I personally don't think we played a bad game. We created more opportunities than Mexico and we rightfully deserved to leave with a tie at the very least. It was a very even match, but I'd say the most dangerous opportunities were created by us, yet we did not take advantage of them to put ourselves ahead. I think Quinteros' idea of "high pressure" slowly flowed into the minds of our players until they started to understand it. You could tell the difference in pressure of the 1st half and the 2nd. Quinteros' idea seems like it slowly came across as the game progressed which is good. It's obvious we weren't going to see everything sink in 100%, but it'll gradually happen with more games. Now i'll comment on the good and the bad. The bad IMO were Erazo's huge mistake when he gave away the ball to Chicharito, Jeff Montero being a ghost on the field today, Caicedo not being fit for this system, and Dominguez's kicks not being effective. I think the system of playing is going to take a while to understand. The transition is bigger than some of you may think. Quinteros is all about high pressure, fast break aways, quick touches, and being able to run up and down the field into position at all times. It's going to take a little more time. The good sign is that the players seem to have understood what Quinteros wants as the game today progressed. Eventually they'll fully grasp the concept. We played an entirely different style of playing with Rueda for 4 years. These guys aren't used to the constant attacking and pressuring that Quinteros will want from them. Let's be patient. The positive things to look at are Antonio, Paredes, Noboa, and most importantly the two new faces into the line up that I personally thought were good which are Miller Bolanos and Arturo Mina. I think both those players made it clear that they are going to make their way into the starting 11. Miller created the most danger in the attack. Whoever said he was a disappointment is off. Just b/c he didn't score doesn't mean he disappointed. He doesn't have to score every game (let alone his debut) to be considered a good player. Miller created 2 goal scoring chances for himself and missed the penalty which has no excuse, but I personally think that he gave lots of great assists that would've ended up behind the net if they were finished correctly. It happens....Enner not being up front made it difficult for us. We are VERY dependent on him when it comes to scoring. And until Quinteros syle of playing is fully understood by our guys, it will remain that way. Once Montero, Antonio, Enner, Miller and the rest of the guys sync into what Quinteros wants, then they'll all start scoring or AT LEAST start being more effective when they're in front of goal. You can tell there were certain instances in the game where the Emelec style of playing kicked in. The plays where Miller was involved, especially with his wall passing. And even Angel Mena's play when the penalty was caused. Mena didn't do bad either when he came in. He had a few moments where he created danger. Anyway, I could tell that Antonio, Paredes, Noboa, Arturo Mina, and Miller have a better feel for the concept that Quinteros has in mind. You can tell they are grasping it. The rest of the guys need more work. I personally think Walter played well, he's another player who has a clear vision of how to play in this system. I just heard Quinteros speak this morning and he is saying exactly what I am. He saw that certain players grasped the concept of how to play the "high pressure" game in specific moments of the first and second half. He is pleased with Mina and Miller's performances which I agree with as well. And like he says, it's going to take time. He said the same exact thing I've been telling you guys....we haven't been used to this style of playing. Our style the last 15 years has been completely different and the transition is going to take a few more games. Whether we chose Bauza or Quinteros or any other coach that wasn't al estilo colombiano, there was/is bound to be a waiting period until our players adapt to this system and we see the results that we imagine. I agree with Quinteros....for right now results don't matter. The key is to have the players grasp the concept and for the communication to gradually improve, for tactics to be understood, etc. Forget the results for now guys....b/c that's not the focus for now. Reality is Quinteros came in late and he has little time to consolidate this team. I don't doubt that he'll end up doing it, but let's not just think about results. The main focus in this transition is for our guys to adapt to his system of playing. Once that step is taken, we'll start seeing better results. I had a feeling he was going to miss it, yet I've only seen him miss a penalty once since he's been in Emelec. He's very effective when taking them. The pressure got to him.
The good things I saw.... #1 Miller Bolanos- I think he had a good debut. He missed two shots on goal that were good blocks from Corona and a penalty. But his collective playing and the assists he put into the box created danger. He is without a doubt going to become a fundamental player from here on out. Whoever thinks Miller did bad, I'd go back and look at the passes this kid made that created danger and how involved he was in key moments on the attack. He may not have been a superstar yesterday, yet he was the player who had the highest possibilities to score. Unfortunately, the ball didn't go in. It happens. Enner didn't come in as a star when he started on the NT. It gradually happened and I can assure you that's what will happen with Miller. If anything I think Miller's first game was possibly equivalent to Enner's debut or even slightly better. 7/10 for him. #2 Arturo Mina- I think he had a great debut. Few errors and he has much more solvent than Erazo was on defense. Very good in the aerial game and just about impeccable I'd say. I think if he can have a few more performances like this, the position is his from here on out. He doesn't have much competition and he's met expectations in my book. Personally I'm pleased to say he didn't disappoint me one bit. 7/10 #3 Antonio Valencia- The most important player on the attack. He attacked, he defended well. He stopped like 2 or 3 counter attacks by positioning himself in the defensive line correctly. Whenever we'd take a corner, Antonio would pull back and cover the defensive line (like he does in Manchester) and he recovered two counters from what I remember. Very important on the attack with JC Paredes. What I noticed is that both him and Paredes play the role Quinteros want them to. Just like Narvaez-Mena, Narvaez-Burbano play in Emelec. One player moves in diagonally and the other takes the wing, but neither one necessarily is glued to the wing like before. There's more freedom for both these guys when moving forward. We didn't have that before. With Rueda these guys were glued to the wings. Anyway, Antonio IMO may not be as fast as before but yesterday he did show that he has enough speed to still play on the wing although for my liking I would like to see him as a center mid. But without a doubt he still creates danger on the wing and it was seen yesterday as he was the most important player on the attack. 8/10 #4 Cristian Noboa- I don't know about you guys, but I really liked how Noboa played. Estaba enchufado. And although there were some instances where he could make better decisions with his passing (there was once instance where Antonio bitched at him for not passing the ball when he was wide open) I think he's grasping the concept very well. I think he's a step ahead of the rest in understanding what Quinteros wants when it comes to anticipating and keeping ball possession, as well as soltando la pelota rapido to transition into the attack. I think it will strengthen him to have a faster player by his side to play in this system where high pressure is vital since he isn't so fast himself. That's why Antonio would be ideal IMO. In Emelec you have Pedro and Lastra (both aren't fast, but they are great w/ their anticipation), but they'd both only be temporary solutions for the NT. We need someone young. And that's where Gruezo comes into play....but the fact that he can't beat Lastra out of the starting 11 worries me. It seems like Gruezo no esta listo para estos trotes todavia. His speed would prove to be important in this system. Cevallos and Intriago would be great options but they must first consolidate themselves in LDUQ before they make the step here. Other than that we don't have much. Let's see how Alex Bolanos continues to do in Olimpo. He played a full game yesterday and has been getting minutes as a starter in argentina. He's fast, physical, and can sometimes even project himself forward if needed. That would be a great temporary solution as well. It's either Lastra, Pedro, or Alex Bolanos if it's not Antonio. Gruezo seems to not be ready. Personally, I think Lastra was acceptable....nada del otro mundo. And I want to say one thing about Dominguez.....with Quinteros as coach he needs to learn how to anticipate better (becoming the last defender on the pitch). Sometimes he will have to play tipo libero like Dreer does in Emelec. This also means he must improve his game playing with his feet. AND it also means he has to improve his saques. Dreer is the best keeper in Ecuador when it comes to his kicks. It's been fundamental in Emelec's counters when he launches the ball up front b/c he's VERY accurate with here he launches the ball. That's something Dominguez did terribly with yesterday and it's where Dreer shines. It may not seem to important to some people, but it's KEY in Quinteros' game. Just wanted to point that out. Besides that Dida did a great job.
I'm not convinced by anything I saw last night. I hear a lot of people saying that "we played well" and "we deserved better". The fact is we didn't put it in the net, and if Mexico were more composed they could have scored a couple more. Every single game under Vizuete was a better performance than last night. And every single result was better. Only Brazil beat us 1-0, and we made Brazil sweat for it. I said when I saw the call up that it looked like our team from the World Cup. And of course it was exactly that, except for Miller instead of Enner, Lastra instead of Gruezo, and Mina instead of Achilier. Hardly an upgrade in any of those positions. And of course, the result was the same. Missing chances and making key defensive mistakes leading to goals. I understand this is a process. But I'm still disappointed because I was excited by the previous process under Vizuete, where we were playing dynamic and dangerous futbol and giving experience to young players. Vizuete played Cazares, Ibarra, Sornoza, Gruezo, Canga, Gonzalez. These guys are the future, and Quinteros didn't even call them up!! Yes, some of these guys are adapting to their clubs in foreign leagues - but that doesn't make them worse than players who are getting lots of playing time in Ecuador. Finally, last night I wanted to tear my eyeballs out every time Caicedo got near the ball. I repeat - I don't want him near the NT until he goes on a consistent run of scoring at club level. He is slow and utterly useless because he doesn't run or jump. Jaime Ayovi can't stop scoring in Argentina, Joffre Guerron is a hero for Tigres, and Michael Arroyo is struggling a bit at America but that is a very demanding team. That's 3 guys I would rather have up front assuming Enner is injured. Overall I'm not happy. Yesterday was an old team with old players. Quinteros is trying to teach a bunch of old dogs new tricks. We need to continue that generational shift because qualifiers are starting later this year and if we try to show up with the Rueda starting 11 and just tell them to press the ball higher, a fast and efficient team like Chile will put 5 against us. We got lucky against Mexico.
thats why i say giving him as many small friendlies as we can is the best we can do for him and our team i dont know why he stuck around with emelec for so long but he should have started working with the nt a lot sooner. he needs to work a lot more with our younger players as well and he better take advantage of that come our games vs panama and those games are the ones to really judge what he can do no reason to not win by goliada. i think quinteros put up a 4-4-2 to fit in caicedo properly but he cant just pair up with just anyone he has that issue in espanol as well there are some players he will have no chemistry with. quinteros needs to make proper changes not too late and not too early one thing i hated about rueda was that he didnt make changes when needed and i simply hated to see quinteros do the same. quinteros cant rely on just miller to be his main enganche, cazares should have been included to the squad no reason to leave him out i personaly would have called arroyo as well and of course guerron even tho they are old they are experienced and more than worth being part of our squad. im not going to go in who does better but vizuete was always able to do a lot more with a lot less and in little amount of time as well. quinteros needs to learn and consolidate him self quick copa america should be the time for that.
I am all for the generational shift. The problem is the players you mentioned aren't in their best moment. Canga doesn't play in Liga although there's no doubt in the quality he has and the potential behind it. Gonzalez plays decently well in Leones Negros and he's always a starter, but he's just not the Gonzalez from Independiente yet. I don't doubt he'll continue progressing, the problem is that right NOW he's not better than Mena, Miller, Antonio, Montero, or even Fidel. Sornoza went to Pachuca and he has an assist every now and then, but he almost never finishes a 90 minute game and his performances are inconsistent. Es medio lagunero en Pachuca. Cristian Penilla is a great player and one of my favorite that went to Mexico but for one reason or another he hasn't cut it there. There's no one on the list now that I would take out to include him. Ibarra hasn't progressed in his career the last 2 years and it looks like he hit the ceiling. He has had an irregular year in Vitesse and although he did recover his starting spot after December, he still hasn't managed to stay 100% healthy and I think he had a recent injured which through him a bit off course and he hasn't been playing 90 mins anymore. And Gruezo doesn't play at all lately in Stuttgart....the fact that Lastra (a 30 year old player who is in a good moment, but has no NT experience) is starting over him says it all. He's STILL not ready. And this isn't the first coach to bench him. Rueda did it, Vizuete did it, and now Quinteros. What does that tell you? Por algo ha de ser. Now when you mention Juan Cazares, that's another deal. I completely agree with you here. I think Cazares is a player that should undoubtedly be on the NT. Es jugador de seleccion. We could even play both him and Miller. I've said it before, Miller-Cazares-Montero could be the trident with Antonio and Noboa holding the mid. And Joao Rojas needs to please stay far away from a call up. That kid hit the ceiling a LONG time ago. Almost 3 years ago. No dara mas de eso. As far as Felipe, I agree with you here. Technically he has the skill to play how Quinteros would like, but physically he can't handle it. He's too heavy and slow for the type of futbol that this coach demands. It isn't for him...at least not as a starter. As a sub, he'll do. But in the starting 11 no way in hell. He can't handle the work rate Quinteros will want. Even Jaime would fit in better IMO b/c he's played in teams and leagues that play that type of futbol. Sampaoli's Emelec, for example. But Felipe being a starter again? yeah, right. And as far as Michael Arroyo- If he wouldn't have been injured all season, I would be agreeing with you, but right now he's just getting back in his groove and with the players we have on this list it was going to be tough for him to claim a spot (Mena and Fidel are in a better moment than him, ni hablar del resto). The only player he could take off the list was Rojas. The same goes for Guerron....although he got injured recently, he's been one of the best players in the mexican league AND the Libertadores lately. He's in a fantastic moment and he deserved to be on the NT without a doubt. The problem isn't Guerron and Quinteros not calling him up. The problem goes deep with Chiri and the FEF not seeing eye to eye with him.
I'm going to give Quinteros the benefit of the doubt for this game but there are some things he needs to work on 1) The changes: his subs were horrible and the timing of them even worse, in the second half Mexico put in about 4 players adding fresh legs every 7-10 minutes whereas Quinteros switched Montero before half and put in Rojas and Martinez 20 minutes before the end to little to late. 2) Faith in "his boys": Lastra should have been subbed out after the second half for Gruezo or put Valencia there, Mena didn't do much i think Ibarra or Martinez could have done much much more, Bolanos didn't deserve the full 90 minutes Jaime should have came on, also like barcelonista said was it okay to let miller take the penalty, Walters 100th game couldve been special, Caicedo as well could have taken it. 3) Formation: 4-4-2 although it is our trademark formation when Vizuete used the 4-2-3-1 we got a lot more from it and i think Quinteros would too.
We didn't play a 4-4-2 the entire game. It started off that way and then it varied. Especially when Mena and Martinez were on the field it was no longer a 4-4-2.
B9 my friend I could not disagree more and allow me to say why, Respectfully dude, what game did we watch? if you say that a goleador lost a very clear chance to score in the 2nd minute and then missed a penalty kick and call it a good game? I have to disagree, on top of that let me ask you, did he ever win a one on one against a defender? draw a foul ? throw a good cross? beat a defender on speed alone? during the first 2o minutes of the second half, he was no where to be seen? I will accept that he gave a few good passes but if thats the bar we are using then Caicedo had an amazing game since it was his pass that put Bolanos on a scoring position, he also participated on the foul, now I am not saying Caicedo played well, he was pretty bad, my point is Bolanos is not a 20 year old kid, he's a consolidated player that even though it's his debut I do not think it's too much to ask to score clear chances. Regarding Mena, to me his speed is his biggest advantage, I was dissapointed when Guardado covered him extremely well, also his Physica shape puts him at a disadvantage, Mena spent a long time on the floor last night and it's hard not to come down on the guy hard when he takes a decently placed shot and he hits it all the way to the corner flag, Now, you are totally right, it was the first game and Quintero's system will take a long time, for better or worse players like Casares and Bolanos will be a huge part of that system
that were the difference between club and nt team player affected them. ill have to admit miller did better than i expected i though he was going to be lost on the field or be beaten physically ect but he did ok for his first game. him missing those chances most of our experienced goliadores miss chances like that as well we dont have solid finishers. him and felipe didn't make the best match up front and quinteros made the 4-4-2 adjustment to fit him in but he showed a glimpse of what he can do on the nt. the comentators said he has been a pesadilla to the mexican defense and the penalty i blame quinteros for letting him he put to much trust and confidence into him. mena i was always nervous about him transitioning to the nt which is why i did not want him to start no matter how well he does in emelec he cant compete with other player physically at all he should only be a sub until he bulks up but he is 27 already and that not going to happen soon.
after this game it hard to say what the next line up should be who should start and where players should go
After the game last night and all these comments, I'm starting to get a growing sense of doubt. I understand the idea of appointing Quinteros is to bring the style of Emelec to the NT. But I can barely think of anything more different than coaching one of the biggest, richest teams in Ecuador to coaching a team that is not even one of the biggest in the continent. The whole mentality has to change. I'm not convinced that pressing opponents high up the field will work for Ecuador. That's what Brazil did against Germany. You can do that when your players are better at ball possession than the opponent, especially in midfield and defense. It's one thing for Emelec to do that against Mushuc Runa, another thing for Ecuador to do that against other South American national teams. Last night I saw that happening in the first 20 minutes which was great and we almost scored twice. ALMOST is the key word. We didn't and then Lastra, Mina and Erazo messed up in the back and unfortunately Chicharito gave Miller a lesson in scoring goals. That's why high pressing won't work for us - we don't have the technical skill to do it. I believe Miller has a role on the NT, but I was thinking as more of an enganche than a number 11. But yesterday it seemed the entire team was set up around him like it usually is in Emelec. That was a huge mistake, especially when you consider Miller has no NT experience. There's no guarantee he'll ever make it at this level, so why are we setting up the team around him? Who is he to take the penalties ahead of Caicedo or Walter? $hit - Noboa scored a penalty to beat Barcelona of Spain in the Champions League a few years back…and he doesn't even take our penalties!! So at this point I think it's important that Quinteros realize he's not coaching Emelec anymore. This is very different and much more challenging, because we can't buy players, we have to make the best of what we have. The squad had no players from Barcelona. I can't remember in my history of watching the NT that we had not a single Barcelona player. We have to select the best players, and most importantly, begin the transition to a new generation of players that will lead us to the next World Cup.
I could not agree with you more on this. On the penalty i think it showed Quinteros had more trust in Miller than a proven penalty taker like Caicedo which concerned me. Also what were the players mainly Caicedo, Walter, and Tono thinking i'd expect one of them to step up with authority to take it or say "no let Caicedo or Walter take it" i understand they followed what Quinteros said but come on i'd think our penalty taker, captain, and face of the team could have changed his mind easily or just said no. I wouldn't have mind if we were up a goal or two or facing a weaker team which we could've beaten even when down a goal but come on its Mexico that equaliser could've changed the game and it's these types of decision that could cost us. Be it that it was a friendly but if we had no Enner like today and this was a pk deciding whether we went to the wc, advance from group stage, or a 90th minute pk in elimination rounds of a tournament they would have had his head for it.
Guys it's the first game lol. The coach hardly had time to study players, he called the people he knew and the best that we have playing outside of Ecuador. Quinteros needs more games and hands on with the NT before he can start calling players from Barcelona and others. He doesn't know those teams players well and they aren't really don't anything good anyways at this time. So come on lol. There is talent out there though IMO and I think Quintero's has done a good job at testing younger players in Emelec. I don't doubt that he'll test younger players soon when he has a chance to study them. He has been good at bringing young players up. I think for sure it was an eye opener for Miller and others that are new to the NT. I'm sure they realized by now that this isn't going to be a walk in the park. They aren't facing low caliber players and/or have low caliber teammates. They are dealing with teammates that are succeding in Europe and Mexico. I'm sure after these two games they will grow and learn a lot. I also do think Ecuador has what it takes to pressure up top. I also think we have the players to hold the ball and pass it around. I have no doubt we can make this change and succeed. I'm tired of watching Ecuador play all defensive Colombian style. No one plays like this anymore. Times are changing. The U17 has showed us that it can be done and we can be successful at it. We are just missing few key pieces but we can get there. This transition will also be extremely important later on. The U17 and other kids play this way now. They don't play defensively. They have become an attacking and possession team. We NEED this transition to happen and it's better now than later. Trust me that this transition will pay itself off.
We'll be missing Montero against Argentina and they will be playing Messi and our XI is hinted to be Dominguez; Paredes, Mina (Achilier), Erazo, Ayovi; Valencia, Noboa, Lastra (Larrea), Mena; Bolanos y Caicedo.
futbolecuador said this might be the line up: Alexander Domínguez; Juan Carlos Paredes, Gabriel Achilier, Frickson Erazo y Walter Ayoví; Antonio Valencia, Cristhian Noboa, Carlos Gruezo y Fidel Martínez; Miller Bolaños y Felipe Caicedo.
Interesting fact of the day Argentina have never beaten Ecuador in a friendly 1989: Draw 2:2 1994: Win 1:0 2011: Draw 2:2 2013: Draw 0:0