England Senior Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Have I missed something and is Grealish now considered a wide attacking option and can’t play in a more central role like Mount, and Maddison? I know he has played wider for Villa just recently but I always still consider Grealish as a midfield option rather than a wide option long term.
     
    sharpovic repped this.
  2. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Even if he is, it seems like a very harsh call to select CHO over him based on form.
     
  3. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    It's a very young squad. Which is a positive
     
  4. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    On wasting time picking Keane, I will defend Southgate there. Stones' injuries, Gomez' lack of minutes and then a lack of other CB's to pick from means he's not really had much choice. I think his plan now will be to try and partner Stones and Maguire whilst also keeping an eye on Tomori over the rest of the season to see what/who his best option there is.
     
  5. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    I think he might have cornered himself into Maguire + Mings tbh.

    Could've helped Gomez by giving him much needed minutes.
     
  6. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    I know they haven't put together a consistent run of performances over an extended period yet, however I'd like to have seen a bit more pressure on Pickford from Henderson and Ramsdale. Even if Southgate had just somehow found a way to drop in their form in his press conference or that he's been impressed, it would have been refreshing. I feel they've both done more than Heaton and Pope this season and have a much bigger chance in the long term to put serious pressure on Pickford.
     
    roverman and TopBanana10 repped this.
  7. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Just going to add the Squad on position based to make it clearer:
    87FE7048-E9A0-4D9F-811C-F32D4E132C88.png
     
    TopBanana10 repped this.
  8. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Yeah, I would agree with you there I have to say. I understand what others have said about planning for the Euro’s and I’m sure Southgate has a fully fit CHO as a certainty for the Squad come the Euro’s but like I said earlier, I would have let CHO stay with the U21’s on this occasion just to keep him ticking over to help get his form back. Playing games is what he needs now and I’m unsure of how much playing time he will get during this International break, certainly not as much as the U21’s.
     
  9. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I do query the inclusion of Barkley though I have to say, I mean he’s not played any football for a month now but still included. I know people will come back with the he’s always done well for England argument which is fair enough but are we that short in that position that there is no one else who would be under consideration?
     
  10. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    It's not like Barkley has been named as one of three. Chamberlain + Maddison in there. Only ever gonna get so many new faces this close to a tournament.
     
  11. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Henderson would have been ideal but I hope one of Heaton or Pope plays against Kosovo. Not that they’re better than Pickford but you’d like to go into a tournament with back up keepers on a few caps.
     
    ht_hu96 and roverman repped this.
  12. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    The main thing that irks me about Southgate is his inconsistencies and double standards in terms of selections and lineups. The common consensus is that Walker has now been phased out due to his age, yet he's less than 4 months older than Trippier and less than 6 months older than Delph, two players who's England careers seem to be very much alive and kicking for the foreseeable future. Particularly in the case of Trippier, have his performances for club and country really warranted him being so obviously favoured to Walker in that position? They almost certainly haven't, not to mention Walker plays in a better team, is a more balanced player, and also now brings vital trophy winning experience. Not saying I don't like Trippier or that I don't think he has anything to offer, but his performances have been nowhere near the level that should immortalise you in the way he seems to be.

    Secondly, he's inconsistent in the way he brings in young/new players. The clear favouring of CHO over Grealish despite the fact that performance wise, there's been nothing in it between the two seems very strange to say the least. The former has basically just been guaranteed an automatic place in the squad from now and moving forward, whilst the latter is told he still doesn't cut the mustard despite having had the much better start to the season. There's also the Maddison and Mount case, the latter has already got starts and minutes under his belt, whilst the former hasn't had a sniff. This is despite the fact that Maddison has been much more impressive over the last 12 months.

    Furthermore, there's the differing attitude towards players who aren't playing regularly at club level. Gomez can't get a look in atm, yet Barkley seems to be high up in the pecking order for his spot.

    I understand managers will always have players they favour as they want continuity and stability in their squad. I also understand that they need to try and get a balance and include things like experience, leadership etc. However, there is also a lot to be said for picking based on form and merit and I feel some players are being extremely hard done by to the point it must be downright demoralising( Grealish, Maddison).
     
  13. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    A few players can’t be 100% so it’s a great opportunity to give them a rest and bring Grealish in.

    If any of Mount/Sancho/Barkley don’t play this weekend then Southgate might be tempted.
     
  14. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Barkley wouldn't/won't play regardless of fitness as long-term, he just doesn't seem to be in Lampard's plans, they've not even got RLC or Kante fit atm either, which will also impact his minutes in the future as he'll be competing with Jorginho and Kovacic for that number 8 role and RLC and Mount for the more advanced role. The thing is though, is that even if those 3 players are available, they clearly won't be 100% so it just seems stupid to pick and play them and risk aggravating the injury problems they do/may have. Especially when we have other options who we could try or play instead.
     
  15. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    I dont think walker has been phased out. I'm pretty sure he will be in the squad for the euros
     
  16. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    In which case it makes the selection policy even more stupid. Yes, he wasn't at his best in the first few weeks of the season, but he's been largely solid and consistent since and so surely it would've made more sense to just have stuck with him and let him continue getting games under his belt, rather than being yet another change to the squad just before the Euros.
     
  17. Toosaul

    Toosaul New Member

    Aug 28, 2011
    Grealish starts wide but he often comes central to effect the game and he does it really well. Southgate can't just suddenly compare him to all our wingers.That seems like a really weak excuse. He is obviously closer to the action and getting goals and assists in that role, but he was doing well as a midfielder before that and he didn't get selected then either. We have a more pressing need for him as a midfielder as well.
     
    sharpovic repped this.
  18. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    The other problem is that let's be honest he has very little chance of displacing the attacking/front 3 options. He's competing against two of the superstars of the side in addition to Sancho and Rashford who are also hugely talented and amongst the best young players in world football. Whereas if he uses him as a midfielder, it's going to be much easier for him to break in to the side as the competition is much weaker there.
     
    Toosaul and roverman repped this.
  19. Rabbi Keane

    Rabbi Keane Member

    Aug 13, 2003
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I think it's a matter of him not wanting to be stuck with two aging right backs, that he want one younger to be developed in the national team. Leaving Walker in competition with Trippier for one spot, and losing out at the moment.
     
  20. JRSG

    JRSG Member+

    Mar 25, 2015
    Club:
    Torquay United
    A lot of these 'inconsistencies' aren't things that he can realistically be consistent on. If he did, it'd be a nightmare.
     
  21. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    I disagree. I'm not saying that he should change the team every single game, the likes of Pickford, Maguire, Henderson, Sterling and Kane is a core of players that all start when fit. However, there is easily the scope to mix things up more than he has around that. My point is, that his inconsistent approach to selection is not only unfair on certain players but is also not making things a meritocracy. I agree that he can't vary and mix up his defence constantly so that probably explains why Gomez sees a lot less action than Barkley who's in a similar situation of not playing for his club regularly.

    However, up front and in the attacking midfield slots, there is much more scope to pick based on form as it's easier to come into the side and make an impact straight away, compared to at CB where it's all about consistency, stability and rhythm. This is why the differing treatment of Maddison and Mount but also now with Grealish and CHO really irritates me. In terms of form and impact Maddison and Grealish have more than warranted some minutes by now, yet are told that they need to "earn their place" or "they're getting closer" yet CHO and Mount were called up after just a few weeks of good form. You have to balance stability with meritocracy and for me this is a case where his thinking is slightly baffling.
     
    Toosaul and Marcho Gamgee repped this.
  22. sharpovic

    sharpovic Member+

    May 20, 2010
    Southgate 's answer about Grealish is annoying. I'd rather have an honest answer, that he needs to do more to be considered, but we're not idiots, he's nothing like CHO Sancho Rashford or Sterling. And even if they were his competition he's done more than Hudson Odoi this season.
     
  23. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    Barkley has been first choice for most of the season at Chelsea. It's only since he got injured that he dropped out of the team.
     
  24. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Statistically he has, but if you delve deeper, he only started twice in 5 games in the league after the September international break, even before his injury. I think this combined with their recent good form with Kovacic and Jorginho in midfield means it will be hard for him to get back into the team
     
  25. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Fantastic goal and assist from Rashford. Needs to work on his finishing but if he can sort it out like Sterling did then he'll become some player. I actually feel his mentality is both his best friend and worst enemy at times, sometimes he tries to pull off too much, but when the audacious things he tries do come off it's spectacular. I also feel he's the type of player that never hides and always wants to try and influence the game even if he's not quite at it.
     
    roverman repped this.

Share This Page