I think your giving Vasco too much credit. I never bought how Guille was this great piece but a lot of people did but you have to take into account that he was injured all that time. Still I can excuse Vasco going with him against South Africa but after that horrid game, to still stick with him was a mistake and on him. So you might be right about the crticism on Chicharito before the WC but not about the injury because he was healthier than Guille. Also people may have criticized Chicharo before but after the openin game, reporters and fans were in his camp during the WC so they do have a point about the acclaim. You also have to remember that all of Mexico was against Bofo and Aguirre stood by him and all of Mexico was right and Aguirre looked like a stuborn fool. Mexico has had a lot of bad coaches but Aguirre's decisions in the 2002 WC especially against the US were historically bad. It could have been the worst coached game in a WC in mexican history. Then after 8 years, he gets another try and he does just as bad. He had a lot of things riding on this and he did as bad a job or worse. There is NO excuse for him to start the Uruguay game with Blanco and Guille. No excuse at all. Sorry, but Vasco deserves all the criticism he gets.
yes, it's true. Vasco had a chance to redeem himself this past WC and put forth his knowledge and gained European experience to the test, but he failed big time. he did a better job in the group stage of the 2002 WC than 2010. i think i can speak for everyone that no one expected him to fuck up as bad as he did this past summer idiot
That ultimately Blanco and Bofo didn't deliver...really, what the fack was he expecting?...really, its just so..irresponsible...2nd round of the world cup, against a powerful team, I'm sure he had his pep talk with bofo, and bofo must've been pumped up, and promised vasco he would deliver, blah blah...but really, deep down, he knew bofo was gonna bust...and his staff (especially capello), were they all really that gutless or that stupid to not tell him anything?, it was like the "emperor´s new clothes" of coaching decisions
Nice rehash... Guille on the needle over a healthy Chicharito doesn't appear like a rationale decision. Starting team-less old man Conejo over Memo/Michel isn't very rationale either.
Chicharito played as a lone 9 during the first set of preparation games and plenty of people on these boards were beginning to question how good he really was because he wasn't scoring while conveniently forgetting he was just returning from injury. Guille got hurt less than three weeks before the opening game and Vasco seemed to think a hurt Guille was still better as a lone 9 than Chicharito and if one must be honest, at that point in time Javier had not proven he could fulfill Vasco's needs in that position. That is, of course, debatable and I think we all might disagree but that is why hindsight is 20/20. Other than one of the goals Argentina scored on us in the second round, none of the goals we allowed during the tournament would've been stopped by Ochoa or any of our other keepers. Like I said before, some, if not most, of those decisions had a certain rationale behind them.....whether we agree with that line of thought is a different matter but the two examples you gave are rather weak. I honestly don't think things would've changed much had Chicharito played more or if Ochoa had been in goal.
I didn't agree with the coaching staff, but I saw the Conejo move as a need for someone who 1-Aguirre trusted (no idea why not Memo), and 2-someone who could play as a libero when pushing both fullbacks forward (which Mexico tried often). As IMD says, I saw the Franco move as the coaches seeing Guille as the superior lone 9 in a 4-5-1. Though it didn't make as much sense in a 4-3-3 or once you insert Blanco/Bofo in the lineup. Or once you saw how injured Guille was. For me, this is all water under the bridge now, to be filed away with Lavolpe leaving Blanco off the team in 06, Aguirre taking out Ramoncito in 02, Lapuente using Rodrigo Lara, etc.
The Guille thing could be understandable for the game against South Africa but not after that. It's the world cup and you need to do changes immediately and game to game. Keeping with Guille after that was idiocy and having him start the game with Blanco against Uruguay, was beyond stupid. One of the worst calls of all time. I really don't get how the criticism of Mexico in ESPN and the rest of the press has been set on losing to Argentina and not getting to the 5th game. Argentina is a superior team, loaded with starts. Sure they had a bad coach but they were still a superior team in almost every position and Mexico had to have a great game to upset them. The game were Mexico truly lost out was the Uruguay game and it had one of the worst decisions by a coach in WC history. That is the game were Mexico was basically eliminated and it cost them the easiest road to a semifinals ever for the NT. As for Conejo Perez, sure he didn't screw up but I agree with the reports of people like the ESPN crew about how you should have given it to youth. Perez didn't screw up but he didn't really add much either. If you had people to be equal why not give it to either of the young GK with a future ahead instead of a guy that was finished and is finished. And all the reports that I hear about how he didn't trust him, well then the coach should be blamed for that. They try to justify as if it's the coach thing as for not to get flack given when it should be the total opposite. If Javier didn't trust Ochoa but trusted Bofo and gambled on that, then he deserves the flack and he can live down as one of the worst if not the worst mexican coach at a World Cup level.
Bueno....una cosa es decir que Memo tenia que haber sido titular porque el conejo nos costo un partido o algun punto importante y la neta que ese no fue el caso. Otros podrian decir que Memo merecia ser titular por su trayectoria a tan corta edad. Pero lo que dices es cierto, si el cuerpo tecnico no veia much diferencia entre el #1 (conejo) y el #2 (ochoa) entonces porque no darle la confianza al chavo? Hay que analizar estas situaciones y no irnos por la tangente....no todo es blanco y negro, especialmente en esto del futbol.
Ochoa maybe not as Conejo no la cago gacho, but Chicaharo would have been instrumental in getting through the first round as 1st (even the defining piece in the puzzle IMO) all this not a proven 9 yet is BS he had been proving time and time again he was the real deal,but people dont count tearing up the FMF and friendlies as valid,when IMO stunning goals are real in any league specially first touch goals ala Tecos game or hangtime against N.Z.,and even if he wasn't a so called proven forward why start Guille over him ?Cause he's played for Villareal before? Cheech was the striker and even MNT player with the best momentum going into S.A. and Aguirre simply didn't have the balls or brains to play him simple as that, for that I will always say chinga a tu madre perro Asco Aguirre!!!!!!!
There's something to be said for tactical ambiguity. The mistake Vasco made, as pointed out by Rafael Hernandez before, was changing his set up (4-4-2 to 4-3-3) shortly before the tournament and holding onto the idea that Guille would excel in the hold up role in both set ups if necessary. Again, go back and revisit the threads from the first set of friendly games prior to the WC, people were doubting Javier because he wasn't scoring and was missing "sitters" even though he was returning from injury and wasn't sharp. And yes, Guille had a much more proven trajectory than Javier at that point in time and was coming off a decent season with West Ham where he played a similar role to what Aguirre wanted from him on the national team so it is completely understandable, within that context, that the coach would have preferred Guille as a starter instead of the young Javier. That's not to say that I personally agree with some of the decisions but I can put myself in his shoes and understand (up to a certain point) how and why Vasco made some of those decisions. Like I said in a previous post, he gambled and he lost.
I actually liked the 4-3-3 system that Aguirre used in South Africa. When it clicked it was a very open, dynamic and fluid system that was interesting to watch, but this happened primarily when youth and speed were emphasized. From my perspective, Aguirre's main issue was his personnel decisions. Also, Mexico did not pose any real threat when it came to finishing. The final touch or pass was always off. This eventually rendered the 4-3-3 system a waste since it somewhat depended on scoring first or holding possession like Spain, and we all know Mexico does not have Spain's techinical ability with the ball. Mexico's defense was too slow to defend against the counterattack, and the defense was undisciplined when it came to defending. I remember seeing mental lapses in positioning and just a general lack of focus, all of which came to absolute fruition against Argentina.
Excellent points, especially regarding the defense. I think our defenders suffer from the lackadaisical style of play our league is known for and even though Osorio, Moreno, Maza and Salcido all play/played in Europe, when they're with the national team they seem to revert to their old habits.
This is what is going to make him the worst WC coach ever in Mexican history. In 2002, he not only had a bunch of defensive players in his squad that he didn't use (Brown, De Anda, Villa, Alberto Rodriguez) making us have a totally unbalanced squad and short of offensive players but he called up Luis Hernandez and used him as a difference maker. Luis Hernandez was an embarassment in 2002. For 8 years he had to live with the decision of taking out Ramon Morales for Luis Hernandez against the US. And then 8 years later he comes up and in the key game, he starts Blanco and Guille Franco and botches it up worse.
He's such a dumbass, I still can't believe he got a job at all. I so want him to fail, for wasting all that talent we had. pobre pendejo.
I honestly think this guy just played everyone. 4+ million Dollars for one year on a job where he knew it did not make any difference how he or the team performed as long as people keep buying the bullshit from the tv stations and the pochos and ex-pats keep paying first rate prices for third rate product. Heck why not right?. He did not scout new players, he was rarely seen at games, compared to Sven, who used to go to four or more games a weekend. Instead he relied on players he knew from 2002 and those who played in 2006 because he was familiar with them, not necessarily because they were in top for. That in my view is huge mistake, but I don't think he gave a fock about that, just about collecting money and playing monkey for televisa. Plus two months paid vacation to Europe staying at the best hotels just before the W.C. Not a bad gig.
The guy's attitude and body language before the Argentina game disgusted me. Motivation was supposed to be his strength. He just wanted to get it over with. Pinche vato mamon.
I really doubt that.. IMO, Vasco needed a better performance with the MNT to elevate his status as a top coach and could have landed a better Euro club after the World Cup.. Much of the decisions to rebuild the Mexican squad did come down to Mario Carillo. In the end the team's lackluster performance should be blamed on the FMF for all the constant changes in coaching staff. He can't be worse than Jose Roca. And overall his results are still good. If anything, Aguirre has not had the benefit of being in charge of the national team for a full cycle. He has received the squad in similiar conditions; in the brink of elimination. To still critisize him for not doing better is quite unfair. Mexico fans are always quick to attack the players and coaches but rarely point the finger at the FMF the true culprits of Mexico's inconsistancy. I agree, Epic brain farts from Javier Aguirre which is what keeps him from being a World Class coach. IMO, Vasco has a defined style of coaching which has brought him good results on he long run but are not as effective when playing short tourneys like the World Cup. As mentioned earlier; Vasco has shown to be stuborn when it comes time to gamble on younger players.
The thing is, when it comes down to it, Conejo didn't really cost us the Round of 16 game (or any other games in the tournament) and with the formation that we were playing, Juarez was more apt to play than Guardado. Those aren't valid criticisms at all, at least not in my view. The Chicharo thing is whatever, the kid hadn't played one WC qualifier and had only been tested in friendlies, it really isn't all that far fetched to think that he wasn't going to be a starter, at least by Mexican standards in which youth is never trusted until they win you important games, which Chicharo did against France but Vasco is stubborn, we all know that. That doesn't mean he's the anti-christ.
The media has gone crazy like always Pick your ideal lineup for Mexico Chicharo, Guardado, Ochoa, Barrera etc. Uruguay still had better players Argentina still had better players The question shouldn't be why Aguirre was putting Guille into the lineup (I understand it though) It should be why a country of 3.5 million and 40 million have better players than a country of 110 million. Thats the problem but they never talk about that do they? in any show, they like take it for granted that this is the best it could get which is BS. Chicharo had everything to succeed as a pro, family history and guidance and connections at Chivas. And he was about to be cut and leave the sport for good. Imagine Chicharo with the same abilities except he was from Villahermosa or Hermosillo and he had no famous relatives would he be playing in England? Hell scratch that would he be playing in 1A? I think you know the answer
Sorry but this is bullshit. I haven't been criticizing him for not getting to the quarterfinals but for those mistakes he did which are all on him. Roca had a horrible world cup but that was just one cup, Mejia Baron also had one of those epic fails but neither of them had a second chance at the world cup and then did the mistake again or worse. Aguirre's mistakes had nothing to do with the FMF or with him not having enought time, this isn't a proceso thing. Everybody knew Luis Hernandez was an embarassment in 2002 and yet he subbed him in and took out the player who had done the best in the game agains the US. Everybody knew Blanco wasn't fit to start and all of Mexico was claiming for him to bench Franco for Chicharito (like I said, he can be excused before the SA game but not after it) and he starts them both in a key game. ALL of Mexico was booing Bofo and questioning Aguirre for it and saying how he was going to stink and yet he sticks to his guns and then Bofo comes and plays in the WC and does what EVERYBODY but Aguirre knew would happen. And sorry but that's on him. If people want to praise coaches for what they do when they suceed, then they should get lambasted when they screw up like Aguirre did. Criticizing Conejo for a bad WC appearance isn't valid but criticizing Aguirre for screwing two youth keepers to me is. That being said, it wasn't the case now. Uruguay have 2 of the best forwards in the world and better than anything that we have but the rest of the team isn't overly superior and it's not Argentina. If Mexico had prepared to meet Uruguay the way they did against Argentina the last 2 WC's, I think we should have won. Uruguay are a good team and now they have to be considered better than Mexico but they aren't another level. South Korea gave them a good match and Ghana should have beaten them if not for Gyan. The problem of the press is how they totally sent their criticisms to a game that we should have loss and we face a superior team and not the real loss when we had the chance against a team of our tier and facing the best ever path to a semifinals ever and we blew it mostly because our coach once againt f'ing up like the last time we had a similiar chance ( to make matters worse for Aguirre, he twice screwed us of our golden path's to semis).
I'll take Forlan, Suarez and Cavani over our 3 up top. I'll take Lugano and Godin over Maza and whoever you partner him up with. I'd take Ruso Perez over Torrado I'd take Maxi Pereira over Osorio or Juarez whoever you put at rightback Fucile and Salcido is a wash I'd take Ochoa over Muslera Rafa over Arevalo Guardado over Alvaro Pereira 7-3-1 in Uruguay's favor. Maybe Cheech over Cavani or a wash, Maybe. Other than that I can't see a change. If you don't agree that they are better you must agree that its debatable and that shouldn't happen when you are debating a country of 110 million with a country of 3.5 million. It shouldn't even be a discussion.