F52: USA v. Netherlands, 7 July

Discussion in 'Women's World Cup' started by soccernutter, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  2. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From 2016 Euros ad campaign. I just thought it was brilliant.

    And uh-oh, look at what some of the US women are doing boarding the plane. Flight from Hell awaiting anyone not from the United States.
    [​IMG]

    Amerika Finale!!
     
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  3. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    #428 luvdagame, Jul 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
    because population has little to do with these things.

    more culture and history, no? the u.s. with their huge population matchup doesn't do too well against you in handball and probably field hockey i bet.

    you have a soccer culture. the u.s. doesn't (some say they do because they have a massive amount of girls running and kicking a ball every weekend. i say that's not really soccer culture).

    netherlands has a great opportunity to bypass the u.s. in soccer because you actually have the culture.

    you just have to put in the time, hard work, and $$.
     
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  4. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hope Solo writing for the Guardian.


     
  5. Bauser

    Bauser Member+

    Dec 23, 2000
    Norway
    Club:
    Fredrikstad FK
    Regarding the Hope Solo quote..

    After winning back-to-back World Cups for the first time ever, is there statistically good enough reason to claim that the World is catching up to the US? Seems like a myth to me. How do you measure "catching up" anyway? How often are the US beaten these days compared to earlier decades? And I'm not only talking about World Cups, but all games.

    .
     
  6. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    I feel like a lot of it is based on OG16 and non major tournament matches. France beat the US 3-1, the US struggled to beat Scotland, Portugal, and Spain, and the US gave up a bunch of goals against Japan, England, and Australia while winning only one of those matches. They arguably should have conceded against Brazil as well, but Brazil had their own issues with finishing. The thing is though that France performed worse at a major tournament as they have a serious tendency to do while the US' defense stepped it up in time for the World Cup. I'm not on either side of this catching up debate; I kind of feel like I'm somewhere in the middle.
     
  7. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    double rep
     
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    As Ethan Frank points out you can look at youth tournaments. However, those are never great predictors of player development and progression to the senior level. It's probably subjective and one can look at the knockout round matches where the US faced some stiff competition. They had the deepest squad which served them well in the tournament and I think their fitness was good though you could tell that they were really out of energy in the last 20 minutes of the final game. A fully fit team would have done better at the breakaway chances they had.
     
  9. Ethan Frank

    Ethan Frank Member

    Chelsea
    United States
    Jun 11, 2019
    If I wasn't slightly favoring the Netherlands, I would have been absolutely livid at Heath. (One of those breakaways should have absolutely not happened because of Mewis mauling over Groenen though, but I'm starting to sound like a broken record there with no one else feeling the need to mention that play.)

    I think the Chile game is making a lot of people think Ellis used her squad a lot more than Wiegman and other coaches. The starters not having to play that game probably did help with fitness in the knockout rounds, but during the knockout rounds, Ellis was almost as routine with her subs as Wiegman was. Press and Lloyd always came on when they didn't start, Horan came on when she didn't start except in the final, Mewis came on against England, and Krieger came on in both the semifinal and final. Unless I'm completely wrong, both Ellis and Wiegman used 15 players in the knockout rounds. However, a lot of people seem to be giving credit to Ellis for using her bench while many people are saying Wiegman had little faith in her bench outside of Roord and Beerensteyn.
     
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  10. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member

    Reign FC, Washington Huskies
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    100%. A perfect answer to an ignorant or condescending post.
     
  11. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member

    Reign FC, Washington Huskies
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Train harder and smarter other than investing money. Though, it doesn’t end there because the USWNT’s dominant success in the world stage is about pulling all the right spots collectively, including science.
     
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  12. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For a long time, the best players in the world have been Team USA and a few others. That has slowly shifted, so much so that in this tournament there were some really good players who have never seen a WC previously. I say that in general, knowing that every team/country has peaks and valleys. The difference here is that the US advanced and won not because they were so much better, but that other teams couldn't finish when given the opportunity the way the US did. As I said elsewhere, in 2015 the US just did not let anybody score apart from the first match and the last. That's it. It wasn't even close in that regard. This team was also very solid all the way around, but had Spain had a dedicated forward, or France been able to finish better, or White not had that handball called against her, it is very possible the US would have been out of the tournament.

    Another thought is that picking the best 23. In the past tournaments it has been a good group, and then a few fillers. This tournament is was a question of who to include and who to leave out.
     
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  13. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ???
    You mean the offside call?
    The White handball happened in the 3rd place match against Sweden.
     
  14. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I posted a link to an Equalizer article about this somewhere, but I'll re-post: https://equalizersoccer.com/2019/07/07/the-world-is-catching-up-but-not-to-the-uswnt/

    Mostly I agree with the article, and to answer your question more directly: there have always been teams that have been able to challenge the US for that top spot. In the 90s, the US frequently lost to Norway. They actually had a losing record to them. In that same decade, the US also occasionally lost to Germany and China. In the early 2000s, Norway begin to drop, but Brazil and Sweden began to challenge. And the list goes on. Those teams around the US that can challenge them for the top spot has changed, but they've always been there. In fact, throughout most of the history of the USWNT (with some exceptions), 1-2 losses a year along with a couple of draws against some top teams has been the norm. That's not changed.

    The way it has changed now is there are more challengers, or more teams that can beat a #1 or #2 team on any given day. I don't think it's so much that everyone has caught up to the US, as the US has also improved over the years, but it's harder to get through a tournament when there are more challengers to have to play. The world is catching up, in that to say the field of competitors is deeper. This run to the final through Sweden, Spain, France, England, and then the Netherlands was the most difficult for the US in any tournament, imo. They've never had to go through such top competition to get to the final.
     
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  15. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry, switched the two. Yes, that is what I meant.
     
  16. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member

    Reign FC, Washington Huskies
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I liked your post, and edited it to save space only. I believe that we need to think differently about what is meant by "the most dominant team." To many, the label means they should be winning every game 3-0, 4-0, 5-0, or more. But that kind of dominance does not exist, and it never has existed.

    To me being the most dominant team means in general, the USWNT is the most sucessful in World Cup, Olympic, and Confederation competitions since 1991, and more importantly that for the last 12 years, this success has been continuously sustained . The facts:
    2007 WC - bronze; 2008 Olys - gold; 2011 WC - silver; 2012 Olys - gold; 2015 WC - gold
    2016 Olys - the horror! ....... 2019 WC - gold
    2016 Finished in the top 8; eliminated in the QF via KFTPM after a 1-1 draw - GER & CAN both won 1-0, BRA & AUS drew 0-0 w BRA advancing. US scored as many goals that round as every team that advanced.​

    This sustained, unmatched excellence means the USWNT is the most dominant team in the world and every match they face a team that wants more than anything to play their very best and beat the US. Ellis said something like, 'other teams visit pressure but this team lives in pressure.'

    IMO, they deserve to celebrate their brains out after winning this one.
     
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  18. Thomsen

    Thomsen Member+

    Aug 6, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    USA is 100% the best nation in the women's game at the moment and will be for the next decade too. I mean, medalling in every World Cup there's been and four times won the WC and the OG? :whistling:

    Now I think that what's currently happening in the women's game is that Germany since 2015 has lost its grip and is nowhere near really to be able to challenge the USA these days, sadly :unsure: I considered Germany to be the closest to USA in terms of matching their physicality and mentality
     
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  19. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member

    Reign FC, Washington Huskies
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What a badass.



     
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  20. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Yeah, the 99ers had inspired the new generation, and the new generation didn't live under their shadow, not anymore. I wish the same for the next generation. It's time to let the young players have their show.
     
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  21. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Got Withdraw?
     
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  22. Chizzy

    Chizzy Member

    Reign FC, Washington Huskies
    United States
    Aug 7, 2003
    Upper Left, USA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Like what Jill Ellis said, if you’re one of the 23 players selected to a WWC or the Olympics, “you are no longer on the shadow, you’re on the spotlight.” I thought the statement was a bit overdone, but as a fan who grew up in the tournament it couldn’t be further from the truth.
     
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  23. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Is the Netherlands WNT going to have a parade?
     
  24. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    No parade for second...
     
  25. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    One analyst--whom I will not ID--went so far as to claim that Ellis was brilliant for rotating her squad in the second match against Chile. I had to laugh at the comment. Chile was the second worst team in the tournament. The U.S. had more quality depth than anybody--a squad with little to no drop-off at several positions--and was obviously in the easiest bracket. Ellis would have been DUMB not to have rotated her squad in the 2nd match, as she was going to win it regardless of who played. It was obvious that that was the game to play other people and so keep your preferred top 10 on-field players a bit fresher at the business end of the tournament. It was also said that Ellis was smart to play 5 in the back against France and England--and yet in both games the move nearly backfired, and some football experts think it was exactly the wrong move as the U.S. was outmanned in the midfield. When you win everyone thinks you're brilliant and good, even if you weren't exactly.
     
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