ECNL ongoing debate......

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Soccerhunter, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    Given the follow-up interview that she gave a few days ago, she comes across as intelligent, thoughtful, and committed to upgrading the coaches as well as training the players. Some of the phrasing she used in the interview seemed to flow from her 8 years of international experience working as a national development instructor in the Netherlands and as a FIFA instructor more widely.

    One thing for sure, she has an extensive, varied, and impressive 25 year background in soccer coaching and playing. I would doubt that there would be many others out there who are more suited and qualified for this job. To wit:
    • Two time All American player in college.
    • U.S. Soccer: A License and National Girls TC Staff Coach
    • FIFA Women’s Football Instructor (Taught coaching courses for national associations in Europe)
    • 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup Technical Study Group
    • 2016 Olympic Games - Technical Scouting SAFA
    • 2016 FIFA Women’s U-17 World Cup Technical Study Group
    • Girls Club Director in U.S. 10+ years
    • 8 years in the Technical Department of the KNVB (Netherlands)
    • Head Division I College Coach (Organized the LSU women's program in 1995)
    • 2008 US Youth Soccer National Competitive Girls Coach of the Year
    • 2013 North Region NSCAA Youth Girls Coach of the Year
    If she is given the support she needs, she certainly seems qualified to do a great job.
     
    sXeWesley and Kurt Kline repped this.
  2. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
  3. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Soccerhunter repped this.
  4. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    sXeWesley repped this.
  5. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    Yes the ECNL is about to lose its few very top players. But many of the next tier down without NT aspirations are choosing to stay in the ECNL and play high school. Some ECNL clubs without DA are keeping their top players. I think this was not anticipated by the USSF. My kid's team has kept the top players and because of the combined age groups is filling in with the second birth year. They should remain very competitive especially with the limited sub rules. We are worried though that the competition will be inconsistent. Just when the ECNL was truly capturing the vast majority of the top players, there will again be dilution. I am hearing that the new teams formed from non ECNL base clubs are struggling. For example, the Spirit may have trouble fielding competitive teams despite their "signing" unless the best Bethesda/MU/RU kids also leave ECNL.

    We know a new program in our area. They were not really a competitive girls club before the DA and will have trouble attracting solid enough players to compete with the more established top tier clubs. That game though will offer PT and starts to some kids who might see minimal minutes in more competitive games. Unfortunately I think these less than competitive games will be common. Not sure though how this situation fits the "fewer more meaningful games" mission of the USSF DA. I see a lot of blow outs and fewer "meaningful" games in this format when compared to the ECNL. Hoping my kid's club can score some friendlies with boys teams and ECNL teams because I am seeing probably 5 competitive games in her division. New teams will struggle I think.GD of +/- 50 may be pretty common.

    Regarding High School. My kid hates it. Didn't play in ninth grade instead choosing to play on a boys team in the fall. Other kids love it. They seem to be the majority of the players in the middle of my kids ECNL roster.
     
  6. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Super disapointed with things in our area so far. Nothing has changed with the dividing lines beween ECNL and Timbers affiliated clubs, Timbers/Thorns not doing anything at all to capitalize on/educate families and players about this, same coaches, same stale philosophy, same confusing lack of structure and organization, etc.

    The more things change...
     
  7. Clementwllms

    Clementwllms New Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    May 22, 2017
    Silver Spring, MD
    I think this is a very good assessment. I'm not sure many middle tier non-national team prospect girls will give up playing high school soccer to play in the DA. I feel as though if someone knows they're not a future pro, they won't throw away high school soccer to switch to what is not likely to be a much superior league quality wise. Unless the USSF decides to take that 100 mil surplus and heavily subsidize DA programs, I think the decision won't be too difficult for the non-upper echelon players, the very players the DA needs to challenge those top tier players.
     
  8. juve 3

    juve 3 New Member

    Juventus
    United States
    May 30, 2017
    Looks like my Daughter is willing to give up HS and play DA. She is already committed to a Pac 12 School and has fun in HS but its not a must for her. I wouldnt say she is a Top Player and she has 0 NT experience. But then again her situation may be different as she plays on a pretty good So Cal team about to try for a 3rd Straight ECNL Championship. So because her team is so Tight I think she will choose to stay with her team as they Transition to DA. But Maybe if her team wasn't very good she might choose to play ECNL instead. Then again we have many choices in So Cal with all the DA and ECNL clubs nearby.
     
  9. StrikerMom

    StrikerMom Member

    Sep 25, 2014
    Does the DA let the players play a short between season futsal comp? Or be on the school track team?

    Or is it strictly DA only - no other sports?
     
  10. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    My understanding is that the whole point of emphasizing development is that they do not want to sacrifice four months out of the year to high school soccer when they could be making valuable use of that time in structured organized training (as opposed to potentially reinforcing bad habits at high school against weak competition.)

    I believe that I have read that if a girl really wants to play high school, the that, of course, would be her choice, but returning to the DA side the next season would be up to the local DA coaches at the club who would potentially have to deal with her having fallen behind her peers while absent in terms of moving forward with a structured development curriculum. Certainly trying to do both at the same time would be a non-starter as it would risk over training and potential injury.

    I don't think that running track would be as much of a problem, but my take was that that would be negotiated with the coaches.

    But there may also be exceptions depending on the exact HS season and the quality of the HS program. For example, while most HS trams are pretty weak and poorly coached from a technical point of view, there are pockets across the country where the quality HS play can be quite good. (eg in some suburban areas with very strong clubs, there may be a few high schools where good club players are concentrated and so there will be some good matches through out the season.)
     
  11. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  12. oldmangrumpus

    oldmangrumpus Member

    Apr 13, 2015
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I agree that DA has not helped themselves with their stance on HS participation. But the article is not entirely correct. Our high school fees two years ago was close to $1200 (I believe this year's was $1500 including "fund raising"). Yes, that included a travel trip, but that was nestled in between ECNL events (that also cost a pretty penny in travel and hotels).

    Long story short: Girls DA was NEVER needed. ECNL was working, and working well. HS is just that, HS. It gets people that might not otherwise play the sport, involved. But it is not top tier training by a long shot.
     
  13. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    I agree: The main issue I see with the Girls DA is that I don't think there is need for it.
     
  14. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    The problem with the DA model is that a lot of kids go in with dreams of becoming a pro or NT member--and for a very high percentage of them that is not going to happen; they put huge amount of time, effort, money and emotion into it, dream of glory--and their hopes are dashed. This has certainly been the case with boys in Europe and, I assume, South America too. Some are in DA for years, many do not go to college, and then are dropped by the club at some point because they are not good enough. Some may end up playing in some minor pro league for little money; others just stop playing and try to find work. Indeed, there's been a lot of talk about how the system leaves a lot of young men shattered and in poor shape to get on with their lives after being rejected, and the need for the pro clubs to devote more resources to assisting those young men who've been dropped to cope with the disappointment and adjust to the real world again. That may not be a problem with our young women, assuming most continue on to college. The college path is what's best about our women's system. And it's not like the U.S. is in dire need of help: While some complain a lot about the U.S. coaching and playing style, etc., we are the big dog in women's soccer.
     
  15. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    #641 chch, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018

    all of which is exactly why the GDA was a terrible idea. If USSF wanted to mandate ECNL do 4 days a week they could have done that by saying no NT callups if ECNL doesn't do it. (many ECNL clubs did 4 days already). Instead GDA seems like a ton of restrictions (limited substitutions, no outside games for players looking for more minutes, no high school). GDA did ZERO to make US soccer more affordable or improve "the game" exposure in the US in any way at all. I don't think the girls side wants "equality" with boys DA in terms of restrictions without the funding of MLS. The frickin women's pro team in Boston folded last year - my big fear is USSF will do to women's soccer what it did to men's.
     
  16. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    I hope this is a private high school. My kids have done multiple sports including an annual beach retreat (different sport) and the only cost was for the overnight at the beach was cheap housing, they scrimmaged area teams for free. Can't imagine any public in the US charges that. Soccer at public high (with club coaches as assistants) cost Zero in our area.
     
  17. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is the sports participation fee information for Portland (Oregon) public schools:

    PARTICIPATION FEES
    PIL Sponsored Sports

    - $200 per sport per student.

    - There is a two fee cap per student. (i.e. if a student plays a fall and winter PIL sport, the spring sport fee is waived)

    -There is a four fee family cap per year per family.

    -For students on the Federal Free/Reduced Lunch program, the athletic fee is $35 per sport.

    The PIL WANTS all students to be able to participate in a sport if eligible. If needed, please contact the Athletic Department at your school to discuss athletic fees.
    Some Oregon public high school teams (not necessarily Portland) schedule "pre-season" trips to other states. For those, I'm pretty sure the teams depend on fund-raising and additional player family contributions. I don't think this is unusual.

     
  18. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    .
    if you don't mind me asking, what school or in what state did your kid attend? In the state my girl plays it's totally free, cept maybe the once a year summer camp($150) & over the course of several years for kits($200) but that included the perks, with school log's on hoodies & overalls. My girl's team made it twice to state's championship, both times they got treated by the school to an overnite stay at the Hilton.

    The article was part, trying to make soccer appeal to the masses, rather than the often used term "pay to play". So definitely focusing doubt I alone on a 3 month HS season will make them better players(without the more year round ECNL/select)/ The better high school teams in our area are coached by select coaches(as select shut down for HS season)/. Some parents pay a transfer fee(something like the $1500 you indicated) but that would be to get them to a better school for a variety of reasons(not just soccer).

    The author of the article might of been influenced by the apparent popularity of high school soccer in Japan
    https://www.facebook.com/the18soccer/videos/vb.554819864617026/1466270666805270/?type=2&theater
     
  19. L. O'Neill

    L. O'Neill New Member

    Apr 6, 2014
    Hello, a little off topic here but I’m trying to find out when the 2019 ECNL Sanford dates will be. Does anyone here know? Thanks in advance.
     
  20. StrikerMom

    StrikerMom Member

    Sep 25, 2014

    The above restrictions are the norm around the world for elite players.
     
  21. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    what's your point? the uniforms for the local clubs are more than 200$. Also, not all states are oregon, in NC there is no cost to play high school soccer except maybe buying your own socks. And most public school soccer teams don't do out of state travel ever.
     
  22. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    I know that, how does that benefit a 14 year old on a roster of 22 in development academy. My point is GDA and DA rules have no benefit for 99% of its players that will never get a national team call up; meanwhile fewer minutes for other players who can't even play in non-league games to get more time. The top GDA team in my area with all of them committed to D1 has 3 kids that have ever had any NT call ups. This is part of the point GDA is trying to use delusional parents paying for it to subsidize the 5-10 players across all club ages that may get called into camp. This financial model will not work over time. Since the cannon fodder parents are essentially subsidizing the <1% in GDA. IF USSF soccer wants to pay for it all be my guest.
     
  23. oldmangrumpus

    oldmangrumpus Member

    Apr 13, 2015
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Public high school in metro Atlanta. Per my wife, standard fees throughout the region are $600-$700 per season plus $500 in fundraising. You can sell raffle tickets or other items to get this $500 but it is due either way. Finally, depending on trip, there is slight extra fee for travel. Point is, it ain’t cheap. :)
     
  24. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You must live in an area that the public schools are well supported by the community and you have tax levies that are passed. Every state has a different way in which public schools are funded but participation fees are the norm in a lot of areas. Consider yourself fortunate.

    When my kids played HS sports the fees were not nearly as steep as those that oldmangrumpus cited but were usually a couple hundred. Some areas around us are more and some have no fees at all. Most athletic teams do some sort of an out-of-state trip or travel of some sort but depending on the sport, parents really didn't need to pay much of anything at all. Probably just some pocket money for the kids. Most athletic teams would have events that acted as fundraisers and required minimal work from the kids. Regardless, it was a lot less than the costs associated with the club teams.

    I'm not trying to be snarky but why not contact the league and ask someone there? I've contacted them before with mundane issues of dates, etc, and they've gotten back pretty quickly. There is a contact form on the web page. Here's the link to it:

    http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/contact-page/

    And why is it so important that we follow what all of the other players around the world do? The GDA is too restrictive. Kids would like to play HS soccer. The big schools from around where we live field teams that are very competitive. The teams weren't as competitive as my kids' ECNL or NL/MRL teams but they were composed of players from those clubs. Most of the better HS teams had a roster filled with kids that played on teams that played at a high level - ECNL, NL/MRL, etc. The teams were not bad teams and the kids had a lot of fun playing in front of classmates, the community, against rival schools, etc. HS ball was always a welcomed break from club ball.

    Also, what percentage, exactly, will be on any sort of a National Team or even in an NT pool? A very small number. The vast majority of kids that play high level club ball are doing so because they would like to play in a competitive collegiate atmosphere.- not any sort of YNT, YNT pool, or as a professional in the future.

    I just don't see any sort of an advantage for the GDA and fail to see it as an improvement over the ECNL or National League, or even premier regional leagues.
     

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