Wing players: 1. Garrincha (Brazil) [1955 - 1965] 2. Matthews (England) [1945 - 1955] 3. Best (Northern Ireland) [1965 - 1975] 4. Hamrin (Sweden) [1955 - 1965] 5. Gento (Spain) [1955 - 1965] 6. Rummenigge (West Germany) [1975 - 1985] 7. Czibor (Hungary) [1950 - 1960] 8. Riva (Italy) [1965 - 1975] 9. Finney (England) [1950 - 1960] 10. Ghiggia (Uruguay) [1945 - 1955] All of Gento (b. 1933) his Ballon d'Or rankings were between 1957 and 1962. He had a long and respectable career but this is his window I feel. Hamrin won his biggest team trophies after his prime, but other than that it is an easy choice (when he was a top player). Other remotely doubtful cases were Finney and Ghiggia but in the remaining instances they're quite straightforward choices I was tempted to say. Finney his age (born 1922) would suggest 1945 - 1955 but probably 1950 - 1960 is the right choice and the right set of contemporaries. Many of his best England performances came shortly after the war (when it was also a strong team around ~1947-1948).
My focus is on Belgium currently so I am pleased to see less renowned players like Georges Heylens and Laurent Verbiest in a 1984 French All-Time list but I am puzzled at the same time that the two most famous Belgian players were left out, Paul van Himst and Wilfried van Moer!
I remember from looking through all the names to work out how many players from each country were named, that I think Van Moer might be in the long list of midfielders (halves) but a typo means his name appears as Van Moel. I guess Danny Blanchflower is listed as C.Blanchflower similarly. Van Himst was in the long list of centre-forwards anyway. I might have said Ceulemans not being there was surprising but probably it's not so much really given the tendency not to pick a lot of current players (I think I noticed Vercauteren was there though, unless it was just that he contributed his input himself like Piantoni etc - if Vercauteren wasn't listed I'll make a post to correct myself!). That tendency is probably even more evident for Platini's all-time top 50 that he picked in early 1986 I see (Raute posted today) - Van Himst did squeeze into that one I noticed too; I don't think anyone younger than Kempes was included IIRC.
Corrected Marius Tresor and placed him into 1970 - 1980. Goalkeepers: 1. Yashin (Soviet Union) [1955 - 1965] 2. Maier (West Germany) [1970 - 1980] 3. Grosics (Hungary) [1950 - 1960] 4. Beara (Yugoslavia) [1950 - 1960] 4. Gilmar (Brazil) [1955 - 1965] 6. Mazurkiewicz (Uruguay) [1965 - 1975] 7. Banks (England) [1960 - 1970] 8. Zeman (Austria) [1950 - 1960] 9. Schumacher (West Germany) [1975 - 1985] 10. Zoff (Italy) [1970 - 1980] Full-backs: 1. Nilton Santos (Brazil) [1955 - 1965] 2. Facchetti (Italy) [1965 - 1975] 3. Breitner (West Germany) [1970 - 1980] 4. Carlos Alberto (Brazil) [1965 - 1975] 5. Bossis (France) [1975 - 1985] 6. Djalma Santos (Brazil) [1955 - 1965] 6. Jusufi (Yugoslavia) [1960 - 1970] 8. Cabrini (Italy) [1975 - 1985] 9. Marzolini (Argentina) [1960 - 1970] 10. Heylens (Belgium) [1965 - 1975] Central defenders: 1. Beckenbauer (West Germany) [1965 - 1975] 2. Parola (Italy) [1945 - 1955] 3. Happel (Austria) [1945 - 1955] 4. Moore (England) [1960 - 1970] 5. Gustavsson (Sweden) [1950 - 1960] 6. Maldini (Italy) [1955 - 1965] 7. Verbiest (Belgium) [1960 - 1970] 8. Tresor (France) [1970 - 1980] 8. Jonquet (France) [1950 - 1960] 10. Germano (Portugal) [1955 - 1965] Halves: 1. Boszik (Hungary) [1945 - 1955] 2. Didi (Brazil) [1950 - 1960] 3. Ocwirk (Austria) [1950 - 1960] 4. Walter (West Germany) [1950 - 1960] 5. Liedholm (Sweden) [1950 - 1960] 6. Labruna (Argentina) [1945 - 1955] 7. Hanappi (Austria) [1950 - 1960] 8. Nestor Rossi (Argentina) [1945 - 1955] 9. Cajkowski (Yugoslavia) [1945 - 1955] 10. Coluna (Portugal) [1960 - 1970] 10. Van Hanegem (Netherlands) [1965 - 1975] 'Offensive midfielders': 1. Pelé (Brazil) [1960 - 1970] 2. Puskas (Hungary) [1950 - 1960] 3. Schiaffino (Uruguay) [1950 - 1960] 4. Platini (France) [1975 - 1985] 5. Charlton (England) [1960 - 1970] 6. Kopa (France) [1950 - 1960] 7. Sandro Mazzola (Italy) [1965 - 1975] 8. Sekularac (Yugoslavia) [1955 - 1965] 9. Sivori (Argentina) [1955 - 1965] 10. Albert (Hungary) [1960 - 1970] 10. Bobek (Yugoslavia) [1945 - 1955] Wing players: 1. Garrincha (Brazil) [1955 - 1965] 2. Matthews (England) [1945 - 1955] 3. Best (Northern Ireland) [1965 - 1975] 4. Hamrin (Sweden) [1955 - 1965] 5. Gento (Spain) [1955 - 1965] 6. Rummenigge (West Germany) [1975 - 1985] 7. Czibor (Hungary) [1950 - 1960] 8. Riva (Italy) [1965 - 1975] 9. Finney (England) [1950 - 1960] 10. Ghiggia (Uruguay) [1945 - 1955] Center forwards: 1. Di Stefano (Argentina) [1950 - 1960] 2. Cruijff (Netherlands) [1965 - 1975] 3. Muller (West Germany) [1965 - 1975] 4. Eusebio (Portugal) [1960 - 1970] 5. Kocsis (Hungary) [1950 - 1960] 6. Nordahl (Sweden) [1945 - 1955] 7. Fontaine (France) [1950 - 1960] 8. Hidegkuti (Hungary) [1945 - 1955] 9. John Charles (Wales) [1950 - 1960] 9. Pedernera (Argentina) [1945 - 1955] 10. Mermans (Belgium) [1945 - 1955] Input on this is again welcome. The most borderline case is Cruijff since he was also widely perceived - and rated - as MVP of his league between 1977 and 1980 (against some very good players). However, he's also widely associated with the babyboomers and the spirit of the 1960s, more or less. The 1960s as an era and cultural timeframe didn't really end on 31 December 1969 but somewhere between 1973 and 1975. The other names are fairly straightforward picks, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'll make an overview of this later; players by era, by year of birth and by month of birth (something that became more interesting than I thought since I became more aware of how solid 'RAE' is as a background mechanism).
Checking all the league match reports in Mundo Deportivo I counted 12 direct assists for Kopa and 7 for Di Stefano, but in many goals they only mention the scorer, so it could be more. Going by these reports, Kopa gets praised particularly much twice: - Game 1: Madrid 3 Osasuna 0 - One brilliant assist and a goal by Kopa. - Game 5: Madrid 3 Barcelona 0 - Outstanding Di Stefano but more brilliant Kopa with two assists and a goal. And he is mentioned among the best players of the team (or the best forwards of the team) 15 times total, 5 of those times seemingly better than Di Stefano (the two mentioned above plus three other times Kopa is mentioned among the best of the team and Di Stefano is not). On the other hand, Di Stefano is particularly praised five times: - Game 10: Madrid 6 Bilbao 0 - Praised as the director of the team highlighting his defensive contribution (2 assists for Di Stefano and two for Kopa) - Game 20: Barcelona 0 Madrid 2 - Brilliant as conductor, he was everywhere. Served one of the goals. - Game 23 Real Sociedad 2 Madrid 2 - Di Stefano by far the best. Magnificent flashes of him and was the main driver of the attack. - Game 25 Bilbao 0 Madrid 2 - Deemed the direct maker of Real Madrid' victory showcasing exceptional physical condition and individual class both up front and joining the defensive efforts when necessary. - Game 27 Espanyol 2 Madrid 4 - Di Stefano everywhere and the orchestrator. The whole team plays "well thought" football around the fantastic axis that is Di Stefano. Santamaria and Di Stefano deemed the key players in the current Real Madrid team. He gets mentioned as one of the best players or forwards of the team 19 times, 8 of those times apparently regarded above Kopa (the five mentioned above and three more Kopa does not get mentioned, excluding the games he did not play) About "end product", aka stats, always a tricky thing: Game 26 Real Madrid 5 Valladolid 3 - Di Stefano scores a hat-trick and assists Gento in his goal, but Di Stefano is not mentioned among the outstanding players of the team. Game 25 mentioned above, both goals came from remarkable assists by Kopa, but the great praise was for Di Stefano, in this case with invisible "end product"/stats as Rial and Marsal were the scorers, to the point that he is called the "direct maker" of the victory. Additionally, Di Stefano is also deemed the best forward of the team in the EC final against Milan (though the MotM seems to have been Soldan, the keeper of the Italian side): key man, battler, orchestrator of the attacks and helpful of his defensive line when under pressure. Santamaria also brilliant in this game. All this suggests Di Stefano > Kopa for Real Madrid in 1957-58, both in league and EC. At least from the point of view of Mundo Deportivo.
If there are no more amendments then it would look something like this: 1945 - 1955: 13 players. 1950 - 1960: 19 players. 1955 - 1965: 11 players. 1960 - 1970: 10 players. 1965 - 1975: 11 players. 1970 - 1980: 4 players. 1975 - 1985: 5 players. Will look at years and months later. See this link below - esp. the first one. http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/does-talent-exist-in-football.2023378/page-7#post-32798897 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/does-talent-exist-in-football.2023378/page-8#post-32805904 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/does-talent-exist-in-football.2023378/page-7#post-32804338 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/does-talent-exist-in-football.2023378/page-7#post-32799616
Maybe looking at Platini's top 50 the same way would be interesting, but probably he was really considering whole career and omitting younger players by default. 1950-1960 is 24-34 years before 1984, so like 1982-1992 would be considered now I suppose. Maybe indeed Tom Finney for example could be moved earlier as you suggested (but hard to call indeed) but that period does have a clear gap to others anyway, as you've done a good and fair job allocating players I think.
I had many names already in a file: 1928, 13 January: Bengt Gustavsson 1950, 15 January: Marius Tresor 1942, 25 January: Eusebio 1915, 1 February: Stanley Matthews 1926, 4 February: Gyula Grosics 1932, 5 February: Cesare Maldini 1945, 14 February: Ladislao Mazurkiewicz 1922, 16 February: Jef Mermans 1929, 16 February: Gerhard Hanappi 1944, 20 February: Wim van Hanegem 1929, 27 February: Djalma Santos 1942: 28 February: Dino Zoff 1944, 28 February: Sepp Maier 1922, 3 March: Nandor Hidegkuti 1954, 6 March: Harald Schumacher 1926, 7 March: Ernst Ocwirk 1927, 1 April: Ferenc Puskas 1922, 5 April: Tom Finney 1941, 12 April: Bobby Moore 1939, 16 April: Laurent Verbiest 1947, 25 April: Johan Cruijff 1927, 1 May: Walter Zeman 1925, 3 May: Robert Jonquet 1925, 10 May: Nestor Rossi 1925, 16 May: Nilton Santos 1946, 22 May: George Best 1955, 21 June: Michel Platini 1955, 26 June: Maxime Bossis 1926, 4 July: Alfredo di Stefano 1944, 17 July: Carlos Alberto 1942, 18 July: Giacinto Facchetti 1925, 28 July: Juan Schiaffino 1935, 6 August: Mario Coluna 1941, 8 August: Georges Heylens 1933, 18 August: Just Fontaine 1930, 22 August: Gilmar 1929, 23 August: Zoltan Czibor 1928, 26 August: Vladimir Beara 1942, 5 September: Paul Breitner 1945, 11 September: Franz Beckenbauer 1941, 15 September: Florian Albert 1921, 20 September: Carlo Parola 1929, 21 September: Sandor Kocsis 1955, 25 September: Karl Heinz Rummenigge 1918, 28 September: Angel Labruna 1935, 2 October: Omar Sivori 1940, 4 October: Silvio Marzolini 1920, 8 October: Nils Liedholm 1928, 8 October: Didi 1957, 8 October: Antonio Cabrini 1937, 11 October: Bobby Charlton 1931, 13 October: Raymond Kopa 1921, 19 October: Gunnar Nordahl 1933, 21 October: Paco Gento 1929, 22 October: Lev Yashin 1940, 23 October: Pelé 1933, 28 October: Garrincha 1920, 31 October: Fritz Walter 1945, 3 November: Gerd Muller 1944, 7 November: Gigi Riva 1942, 8 November: Sandro Mazzola 1918, 15 November: Adolfo Pedernera 1934, 19 November: Kurt Hamrin 1923, 24 November: Zlatko Cajkowski 1925, 28 November: Jozsef Bozsik 1925, 29 November: Ernst Happel 1937, 30 November: Dragoslav Sekularac 1923, 3 December: Stjepan Bobek 1939, 8 December: Fahrudin Jusufi 1926, 22 December: Alcides Ghiggia 1932, 23 December: Germano 1931, 27 December: John Charles 1937, 30 December: Gordon Banks First quarter: 16 names (January - March) Second quarter: 12 names (April - June) Third quarter: 17 names (July - September) Fourth quarter: 28 names (October - December) Jan 3; Feb 10; Mar 3; Apr 5; May 5; Jun 2; Jul 4; Aug 6; Sep 7; Oct 13; Nov 9; Dec 6 Something to look out for is the distinction between East and West Europe, as well as South America. Since those continents had different cut-off days (West Europe used commonly August, September or October). Between the second half of April and the end of July - 3.5 months - there is only Cruijff, Zeman, Jonquet, Best, Platini, Bossis and Facchetti as Europeans. Three of these seven are French and one Italian (that never had a consistent and uniform cut-off date, hence many of their greatest names are nicely spread across the months; also e.g. Rivera, Paolo Maldini, Baresi, Baggio who aren't included here) The oldest player included is Stanley Matthews (1915), the youngest Cabrini (1957). October is by far the most represented month. Other greats born in October: Diego Maradona, George Weah, Zizinho, Marco van Basten, Falcao (the Brazilian), Tommy Lawton - and Gerd Muller is just outside (3 November).
Yes, seen in that way: 1915 - 1919: 3 players 1920 - 1924: 9 players 1925 - 1929: 20 players 1930 - 1934: 9 players 1935 - 1939: 7 players 1940 - 1944: 14 players 1945 - 1949: 5 players 1950 - 1954: 2 players 1955 - 1959: 4 players Especially 1940 - 1944 is the odd one out (from a biological perspective) since we know that war and famine are not conducive to children development and growth. Next to that many babies died of course. This is also true for athletically gifted teenagers and adolescents (born ~ 1928 - 1933) who were sent to war. Read this to see what I mean: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944–45#Legacy From a talent pool and practitioners perspective (I'll not make cheap jokes about everyone, every potential late blossomer, being active instead of sitting on the couch...) 1940 - 1944 wouldn't be at the forefront necessarily. The 'best' year to be born is 1925 (6 players; 1929 has five players), the best month October.
This is very interesting. I've been doing a little exercise myself recently trying to look at this best players by year of birth. I agree on the difficulty of being born in 1940-1944 given the privations of war but also 1925-1929 is an interesting one as well. Badly impacted by the great depression (even if it wasn't necessarily as severe in parts of Europe as it was in America) it would have had a marked impact on food and nutrition in a key developmental time. Also significant as the last group who would have been able to have been called up to war. In addition the late teens are often seen as vital in terms of progress as a player and that would have had a major effect on those years.
Yeah, I suppose any 'bias' or 'familiarity bonus' can be a factor (in deciding which players get listed among the best) - if I make an attempt now (despite gaining knowledge and being interested in the former greats very much currently, it'd still be 'retrospective' for players active before the 80's and to an extent for those active in the 80's itself) then maybe that 1982-1992 window would indeed contain a lot of names - maybe I'd be aruguably largely 'right' or not far off, but maybe these selections also fit that description but still have a probably unintended bias to certain periods. Just like with Platini's list where maybe he added a few 'old' greats he knew of and maybe even saw some clips of like Stabile and Andrade, but didn't name anyone younger than Kempes and meanwhile many from his childhood period (again that can be 'right;' or at least understandable). Yes, I know what you mean about the war period, although maybe in the aftermath youngsters could be inspired to succeed and despite still not a luxury lifestyle also enjoy peacetime? Maybe applies to already active players too? The only other connection between birth dates apart from school years I can think of would be star signs and associated traits. Are most of the October players Libra or a good number of Scorpio too? Maybe a stretch to think about but maybe for someone like Cruyff being a 'youngster' within his year could have stood him in good stead for being the same at Ajax? Maybe such players with extreme talent push themselves to become the best they can among older peers (Best, Platini too) or maybe they take confidence from dribbling around older friends (but then psychologically do kids actually feel younger than those in the same school year necessarily, even when they can be by 10 months maybe?)?
Using Platini's top 50 from just two years after this list by France Football: http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...list-august-1984.2038066/page-2#post-35024309 If the categories had been specified a bit differently, some of the 'extras' might have moved to a different type.
43 of the 73 players nominated featured significantly in the 1950s. This is not surprising. At the end of the twentieth century there was a flurry of all-time/twentieth century lists. A third of IFFHS's 50 top players came from the 1950s. The same proportion from the same decade featured in Guerin Sportivo's Top 50 and in World Soccer's Top 100. Venerdi (La Reppublica) included 29 of their 100 from the 1950s; Placar 23%. In 2000 David Lacey, the Guardian's chief football writer for the past 30 years, selected his England XI of the twentieth century. Every single player he chose had appeared in the 1950s. (Four went on to win the World Cup the following decade.) As suggested elsewhere on this thread, year of birth may be a factor. There is also the question of perception. The surge in attendances at sporting events during the late 1940s and 1950s produced a different kind of journalism. In football there was an absence of nostalgia and a focus on players of the day who quickly became heroes. The nostalgia came later, when the 1950s became a golden age. Matthews and Finney won one FA Cup between them and made no significant contribution in international tournaments. But their reputations remain unaffected. Finney's decision to spend his entire career at Preston has been portrayed as admirable loyalty. When forty years later Matt Le Tissier chose to stay at Southampton he was accused of lack of ambition. The reluctance at the time to look back undoubtedly helped the footballers of this generation. It is very difficult to imagine a GOAT discussion in 1950. Who would be the candidates? Matthews? Only halfway through his career. Moreno? Hardly known outside Latin America. What about 1940? Sindelar? JL Andrade? But by 1953 Puskas enters the equation and is joined four years later by Di Stefano. Then shortly afterwards by Pele. And there (with apologies to Maradona fans) the debate ends.
I see your ideas and I get that you look fondly back to 1982 - 1992. The period between 1978 and 1982 is often looked back in less happy terms, and this coincided with troubling times in the European economy (slightly later also in middle and south america with debt crises). Nowadays teams are more or less insensitive to the overall economy, although below the very top (the top 15, top 20) some massive hits have taken place in the wake of 2008, with stagnant incomes. Do you get however the ravaging effects of war? Over here 80% of the Jews died, in large part due to an ideologically fanatic SS government instead of a military administration. That are many potential footballers. https://www.quora.com/Why-did-such-...tal-Jewish-population-perish-in-the-Holocaust George Best and Platini did not stand out as teenagers (compared to their matured form; compared to other teenagers in history), which completely matches with the RAE theory. Johan Cruijff remains an odd case in the sense that he's praised for so many other things (even during his playing days - I've provided proof from 1967 Miroir Football, 1969 Charles Buchan, the 1974WC technical report etc.). Although not every journalist is fully aware of his contribution to 'positional play' for example and there remain many skeptic people who claim Di Stefano, Puskas (Eric Batty) or Franz Beckenbauer were the original total footballer and genius brains (Dassler friend Brian Glanville, who says this at least twice a year). On the other side though there are journalists as Tim Vickery - covering and a fan of the South American game - who tell on Brazilian television that he's greater/better than Pelé. Just as 'New Hollywood' applied 'Nouvelle Vague' on a larger scale to a bigger audience and with more possibilities, so mirrors Cruijff his trajectory that development. In the recent Guardiola book (by Perarnau) there's a bit about the hoped continuity and passing on to next generations - something that is possible to built at larger clubs, larger cultures and larger countries but has become impossible at Ajax/Netherlands (at times deliberately sabotaged such as in 1973, 1995 but many biased journalists and football fans don't want to know and are even complicit). Either way, you get the point probably although the RAE theory also holds for scholars and even Nobel prize winners (for sciences - not literature, peace or the pseudo-prize for economics). Meaning: it also holds for some cognitive exercises and abilities. Can you say which footballers were somewhat outstanding as a teenager in your eyes? Charlton is from October. Pelé is from October. Maradona is from October. Ronaldo Luis is from September (when the cut off day was 1 September for the youth teams).
Yes, sorry, I was just thinking of the reasoning behind some great players emerging after the war etc but it does seem surprising if any such reasons could outweigh disadvantages. I thought of Gianni Rivera (September), Michael Owen (December, towards the middle of English school year but maybe only 3 months younger than oldest colleagues), Enzo Scifo (February which I suppose is a contra case maybe) and Michael Laudrup (June - is that young within Danish system for his year or not?).
On Michael Owen. "In 2009, professional English youth academies (aged 16-20 years) were grossly over-represented by players with birthdates in a three month period. 57% of youngsters were born in September, November or December whilst only 14% celebrated their birthday in June, July or August." It's in line with the theory that those are also less likely to stand out as teenager (if they make it). True, Enzo Scifo is most likely a contra case. To a lesser extent Cruijff had a couple big scalps (big goals) before the age of 20 as well (relative to all 'strong opponents' played; Hungary, Liverpool etc.). Interesting attempt. I'd say Keegan 1975 - 1985, Rivelino 1970 - 1980, Kubala maybe 1945 - 1955 due to his disease (b. 1927), Kempes 1975 - 1985 (b. 1954).
Yes, I can understand those calls, and nearly went that way with Keegan and Kempes certainly (still using a ? though), while I was most doubtful about the categorisation of Rensenbrink (maybe France Football putting him among wingers, but also their choice of categories, swayed me) and Gerson. If anything it seems I errr'd on the side of going early then. I'm not sure whether you did the opposite when in doubt overall - Finney or Sandro Mazzola who is a difficult case to call ideally I suppose in terms of fitting into a period, maybe like Scifo himself would be 20 years later (arguable the prime came early in career, though in Scifo's case it might be arguable it came after 1990 too even. I wonder which performances influenced Platini the most re: Mazzola (with Rivera one of the missing names from his list I guess in terms of potentially expected ones).
Scifo is 1985 - 1995 imho. Although it's difficult because his best Belgian league season came before this and his best French league season after this. Can you indicate what you gain if Keegan is put 1970 - 1980 rather than 1975 - 1985? Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's pretty clear. You 'gain' more high profile years with 1975 - 1985. Mazzola became a truly carrying player of Inter in 1964-65. I'd say he decisively fits into 1965 - 1975. In 1971 he became 2nd in the Ballon d'Or, although he had a weaker year in the league and internationally (for national team and in UEFA competitions). Just as the winner it was in part for his overall career to date. In case you're interested, I found the Vickery thing back (which was a handful of days after his passing). https://audioboom.com/posts/4351970-world-football-phone-in (at 7:15 and maybe also later in the episode but don't know and/or can't remember) Here on Brazil TV Anyway, I think you agree/understand the idea of source of the fame (despite honest and imho dishonest skepticism), even though RAE also exists at some purely cognitive pursuits (Nobel prizes for science).
Nothing concrete for Keegan really, but maybe I had in mind that more of his Liverpool years could be added within 1970-1980 and that 1985 itself is a bit late. But his stand-out Southampton year alone perhaps over-rides that even. Maybe with Mazzola, his very good 1964 EC Final performance was fresh in my mind, having made the video of course not so long ago (maybe even the tone of the commentators voice, using his nickname etc too lol! which suggests perhaps a key role was appreciated in the previous season, and he did play for Italy in 1963 and using your method then 64/65 is also before the 65-75 period I suppose. I know he was a good deeper lying player, as shown well by his video from the 1974 WC that is on Youtube too, in his later years though. I'll look at that Vickery link then and it is interesting to know he thinks that way yeah, and for the date of birth thing I was just throwing some thoughts around before including about why big exceptions might exist even if the correlation was big and genuine - it's not something I'm very versed in in general ofc but I understand the idea behind what you are saying and that the data supports it. The star sign idea was a bit of a stretch as everyone still has individual abilities and traits in personality, but I wondered whether if people tended to be more extroverted or more dedicated or something under a certain sign whether more players or top players would come from that sign...possibly.
That's mean they were conceived on January 1925. What happened that month? It must have occurred a very very exciting game those days
Yes it is not an iron law or so (in the sense that no counter examples are possible) but it is a major tendency. I certainly appreciate you mentioning those counter examples. Examples fitting within the theory would be Baggio, Matthaus, Rivaldo (for him the cut off day was September; for Romario it was January I'm 100% sure), Best, Zidane, Butragueno, Bergkamp and Rensenbrink. Of course despite this 'not outstanding as teenager' e.g. Zidane, Bergkamp are still #1 or #2 in Ballon d'Or for their generation/cohort. http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/does-talent-exist-in-football.2023378/page-7#post-32804338 I checked (yesterday) Keegan again briefly and I can now see the idea of putting him in 1970 - 1980. He's also thought of a late blossomer by works of the time (born 14 February 1951). The 1977 Hamlyn book of International Soccer says: "Keegan is an example of a player who can rise from the most inauspicious beginnings to world class." Contributors were Archer, Arnold, Davis, Gardner and Tyler. His best seasons are 1975-76, 1976-77, 1978-79, the first half of 1979-80, second half of 1980-81, 1981-82. Therefore I thought 1975 - 1985 personally although after 1982 there's only the Second Division and no cup performances of note. So you miss three seasons there. For the national team there's also 1974-75, but before that nothing. For Liverpool a few/handful good performances in Europe and domestically between the second half of 1972-73 and 1974-75 (two goals against Monchengladbach for example). Then in 1976 he catapulted to being nominated for the PFA honors, and listed for Ballon d'Or etc. The last time he got listed was 1979. Sorry if this has become a bit chaotic but still wondering where he fits best yes. 1970 - 1980 cuts off one-and-a-half of his best years while 1975 - 1985 cuts off two-and-half solid seasons. For the national team it doesn't matter much however (virtually no qualitative difference between 1970 - 1980 or 1975 - 1985).
I'm not sure there'd be a 'wrong' choice with Keegan. I know he was said to have played well at Newcastle and been fondly remembered by the fans (maybe even some partial reason behind taking him as a manager?). But I suppose Ballon d'Or votes don't always include some players considered very good or even world class - But I think it's right that his level did reach it's peak with his fame and accolades even though his partnership with Toshack had been a famous one.
Another counter case is Raul Gonzalez I suppose (27 June 1977). Someone with a bit of a contested legacy too. http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...-super-overrated.2037493/page-7#post-34948300 But he's a good to excellent counter case too. In terms of bracketing players, this is a somewhat useful list as well (a 'Super Onze d'Or' among all former Onze d'Or winners). https://footballyesterdayandtoday.blogspot.com/2015/12/onze-dor-1995.html I'm not meaning the exact percentages as such.
Yes, interesting to see that and also the percentages for 1995 itself (both with a French perspective ofc, and maybe limited by only voting for a winner I guess, but still insightful).
It's maybe interesting to note that Bobby Charlton wrote February 1970 a column for Goal magazine (later merged with Shoot) with as title Bobby Charlton's Diary "Paul Van Himst is one of the greatest". Of his playing days and era he meant. Charlton is of 11 October 1937, Van Himst of 2 October 1943 however. He didn't say that of many players at the time. Since it is often recalled how Charlton rates Duncan Edwards or that he once included Marzolini in his all-time XI, this can be mentioned too. I had already the gut feeling that he'd fit well for an 'HM' for 1960 - 1970.