General discussion of how YA are perceived and valued (pulled from Pulisic thread)

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by adam tash, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    Let me simply ask you a few questions, and I'll end it here since this is a Pulisic thread and let's stay on topic.

    How many MLS standouts had a successful career in the Euro top leagues?
    How many MLSers had tried Euro and failed?
    How many MLS young hot shots had tried Euro and failed?
    How many MLSers had been so desired by the major Euro clubs that they are willing to pay Dembele or Mbappe prices?
     
  2. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    So your barometer is if you're not one of the 3000 - 500 best players in the world then 1000s are just as good as you and 1000s are better than you?

    In my time on BS - going back to 2001, I don't know that I've ever seen this level of Eurosnobbery.
     
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  3. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    MLSer flops in Europe = He sucks, that proves our league sucks.

    European flops in MLS = He didn't take the job seriously, it was his retirement gig.
     
  4. madvillain

    madvillain Member+

    Aug 28, 2011
    Club:
    Brooklyn Knights
    I went to the first came Deuce played in Seattle. It was a marketing coup, among other things. Usually the Sounders will close the top deck of the Clink -- but that day they opened it. We bought tickets on Stubhub (game was sold out) and we sat literally in the last row all the way at the top for $15 each.

    Deuce was a lot better back then and he was a notch above pretty much everybody else that night. He probably could have hung on in Europe for a season or two but the money was right and playing in front of the Sounders fans in the beautiful PNW isn't the worst way to wind down a career.
     
  5. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #30 jond, Sep 22, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
    While I agree somewhat, and Nagbe ain't beating out the likes of Gotze, Kagawa, Dahoud and Sahin at BVB, he certainly could play in a top league. His issue is at 27 there's no real upside, no resell value and probably not good enough that he's a must-buy for a club in a top league. Also while a great dribbler he has a poor IQ IMO. A mid table Bund or La Liga club with money to spend isn't going to look at Nagbe and say, he's what we need to add to improve. But could he see the pitch for a club like HSV? Yes.

    I think a line needs to be drawn between "could see mins in a top league" and "worth a transfer fee to improve a team in a top league". Two different discussions. I think Rowe could see the pitch in a top league. But like Nagbe for reasons mentioned, doesn't really make sense as an investment.

    BTW, we had someone here saying EPB is worth 20-30M or something like that. Zagadou was a standout talent in PSG's reserves last year, is 18, came to BVB as a CB and has been played out of position at LB but has done very well there for the current top Bund club and a UCL club. How much did BVB pay for his services?

    $0.

    Juve already made multiple bids for EPB. SKC turned them down. So in all this underrating of America talk, could easily make the argument that "Europe" placed more value on EPB than a current semi-starter for the top club in Germany, despite his club coach rating Ike Opara higher.
     
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  6. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #31 adam tash, Sep 22, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
    the concacaf league of nations and uefa league of nations and using fifa ratings to seed world cups are not a conspiracy to keep concacaf minor league? okay. i disagree. d

    fifa is now saying every friendly matters but no one is allowed to play euro teams except other euro teams....if thats not stacking the deck in uefa favor, nothing is.

    funny how as soon as usmnt beats italy in italy, germany in germany netherlands in netherlands.czech in czech for the first time ever and all within the span of a year or two...all of a sudden they come out with this idea that euro clubs will only play other euro clubs in friendlies from now on.....i'm sure tahts just a coincidence...and im sure the team that managed to do that has no players worth more than 3 million euro...except the ones taht are already basically european...pfft.....have you seen how much the players on all four of those teams that lost to the usmnt are supposedly wirth?? is there another team in the entire world that has beaten all of these euro countries in europe that has lower valued players???? i dont ahve to look it up i know theres not.

    doesnt have to be sinister to be a conspiracy. uefa has the field tilted in their favor in club and international soccer and they would be foolish to not do everything they can to protect their interests. (personally, i wish mls and ussoccer would start protecting american players the way england does brits and spain does spanish players etc....to me, its not question of talent but opportunity for american mlsers in 2017;...usa has become the country that protects their own the least relative to how good they are in international comp....is there a more highly regarded country in international soccer that porects their domestic players worse than MLS does americans?? no).

    player valuations are not objective. biases and agendas come into play in salaries and transfers. bigwigs in france, germany, italy and england have all recently gone out of their way to publically bash MLS andor US soccer in the press. its not a conspiracy its out in the open the contempt and disdain...and i suspect, deep down fear and apprehension...is plain to see.

    if player valuations were accurate, the EPL would win CL and europa league every year but they dont even come close to that. spending doesnt correlate to actual "worth" of players in an on-field sense.
     
  7. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Where did you see this? And no, that is NOT stacking the deck in UEFA's favor. That does them a huge disservice. Germany won't buy into this. They gain a lot from playing the likes of Brazil and Argentina and playing African teams prior to a World Cup.

    LOL...
     
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  8. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Juve did not make multiple bids. The 'journalist' did not have one quote or specific detail over 18 months of his nonsensical posts.
    Ultimately someone asked SKC and they said no bid was ever received. It was fake news to drive clicks. A journalist has sources and quotes. He had neither.
     
  9. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    It is an exaggeration that there will be none, but the UEFA Nations League will push almost all non-inter-UEFA matches out (and more so for the better nations). Without a doubt it will make the problem of inability to measure between UEFA and other confederations worse. But already friendlies don't count much so it wasn't a major way for ranking points to make their way out of UEFA. I think it is a money grab and not a plan to steal ranking points, that was just a pleasant side effect. UEFA, like all confederations, is not looking out for world football, it is looking after itself.
     
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  10. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From SKC's own website.

    Juventus keep upping their offers for Sporting Kansas City's Erik Palmer-Brown, but the club still have no plans to sell the young center back to the storied Italian side.

    They have come back to us twice now – and it has gone up, obviously,” Vermes said. “Hopefully, they're not coming back with the same offer. So it's gone up each time, but it's just not something that we're willing to entertain. I've said this before and I'll say it again. We haven't had the intention to sell the player.

    “We see the potential he has with our club,” Vermes said. “He's been with us since he was 11 years old, and he's been developed so far by us. In doing that, I think he has incredible potential. So at the moment, we've declined all offers.”

    Vermes' words are fake news?
     
  11. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Where is the link.
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Obviously they didn't up the numbers enough.

    That they came with an offer and went higher twice doesn't mean any of the offers was good.
     
  13. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  14. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but if Juve only offered a taco, it'd be more than KC ultimately received for him.
     
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  15. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    KenC repped this.
  16. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    This is the new youth yanks abroad thread.
     
  17. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I don't think NT managers care about rankings nearly as much as playing styles that they aren't used too. I can't see how this will fly. Being in pot 1 or pot 2 won't make a difference if you have not played vs logical opponents from other continents. The Euro teams in pots 3 and 4 aren't contenders to begin with. This whole "ranking" argument is BS in my own little brain. From a strictly financial side, Germany playing Brazil or Nigeria will get a lot more revenue than Germany playing Slovenia or Wales. In the end, most of these friendlies are played in Europe anyway so revenue isn't going to change.

    Anyone have a link on this?
     
  18. You forgot me:DFeyenoord-Dutch-Euro-snob plaging you since I came in:p
     
  19. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY

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