are also forgetting one huge factor, SKILL!!!! neither of those players you mentioned are of the skill level to get called up for England (Or Scotland for Hume). So really, playing for their respective homelands wasn't really a choice, but with England knocking on Hargreaves's door, it was a totally different matter. but they don't have that same drive to succeed as say, the Edgars or the Hargreaves who are brought up in homes where it may even be pushed on them, or as intrinsic. I don't think you understood my point at all. my family hasnt been back to Germany in 10 generations (SINCE 1753), but I still feel connected to Germany, and cheer for them at the WC and olympics, and speak some German. If I could play any sport for Germany, God damn it I would. If Germany got involved in a war, god damn it, I'd go over and fight for the bundeswehr. does that make me a whore? I never said it left NO impact, so stop twisting my words. as for acculturation, listen to his voice, his accent is more British than Canadian [youtube]xBhmh5bykSg[/youtube]
Taken from earlier in the thread. Everything you say is based on the theory that a) one cannot identify with their country prior to the age of 16, and b) 15 years is not enough for any immigrant family to properly assimilate. The cases of David Edgar and Iain prove your theory incorrect. And just in case you try and worm your way out by suggesting you were merely referring to Hargreaves' situation (as if you know him personally), we have this quote. Apparently your ‘facts’ are wrong, because Edgar and Hume's most certainly were, at least enough to know where their loyalties lie. Iain Hume has said in the past that Scotland was never an option for him. He explained how he left home at an early age (that being the age of two, not fifteen, just in case you were wondering), and had no connection to his country of birth and identified only with Canada. And the nature of David Edgar’s father’s comments makes it pretty clear what the family position on this issue is. Either way, it’s irrelevant. Whether or not they’d choose to take up the offer matters little. What matters is that they identify with Canada, hence proving your theory false.
I don't usually post, I like to lurk. But I really felt it necessary to point this one thing out in this post. Where, exactly, are the years spent in England? How can having parents from England substitute for actually living there? If OH had decided to play in Germany, I would understand a little more. I wouldn't like it, but I would understand. But England? Come on, really. He lived in Canada and then almost as long (as you said) in Germany... Where does England fit in? You can like him if you want, but to say he doesn't deserve any of the disliking (and even hatred if you like) you are, I'm sorry, mistaken.
How many other CANADIANS? He claims he's not Canadian, and since he plays for England, fine. He and his British family can go live in Britain.
I'd like for you to find a quote by him, and cite it that says he isn't Canadian, because so far it's just been BS spouted at Hargreaves, that cant even be backed up. wow, you like misconstruing my words don't you JasonTO? I did not say they cannot identify with their country before 16, I said that their national pride is not fully developed by 16, just with anything else in life, it keeps growing and building, and changing form. The cases of Edgar and Hume don't prove anything, except that a) they don't have the skill to play for England b) you like taking my words totally out of context and understand basic English meanings. c) They are a good addition to Canada. I never said you can't make a decision before your national pride is fully developed, in fact, I never said anything like that. and how do you know that they havent once pondered playing for a different team? people make wrong decisions sometimes, you think Hargreaves made one playing for England, for all we know ppl in England and Scotland think Hume and Edgar made the wrong decision. I also notice you've seemingly forgotten half of my post, why's that?
Best thing is how his accent changes over time...depending on where he's been training. Sounds quite german when interviewed during the Bundesliga season. And very, very english at the end of the World Cup, but less so now. Will probably sound Canadian again after a month in Calgary. I'm hoping he does't deliberately try and change his accent for his audience...that would be too much to take!
Hargreaves lived in Germany for what 10 years, right? Speaks German and even has German citizenship. He was eligiable to play for Germany, had he played there I'd have been more sympathetic. England, however, is just out of the blue. Even if he did grow up in an English family, its just bizzare to 'feel' more British having never lived in the damn place, than Canadian having spent his childhood and early teens here. The guy is just a glory hunter.
yet we have no way to back this up... for all we know, you're lying. we need proof of this.. whereas I have shown an interview of him with a clear british accent, where is the interview with him a German one... do you even know what a German accent sounds like?
that's utter nonsense. 15 years in a country now all of a sudden he has a british accent. my 30 year old cousin was born in italy came here when he was 17 and still has an italian accent. him pretending to have a british accent is nothing but him being a poser. a poser glory-hunting classless jerkoff who btw, is highly overrated.
not "all of a sudden" how do you know what he sounded like before? again, you have no interview, no sources, no record to back up your claims. I know of many people in the GTA who speak with a distinct accent despite them being born in Canada. we first learn language by emulating our parents and the people in our household, his was British, so of course a little bit of it rubbed off on him. now all of a sudden he's a whore because he has an accent
Good then. We agree. Hargreaves had no excuse to reject Canada on the grounds of identity. As the cases of Iain Hume and David Edgar illustrate, it’s entirely possible to develop an attachment to one’s country prior to the age of 16. Because Iain said so. So here we have it. A scenario growing up that is pretty much identical to Hargreaves. The funny thing is, both Hume and Edgar have a greater claim to British identity than Hargreaves ever will. Hume was born in Scotland and lived in England from the age of 16. Edgar’s made England his home since he was fifteen. Both feel loyalty to Canada above any ancestral ties. So again, I ask you… What’s constitutes the difference between Hargreaves and these two? It’s not skill, since it’s clear both would choose Canada. It’s not upbringing, since all three are identical. And it certainly isn’t claims of birth and residence, since the two Canadians have much more of a claim to Britain than Hargreaves does. So what is it? Nope. I’ve dealt with every one of your erroneous claims. You on the other hand have much to answer to. For example: - If prior to the age of 15, national identity struggles to take hold, then wouldn’t this nullify any British influence in his life? Why should this rule out one national identity but not the other? - If Hargreaves lived in Germany during his “formative years,” why does he not perceive himself as German? - Do you believe the bulk of first generation Canadian national team players are holding their nose while playing for Canada? - Once again, given the similarities in upbringing, what constitutes the difference between Hume/Edgar and Hargreaves? A clear British accent? He sounds like Michael Schumacher when he speaks. Here’s a sampling of interpretation when it comes to Hargreaves’ accent. Even one of his fans on Youtube commented on the Germanic nature of his speech: There are people who hear an English inflection in his voice as well. It appears there is no consensus on his accent. So the variations in what people hear when he speaks pretty well reflects keepergirl's opinion that he changes it to fit the circumstance. For example, you hear Hargreaves speaking in a 'clearly British accent.' Others - many others - hear an accent that only contains remnants of Canadian and Germanic speech. Is it a matter of interpretation, or is it a matter of what day of the week it is? Source? I’m from Toronto, I grew up and went to school with children of immigrants, and I don’t ever recall anyone with accents. I know someone who moved from England at the age of 13. He’s about as Cockney in personality as it gets, but he speaks perfect “Canadian.” It’s funny because he told me once that while he speaks in a Southern Ontario accent, he thinks in Cockney. Heh. He also makes it back to London on a regular basis, so there’s plenty opportunity for him to pick the accent back up. No. It just makes you deluded.
Wow, I think that post proves English isn't your first language, either that or it proves you don't know what the basic connotations and meaning of words are. Or for that matter what deductive reasoning is.
Citizen by convenience. Har... and handlers assessed the situation and made what they thought was the best decision for themselves. Indirectly Har Har will benefit Canada through his play and stature and this will encourage young Canadians to take up the sport. Other than that he made his decision with plans that do not include Canada. Because of my love of country I just cannot find myself to have a warm spot for people who use this land for their convenience. Har Har is better off in Europe and we are better off without people like him.
Hargreaves is English, just because he was born in another country it makes no difference. Should Terry Butcher have played for Singapore? John Barnes for Jamaica? Half the french team isn't french! Germanys best players were born in Poland! Loads of national teams have a Brazilian playing for them.
I may be a stupid mother*ucker, but I'm smart enough to know what a mercenary looks like and, although I acknowledge that they have ever right to do it, I can still think they are idiots with no self-respect. Have a nice day Pablo.