Empty net goal called back for offside (NCAA Women - Temple @ UConn)

Very lucky they got it right, as the AR clearly starts moving with the last defender instead of the correct offside line. To be frank, an AR in a D1 contest should know better.

an excellent reminder that the gk is sometimes neither the last defender nor the 2ld!

 

Ya that's the first thing I noticed. He does a great job tracking the defender, except he should've still been straddling midfield.

 

I have called that twice before. Same situation. GK playing up and last attacker even with the last defender. I am just thinking ...Don't pass, don't pass, Dont... Ahhh Dammit!!...

 

I was wondering something similar—hard to catch pros at a sprint from a dead stop. The fact he made the call suggests he had no confusion as to where the Os line was.

 

2nd to last defender or the ball, whichever is closer to the goal line. He went with the ball, in case that shot/pass went over the line without that player touching it.

 

I find that the ball is faster than I am.

 

Mmm I dunno- give up being able to make an accurate decision as to whether the attacker was on her own half for the sake of making a goal line decision that it is literally impossible to be in the “correct” position for on a shot that shouldn’t have been taken in the first place? That’s an abrogation of his primary responsibility and not part of instruction I’ve heard.

I’m gonna try to find the entire incident, but the tweet says After the fact they got it right. That suggests the AR made a shit sandwich for the CR. The clock stopped when it should have been running. He’s got to consider entering for the entire team because the game is not over. Golden goal, right? So if he gave the goal and then realized the error the game goes from being over to not over? Because his assistant didn’t count to two.

 

Without seeing the entirety of the incident - I'm hesitant to pass harsh judgment so easily and I would hope you do the same.

 

This guy is obviously a far more accomplished referee than I ever will be, just by virtue of being in this game, and I have made far more egregious mistakes- I was disagreeing with the possible mitigating factors, and pointing out the difficulties that came from it.

also, I would give huge kudos to the fact that they got it sorted, as that couldn’t have been easy. I wonder if the 4O, who would have been well positioned to see the whole thing, didn’t help out, as the center was working back from quite deep in the other end.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the moment of the freeze frame photo above. That is what I hate about VAR's "ability" to properly judge offside when it is that close. The video above is hard to blow up and freeze, but the moment the ball is played seems a tad earlier, but the head and shoulder of the attacker seems to be just across half...

 

Ummm it's not close at all that "line" is the last defender, the 2LD is actually 7 yrds behind the play. Now if you are questioning whether she was past the 50 when the ball was kicked, I think that is pretty obvious from the pic.

 

He’s just questioning if the picture shown is actually taken at the correct point in time to judge if the player is in the opponents half of the field when the ball is played, or if the ball was played slightly earlier.

 

Since the ball is still on her teammates foot, I assume it hadn't been played. She can only be further than that point. She is a yard past the 50 at that time. Even my old eyes could call that one.

 

Sounds like from your two posts you didn't look at the video. My point is that it is so hard to judge the time the ball is first touched. It seems like the still photo being shown is a few frames after the time of first contact with the ball.

That is one of my biggest beefs with VAR and offside calls that are millimeter judgement calls. I've agreed with others stating the line of error that is used for the VAR booth needs to be bigger, if the possibly offside player is in there, stick with the call on the field.

 

The quality of that video does make it hard to see exactly when the ball was played from still images, but watching the live play makes it look like the attacker was closer to the forward 45 than the 50 when the ball is played.

 

That isn't he time of judgment. First contact is the time of judgment, which may well be a frame earlier. The first contact standard was added when it was apparent that VAR could only work at all if the moment of a play/touch was more precisely defined.

 

I don't know what you all are saying or seeing I guess. I did watch the video and although small and I do have my cheaters on, when the player plays the ball ahead to the girl who was offside, that paler was between the 50 and the 45 of the defending teams side.

socal, what I was saying (and not very well) is that even in that still photo with the ball looking like it is still on the teammates foot (even if it is just after she finally released it the player is still off by a yard in that photo) The only line to look at is at midfield, line is already drawn on the field and to me it seems really obvious.

I understand the problem Soccer Dad has with the current offside issue with FPS and what to judge as the time to make the judgement for what is offside and not, but this doesn't seem to be a hair splitting decision IMHO.

 

The point being made is that the offside rule is now that you judge offside at the moment the passing player first touches the ball for the pass, not when the ball leaves the passer's foot.

So your statement that since hte ball may not have left the foot in the still image, which means the offside attacker could only be more over the line when the ball does leave the foot, is irrelevant. If the ball is on the foot in the still image, the offside decision point has already passed. We would need to back up the still image to the point where the ball first touched the foot and see if the attacker was over the midfield stripe yet.

All that said, I don't know if the change to the offside rule only applies when VAR is available or not.

 

Technically, of course it applies. But human perception has it's limitations!

 

That's good. I'll be sure to use that next time I find myself on a HS dual explaining an onside call to an unhappy coach.

"Coach, I agree with you that when the ball left his teammate's foot, that striker was in an offside position. But at the start of the kick, at the moment the passer's foot first touched the ball, the striker was onside. No offside, good goal."

 

The only comment I will ever make to a coach complaining about an offside call in a dual is "Coach, if you want me to focus only on offside, you'll need to get your AD to pay for a third official."