FIFA World Cup 2018 - Round of 16: Argentina vs. France - June 30 [R]

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by locoxriver, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow...that is an intense dislike....lol.
     
  2. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The loss against Croatia or the tie against Iceland should be more annoying.
     
  3. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Caseres is Pirlo-esque.
     
  4. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Agree, Ascacibat, Paredes and Lo Celso should be our new central mids, plus Banega from the veterans. Escalante might be worth a look too.

    The attacking midfield could be built around Lanzini, Lamela, Pavon, Correa plus DiMaria has to still be part of the team.

    Up front it’s time to give Dybala and Icardi a chance as starters, while Messi, Aguero and Martinez can be used as alternates.

    The biggest issue is with goalkeeper and right fullback, where we lack depth.
     
  5. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    So many countries at the world cup and clubs have recently found success using a variation of a 4-4-2 defensive shape with a partnership up top and at least one winger playing as an outside mid.

    That is the shape that France used when defending and transitioning into attack. Griezmann and Giroud played up top and Mbappe out wide in line with Matuidi, Pogba, and Kante. It makes them a solid unit without sacrificing their attacking potential.

    Dybala can't play wide when in a defensive shape. In a 4-4-2, Dybala has to be part of that two. So I have no problem with not starting him over Pavon or Di Maria. Those other guys are wingers and can at least cover the wide positions defensively. What is a little annoying is that a partnership between Dybala and Messi was never once tried ever whether at the WC (which would have been too late) or in qualifiers/friendlies.

    A 4-4-2 false 9 with Messi and Dybala alternating between the #9 and #10 position should have been experimented with over these last 2.5 years. Odd that it wasn't especially when Argentina don't have the best midfielders.
     
  6. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    None of what happened at Russia can be pinned on him. Argentina's record and scoring performance without him for whatever reason has been awful whenever he doesn't start. Yes he misses that one huge chance in high pressure situations, yet the numbers support his inclusion. Plus Argentina's best period of cohesive play came in the first 45 minutes with Russia.

    With all that said, Higuain deserves a lot of crap for missed chances in finals though, but the poor play in this WC and in qualifying isn't on him since he barely saw the field in both.
     
    locoxriver repped this.
  7. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    My point is the NT selection problem. Masche and Higuain based on form shouldnt ever be in this squad, but for whatever reason , 10 veterans were in this WC squad and mostly started and at least play half of the game.
     
    cigar_city repped this.
  8. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    Ideology vs Pragmatism

    Sampaoli, Guardiola, Bielsa, Sarri, etc this is a strand of coaches that is just too dogmatic not only for my taste but have proven to struggle in big matches. Real Madrid won 4 CLs in 5 years not by sticking to a "style" but by varying their play to fit their opponent.

    France are a fast and young side that are at their best when given space to attack into. A solid (not great) Portuguese side shut them out by denying that one thing they need, space. Should France get eliminated, my bet that a team will adopt that approach vs them.

    Unfortunately, Sampaoli only ever wants to play one way. He wants to press high with a high line regardless of who his personnel or opponent are or the context of the match. Germany and Spain are out for the same reasons.

    I also share in your frustration that Argentina get to the 2014 final playing pragmatically with solid defensive principles only to go back to an attack minded way of playing immediately after. Why? Argentina have elite attackers that can win matches as long as the defense isn't wide open. Yet, even in 2014 the team were heavily criticized within Argentina for playing too defensively. It's too bad because it worked and continues to work for teams that set up this way.
     
    Rattlehead, cigar_city, Pipiolo and 2 others repped this.
  9. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    For whatever reason, it feels like very few top clubs field Argentine mids and defenders. It gives the impression that there is a serious lack of talent between the ages of 20-28. Clubs spend a great deal every year scouting to get whatever advantage they can so it's a concerning when most of them deem Argentina's younger players as not good enough. I can only think of a handful (if that) of Argentine players under 28 playing in the best clubs in the world. So compared to this last golden generation, it's worrisome.

    If Otamendi who is an awful defender is anywhere near the national team by 2022, it would a massive sign that Argentina are seriously lacking in talent.
     
  10. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Lol Otamendi is not an awful defender.
     
    cigar_city repped this.
  11. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    He is great, but slightly dirtier than Heinze, Burdisso. There are no doubts in his football, gaming quality. De Michelis was much weaker than all three players.
     
  12. cigar_city

    cigar_city Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Likely where I should NOT be...
    Club:
    Newell s Old Boys
    First you say he's an awful Defender, which he isn't, and then you say while there's no doubt in his football, he plays dirty?
     
  13. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Otamendi needs someone steady beside him, otherwise he tries to do too much, hence why he looked bad this WC.
     

Share This Page