Fixing Champions League, and More

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions League' started by gremio1903, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. gremio1903

    gremio1903 Member+

    Aug 10, 2011
    Uruguaiana, RS (BRA) [last: Rockville, MD]
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    I have this Quixotesque impulse to organize sport leagues and tournaments. I never actually write to someone that actually works with it, but I can't help myself. It just comes naturally to me. I see a league, and soon I am looking its history, how it has developed, its current context. Then, ideas on how to improve it simply keep popping on my mind. This week, for instance, it has happened with the Concacaf Champions' League.

    Concacaf has changed its Champions' League, and I think they could have made it better – especially with the transition, since teams from USA and Canada that had their spot secured can be left out of the competition.

    Concachampions has now two different tournaments: one, preliminary, from August to October; and, other, the Champions' League proper, from February to May. Both tournaments have 16 teams each and are played in series of knockout rounds. The champion of the preliminary tournament qualifies to the main competition, joining 15 others who qualify directly (4 MEX, 4 USA, 1 CAN, 1 CFU, 1 CRC, 1 HON, 1 PAN, 1 ELS, 1 GUA).

    Instead of making a new one from scratch, I decided to try improve upon the new system as Concacaf has established. Hence, there would be a qualifying stage with 4 home-and-away knockout rounds followed by a final stage also with 4 home-and-away knockout rounds.

    Differently from Concacaf's actual competition, however, no team would qualify directly to the final stage. This is how I envision the Concachampions:

    I. Qualifiers (August to October)

    a. First Qualifiers (2 rounds) - 48 teams divided in three zones
    Central Zone: 16 MEX;
    North Zone: 13 USA, 3 CAN;
    South Zone: 3 CFU, 3 CRC, 2 HON, 2 PAN, 2 GUA, 2 ELS, 1 NCA, 1 BLZ.

    Teams would be divided in pools of 4 teams each within their zones. Pools would have a semifinal round and a final round. The 12 pool champions would qualify to the main tournament. The 12 runners-up would compete in the Second Qualifiers.

    b. Second Qualifiers (2 rounds) - 12 teams
    Teams would be divided in 4 pools of 3 teams (from different zones) each.

    Once again, pools would have a semifinal round and a final round. The best ranked team from each zone, plus the best ranked team among the remaining competitors would be seeded, and would have a bye in the semifinal.

    The 4 pool champions would qualify to the main tournament.

    II. Champions' League (February to May)

    Finals (4 rounds) - 16 teams

    The Finals would be exactly how Concacaf has proposed.

    --

    In adition to those changes, Concacaf's announced preliminary tournament could become its counterpart of Copa Sudamericana or of Europa League. Such a tournament would run like this:


    I. Qualifiers (August to October)

    a. First Qualifiers (1 round) - 40 teams divided in three zones

    Participating teams: 3 CFU, 2 CRC, 2 HON, 2 PAN, 2 GUA, 2 ELS, 1 NCA, 1 BLZ, 1 CAN, 24 eliminated in Concachampions' first round of Qualifiers;

    Central Zone: 8 teams (MEX);
    North Zone: 10 teams (9 USA/CAN, 1 UNCAF or CFU);
    South Zone: 22 teams (UNCAF/CFU).

    Home-and-away series, within the zones (except one North v South series); winners advancing to the Second Qualifiers.

    b. Second Qualifiers (2 rounds) - 32 teams divided in three zones
    Participating teams: 20 First Round winners; 12 eliminated in Concachampions' second round of Qualifiers.

    Teams divided in 8 pools of 4 teams each:

    Central Zone: 2 pools, 8 teams (MEX);
    North Zone: 2 pools, 8 teams (USA/CAN);
    South Zone: 4 pools, 16 teams (UNCAF/CFU; eventually, 1 USA or CAN).

    First round (semifinals) and second round (finals) in home-and-away series. The 8 pool champions advance to the Final Stage (or "Liga Concacaf").

    II. "Liga Concacaf" (February to May)

    Finals (4 rounds) - 16 teams

    Participating teams: 8 Liga's Qualifiers winners; 8 eliminated in Concachampions' Second Qualifiers.

    The Finals would be exactly like Concachampions.
     
  2. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    Are you seriously proposing 16 teams from Mexico and 13 from the Usa? How does that improve a champions league? If anything that dilutes it beyond belief. A 16th place team should only get into a champions league if they win a cup of some kind not get a birth to a champions league for being so mediocre. The ccl would basically just turn into another liga mx that would increase ccls cost and I don't see how it would be more interesting
     
    gremio1903 repped this.
  3. gremio1903

    gremio1903 Member+

    Aug 10, 2011
    Uruguaiana, RS (BRA) [last: Rockville, MD]
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Calm down. That is for the Qualifiers only...

    Those 16 Mexicam teams would play in the Central Zone for FOUR spots in the Champions League proper. The same four spots Mexico already has in CCL under Concacaf's new tournament. Nothing really changes much for them, but the way to get there. The 16th-spot team would need to win one of the qualifying pools to get into CCL, so there is your "cup of some kind." My proposal respects it.

    The Central Zone of the First Qualifiers would, indeed, look like Liga MX. However, there would be other two zones (North/South), and the Second Qualifiers; not to mention the CCL proper. Besides, Mexican teams already dominate CCL, putting half of the teams in the quarterfinals almost every year.

    How on earth would more REGIONAL play INCREASE costs?

    More interesting than what? The comparison should be made with CCL's new format.

    Let me try to show the proposed format in a different way. What I suggesting is this:

    I. Increase the Qualifying Stage:
    a. CCL's new format - 16 teams from UNCAF e CFU playing for 1 spot;
    b. My proposal - 16 teams from UNCAF e CFU playing for 4 to 8 spots; plus teams from Mexico, USA, and Canada also playing for 4 to 8 spots.

    II. No Guaranteed Spots:
    a. CCL's new format - 15 spots are secured for teams qualifying through their local leagues;
    b. My proposal - ZERO spots are secured; all 16 spots are filled through the qualifiers.

    III. Better Teams in the Qualifiers:
    a. CCL's new format - champions from MEX, USA, CRC, CFU, HON, PAN, GUA, ELS, and CAN do not need to play in the qualifiers;
    b. My proposal - all teams play in the qualifiers.

    IV. More Opportunity for Teams
    a. CCL's new format - spots are limited;
    b. My proposal - spots are open.
     
  4. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    Increase cost happens with more teams because concacaf has a travel stipend for each team. More teams means more cost in a tournament that has no English tv rights deal. No one except for you wants a concurrent liga mx and MLS just for the ccl. I like that teams get extra qualifiers to make it into the ccl I think that is the fix concacaf should have gone with instead of another crappie format but balloning 16 teams into a champions league even if it is a qualifier is redundant and silly
     
    gremio1903 repped this.
  5. gremio1903

    gremio1903 Member+

    Aug 10, 2011
    Uruguaiana, RS (BRA) [last: Rockville, MD]
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    #5 gremio1903, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
    Please, don't get me wrong, MY PERSONAL preference would be for a CCL with FOUR teams only: one from Mexico; one from US/Canada; one from Central America; and one from the Caribbeans. It would need four dates, with semifinals and finals played in home-and-away series.

    However, I want to improve CCL as is. That is why my starting point is the new format Concacaf announced. I have written the qualifiers to mirror each other for fairness, but that is not necessary. Each zone could be different, indeed. I will show it how below.
     
  6. gremio1903

    gremio1903 Member+

    Aug 10, 2011
    Uruguaiana, RS (BRA) [last: Rockville, MD]
    Club:
    Gremio Porto Alegre
    Central Zone (MEX): 10 teams - 10 MEX
    a) CCL (Round of 16), 4 spots – MEX 1-4;
    b) CCL's Second Qualifier, 4 spots – MEX 5-8;
    c) Liga Concacaf (Round of 16), 2 spots – MEX 9-10;

    North Zone (USA/CAN): 10 teams - 6 USA, 2 CAN, 2 USA/CAN
    a) CCL (Round of 16), 4 spots – Voyageurs Cup (CAN), US Open Cup (USA), MLS Cup (USA/CAN), and Supporter's Shield (USA/CAN) champions;
    b) CCL's Second Qualifier, 4 spots – 3 USA and 1 CAN teams;
    c) Liga Concacaf (Round of 16), 2 spots – 2 USA teams.

    South Zone (UNCAF/CFU): 16 teams - no change

    --

    CCL's Second Qualifiers: 16 teams - 4 MEX, 3 USA, 1 CAN, 8 South Zone teams
    [instead of the 12-team tournament I designed above]

    Four pools of 4 teams (1 MEX, 2 South, 1 USA/CAN); champions qualify to CCL.

    --

    What do you think? Better?

    P.S.: I would need to change the "Liga Concacaf" qualifiers, but that can be arranged later.
     

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