England Senior Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    He’s so obsessed with this notion of solidity and protecting his defence (even though it doesn’t work) that I can’t see it never happening again. I bet at the least he brings that partnership back to attempt to close a game out. We then proceed to hold on for dear life.
     
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  2. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    In fairness to Southgate though, most managers are at least a little bit stubborn about one thing or another. Admittedly, if I simply wanted an English CB that plays regularly in the PL, then I'd have gone with Tarkowski or Dunk over Keane as a stopgap until Gomez' resolves his situation, Stones sorts his injury problems out or the new options like Tomori, Tuanzebe and to look even further down the line the likes of Guehi or THB emerge properly and develop.
     
  3. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Wouldn’t surprise me if he brings it back for the next game because he will be worried about Montenegro’s attacking threat! :ninja:
     
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  4. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    I thought Winks was brilliant when he came on for Spurs at half time. Dier on the other hand was pretty awful at centre-back all game.
     
  5. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    Dier needs to move on before long. Very hard to see him regaining his place in midfield and he isn't going to be first-choice in defence either.
     
  6. Manchester21

    Manchester21 Member

    Manchester City
    England
    Jun 17, 2017
    Rob holding getting a start for Arsenal. Never seems to get mentioned on here, but before his injury I thought he was really good. Very composed on the ball.

    If we can get stones back confident and fit. I’d go back to stones and maguire
     
  7. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    For me tomori and maguire
     
  8. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Sancho just went off after 35 minutes! I take it, it must be his injury that he picked up last weekend flaring up again?
     
  9. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    BBC Sport reckon it was tactical.
     
  10. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Take that with a huge pinch of salt tbh. Very very odd to take off a star player that early in a big game even if it is tactical.
     
  11. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Well, I had the game on my phone whilst watching the Bayern v Dortmund game and tbh he wasn’t great and did jog off but maybe thought he was still not recovered from his injury. Just seemed an odd time to instantly take him off for tactical reasons. Only 10 mins from the break.
     
  12. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Maddison scores again. Surely he will get 1 cap over next two games?
     
  13. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Sancho and Barkley should not be risked imo if there is any doubts which there must be after this weekend. Get Grealish called up as he can cover for Barkley and presumably Sancho. Or even Harvey Barnes to cover Sancho if needed.
    It’s not like we haven’t got good options to call up unlike a few years ago.
     
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  14. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    There is being stubborn and then there is being stupid.
     
  15. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
  16. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Sancho is an injury doubt for England so let's see if Gareth is full of shit over grealish
     
  17. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Absolutely ridiculous statement for him to make. I actually feel the top 6 have a very fair amount of English players in their sides, most have 3 or more which makes up over a quarter of their teams. Given the multinational nature of football and the amount of top players produced by all the major nations, this is a good return even if he believes their should be more given the pl and it's top clubs are English/based in England. United regularly have Maguire, AWB, Shaw(when fit) and Rashford in their 11. Liverpool have TAA, Henderson and will likely start to play AOC more throughout the season. Not their fault Gomez got an injury and had to be replaced by someone who kept their place on merit once he was fit again. Even so that's a good level of representation. Spurs have Winks, Kane, Alli and Rose regularly playing games. Arsenal are bringing through youngsters in Willock and Saka. City have Walker and Sterling regularly starting and it's not their fault Stones has been a crock. They are also developing Foden and are starting to look like they'll be true to the word on him.

    Point is, there's a more than big enough talent pool for him to choose from both from the top 6 but also elsewhere in the PL such as at Leicester. This statement is not only disappointing due to it not being true or fair, but also because it is basically Southgate saying that he doesn't like picking players that aren't playing for big clubs. Even though the players at clubs like Leicester, Sheffield United, Villa etc have had a real impact in the premier league and have proven themselves more than worthy of an England place in certain cases.

    I do like Southgate and appreciate his work to date, but he does make baffling decisions and come out with strange statements that are questionable at times.
     
  18. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    We havent produced this much talent since the '04-0'6 period
     
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  19. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah I was also surprised in what he said but can only think the reason he said it is to try and keep the pressure on the top Clubs to play more English players. I don’t think things have been this healthy for quite some time and it will only get better imo. We are currently averaging 33.95% so far this season for English qualified players in the Premier League which I’m pretty sure is quite a big increase from the last few seasons regardless of the Chelsea transfer ban and I read a while ago that Premier League Clubs are currently giving more playing time to U21 players than most across Europe except France & Spain ( not quite sure about Spain, we might even be ahead of them in this regard )
     
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  20. Red Bird

    Red Bird Member+

    Sep 30, 2003
    Oxford
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I’ve been trying to decipher Southgate’s explanations. And, I’ve given up as he is making little sense at all. I am just thinking he prefers certain players over others.
     
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  21. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    The issue I have atm and I raised this back in the September break is that Southgate's personnel selections and preferences make it difficult to understand what philosophy we are trying to adopt.

    I actually watched and remember a podcast at the end of the world cup where Honigstein, Balagué and Marcotti were discussing this and had a debate between the three of them as to whether we were trying to play a possession based style, a pressing style or a more direct one. Balagué seemes to think we were trying to play possession football whilst Honigstein seemed to think we were going for a more direct style of play. The main reason for the debate however, was due to the makeup of the midfield confusing them as to what our philosophy was and the fact that Southgate had spoken about being influenced by Guardiola and Pochettino.

    Ironically though, I'd say we are set up much more like a Klopp side. In terms of having a midfield that is set up to be physically durable, direct and hardworking with the aim of getting the ball to the front 3 as quickly as possible.
     
  22. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I think the problem Maddison and graelish have is Southgate wants to copy Liverpool with their drone midfielders who aren’t that creative but great at winning the ball and getting it out wide or to firminho

    the issue is we don’t have a false 9 or the fulcrum like Fabinho, who is excellent at turning and passing

    we need the likes of graelish or Maddison over drones like ox or lingard
     
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  23. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    I wouldn't call Chamberlain a drone. Before his injury he had everything. He could beat a player, score goals. Hes still only young
     
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  24. dbs235

    dbs235 Member

    Mar 30, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Barca and Madrid usually only have around 3/4 Spanish players starting for them, same with Bayern and German players, same with Juve, same with PSG. They have the whole world of players to choose from. The smaller clubs in their league use their academies more than ours do. The under-21 Euros's often shows the difference when German or Spanish lads have played about 100 top flight league games, compared to ours.
     
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  25. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Very good point. Even if Southgate's intention behind that statement was what it said on the tin which is to try and get more English players starting for the top 6, he's wasting his time. Ultimately these clubs have huge financial clout, worldwide scouting networks and more often than not, foreign managers. This means that it's always going to be a fight that England managers and fans unfortunately can't win.

    What he can do though, is send out the message that simply playing first team football is the most important factor in getting an England call up. Not just playing for a big club. Just look recently, where Delph was called up last summer despite the fact he almost never played for City last season. Dier was also regularly featuring ahead of Winks until recently despite it being the other way round at club level for quite some time. Also, in September, the Ox got a run out despite having not played regular football for Liverpool for over a year at that time whilst Maddison was left to sit on the bench. Even in this break, CHO does not warrant being picked ahead of either Barnes or Grealish no matter how exciting as he is, especially given he's slipped below Pulisic in the pecking order now.

    I just think that he needs to get his own house in order with regards to selecting the most in form, match fit players available to him before he goes moaning on about a lack of opportunity for English players at top clubs.

    I've just graduated with a business management degree. Do I expect to just instantly land a top management job at Apple or Google? No, I realise I must work my way up, prove myself and earn it. This is the elephant in the room that's almost never mentioned. Clubs like Chelsea, United, Liverpool, City etc are amongst the very best football clubs in the world so just like an unproven young employee would expect to work their way up in any other industry, why should it be any different with young players in football? That is something I admire in the likes of Alli, Maddison, Grealish, Sancho etc that they've not thrown a strop and have instead decided to work their way up and establish themselves the hard way.
     

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