Euro 2016 other teams thread

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by johnny6, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. toronto_soccer

    toronto_soccer Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Country:
    Italy
    So for winning their group, Italy would have to go through Spain, Germany then France to reach the finals. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. :rolleyes:
     
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  2. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Italy & Spain were suppose to be in the same bracket as Portugal. That is 9 trophies there. Let's discount the English trophy. If things played out on paper, the distribution would have been pretty even.
     
  3. TheAnswer1313

    TheAnswer1313 Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    Charleston, WV
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Too much emphasis is being placed on hard side vs easy side of the bracket.

    But that can happen at ANY tournament. You're playing 3 group games. You drop one unexpectedly and you're on the other side of the bracket you were supposed to be on and thus creating an imbalance.

    The fact that Spain, France, England, Italy and Germany were on one side of the bracket wasn't the biggest issue to me. I mean unless you decide to re-seed once you hit the knockout phase (something I don't think has ever been done to my knowledge) this is something you're going to run into from time to time.

    You can't predict how things are going to shake out. To me, the BIGGEST issues was the fact you had two group stage winners having to play runner ups while the others enjoyed playing 3rd place teams......teams that should have never been in the knockout phase to begin with. That was decided BEFORE the tournament even began. That was messed up. Yeah Spain messed up but it was always gonna be either them or Croatia while the other group winners got easier round of 16 games.
     
  4. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    #279 Pietro Calcio, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    I know.....but things don't always play out on paper....This happens in the WC too but at least they don't use four 3rd place teams anymore.

    my contention is that you can't blatantly disregard the winners of Group E and F when factoring in who should ply the four 3rd place teams. Had they done so I believe it would immensely helped towards creating more harmony in the KO's. I don't say this only because Italy won their group. I say this because it would been for the better of the overall tournament regardless. Instead what we saw was the shit hitting the fan with the brackets and imo they didn't take all necessary steps to avoid this

    I can't find one discernible reason why to not weigh Group Winners E and F along with all the other group winners in A through D.

    And in regards to saying Italy was a 3rd place team in 1994 , that's true they were, but you still have to give them their due credit in getting out of the group. At least they registered a win with a draw and loss ( 4 pts ) and the only thing that separated them from the 2 teams above them in their group was goal difference and not points ( very very slim margin ). Also in WC 1994 not one of the four 3rd place teams went through to the KOs with only 3 points where as in this Euro we had two teams with 3 points go through. It did happen in WC 1990 but a win then was only counted for 2 pts ( not 3pts now ) to be fair to them.

    pretty much what I'm saying
     
  5. TheAnswer1313

    TheAnswer1313 Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    Charleston, WV
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    Italy
    There is none. I mean they weighted the 3rd place teams to see which of the four advanced........why couldn't they have done the same thing with the 1st place teams.
     
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  6. TheAnswer1313

    TheAnswer1313 Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    Charleston, WV
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    Italy
    I mean if you insist on having this number of teams in this thing and furthermore you insist on having 4 3rd place teams make the knockout round, at least reward the group winners that did the best in their groups.

    With so much that goes into these tournaments, I'm at a loss how they could look at the format and think "oh yeah this works"
     
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  7. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    There was no reason , it was just negligence. Unless the powers that be looked at the teams in groups A through D and maliciously thought that certain teams only in those groups , due to certain biases , were of more importance than any of the teams they saw in group E and F. And if you really look at it all the teams that people usually speak more highly of were indeed in groups A through D , not including Belgium , but Belgium was the new guy on the block.
     
  8. TheAnswer1313

    TheAnswer1313 Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    Charleston, WV
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    Italy
    I think the rule was out way before the draw took place. If it wasn't, then I'd have some major concerns with the process itself.

    But now that you mention it, they always knew from the start France was going into Group A. So in addition to home field advantage they also had the initial advantage of never having to worry about being drawn with a group runner up.

    At least with the others UEFA could always say "well yeah we know some get paired with runner ups while the majority get 3rd place teams but we did a draw and so it was fair".
     
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  9. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    unless they finished runner up.....but you knew that was going to never happen ;)

    their unbiased explanation to the agenda :ROFLMAO:
     
  10. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    A third place team defeated 3 first place teams to win the cup. That nulls any argument about the use of third place sides.
     
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  11. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    #286 Pietro Calcio, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    no one is saying 3rd place sides shouldn't be used......not at all.....just the balancing of ALL the group winners against them was questionable

    your argument void :D

    also it was always my belief that Portugal deserved the euro as looking at if from the other side of the coin they also didn't lose a single match and I was rooting for them as well. so this isn't sour grapes on behalf of them in the slightest.

    The overall basic contention here is they could have done better in creating more harmony but they didn't. And it was highly irresponsible of them just to blatantly disregard the winners of E and F without cause. I still would of held this position whether or not Italy wins their group as I always believe in balance.....I'm a Libra ! :laugh:
     
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  12. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    The 3rd place teams were distributed to both sides of the brackets. Two on each side. The imbalance is a misperception because teams did not finish as they were seeded. It happens at every tournament.

    Round of 16

    Saturday, 25 June
    • Switzerland (A2) 1:1 (4:5 PK) Poland(C2) - Stade Geoffroy Guichard, Saint-Etienne
    • Wales (B1) 1:0 Northern Ireland (C3) - Parc des Princes, Paris
    • Croatia (D1) 0:1 e.t. Portugal (F3) - Stade Bollaert-Delelis, Lens Agglo

    Sunday, 26 June
    • France (A1) 2:1 Republic of Ireland (E3) - Stade de Lyon, Lyon
    • Germany (C1) 3:0 Slovakia (B3) - Stade Pierre Mauroy, Lille Métropole
    • Hungary (F1) 0:4 Belgium (E2) - Stadium de Toulouse, Toulouse

    Monday, 27 June
    • Italy (E1) 2:0 Spain (D2) - Stade de France, Saint-Denis
    • England (B2) 1:2 Iceland (F2) - Stade de Nice, Nice
     
  13. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    of course two 3rd place teams were distributed to each side of the bracket as they always planned before with the format.

    it's in how the group winners got distributed against them with 2 group winners not even being considered that people have issue with.
     
  14. turco3

    turco3 Member

    Jul 23, 2006
    @Pietro Calcio If we were in the weak bracket you wouldn't be posting for weeks on end about the format. Give it up. Without a reseed it is mathematically impossible to accommodate all first place teams. It's the same format as World Cup 86-94.
     
  15. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    #290 Pietro Calcio, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    sorry friend....i still wouldn't prefer it....as ya know how people love to discredit Italy whenever possible ;)

    and no it's not really impossible.....you can rate all the group winners ( top 4 )... just like you rate all the top 4 third placed teams ......you can even have a 2nd group phase like 1982....or if not that perhaps even a bye for certain teams....so many ways ;)

    give it up you say?....tell that to over half the people speaking here then....stronzo :p
     
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  16. forza_azzurri

    forza_azzurri Member

    May 31, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    It's all Platini's fault.
     
  17. TheAnswer1313

    TheAnswer1313 Member

    Dec 12, 2007
    Charleston, WV
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    Italy
    This isn't accurate. We were talking about this way before Italy was put into that bracket as something that could potentially happen.

    Yeah you're correct in the simple fact that some 1st place teams will have to face some 2nd place teams but they could have ranked the 1st place teams instead of automatically saying that E and F have to face group runner ups.
     
  18. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    It is the luck or unluck of the draw. A draw was done to determine the groups. Once tams were placed, the outcomes were already decided. Six is not a denominator of sixteen. So the numbers were going to be what they were. Fairness is not an issue when you reach the last 16. Winning is.
     
  19. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    fairness is always an issue when you disregard the importance, outcome and relevance of 2 group winners
     
  20. toronto_soccer

    toronto_soccer Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Country:
    Italy
    That's exactly what they should have done. Groups E and F were at a disadvantage before the tournament even started.
     
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  21. toronto_soccer

    toronto_soccer Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Country:
    Italy
    So Italy had to finish second to be in that bracket? Spain had to finish first to be in it?
     
  22. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Spain came from pot 1. Italy pot 2. When the draws were conducted, Spain was among one of the top 6 seeds. Italy was among the second group. Belgium was the higher seed and suppose to win the group. They did not. Spain was suppose to win its group but Croatia beat them. Therefore, Spain & Italy were surprise entries on that side of the bracket.
     
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  23. toronto_soccer

    toronto_soccer Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Country:
    Italy
    Grazie Falc.

    So if it all played out on paper, Spain and Italy would have switched brackets with Belgium and Croatia? If so, Italy got punished for winning their group.
     
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  24. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    @toronto_soccer

    so did Hungary too.....why were these winners of no importance? things don't always play out the way they should on paper.....still no excuse to blindly disregard 2 group winners right?
     
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  25. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    @toronto_soccer

    they could go back to the format they used in the 1982 World Cup to make the group stage harder again for the next Euro

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_FIFA_World_Cup

    And if not that then maybe the top 4 group winners receive an automatic bye while there is some type of preliminary before.

    There is always a way to properly include and balance everything
     
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