News: Dutch players at home and abroad worthy to be tracked in connection with the Dutch NT - Part 4

Yes I do know it is Van de Looi making the call. I would have to think there would be multiple people from the KNVB at the meeting. With Van de Looi leading the way it seems that is where they want Dest to start his Oranje career with the under 21s and then outline a plan for him in the long run

 

Obviously in an ideal world we could observe Dest for a longer period of time before even having to have this conversation, same as Ihatteren. But that is not the world we live in. The problem I have is that the KNVB tries to do things properly, they don't want to call up a player until he has really proven he has a genuine long-term future in Oranje. I can appreciate that they don't just want to cap-lock a player, but that is exactly what all the other countries are doing. Why should we not do it? Other countries are taking advantage of us by capping our players as soon as possible (look at Ihatteren, Kokcu, Dest) simply to steal them away. We need to stop being so 'proper' and get involved and cap these players with huge potential to ensure their future for Oranje. If they end up not being good enough for Oranje and lose their chance to play for Morocco/Turkey/USA, etc.... well that's too bad. Now they're like every other Dutch national who only has one team they can come out for and dreams/works to be good enough to get called up for an end tournament! It is an honor to be able to represent your national team at the highest level, not something every player achieves. The players still have the choice themselves to wait if they aren't certain, but at least we're giving them the option which they aren't getting at the moment. Now it's other teams offering international caps vs KNVB offering nothing. Why not give Ihattaren a chance for the next internationals? He's on fire at the moment.

With that being said I think the situation is hopeless with Dest. At least in his case he played for the young USA teams so like Mazraoui I can respect his decision. Can't say the same for Kokcu who captained our youth teams.

 

He declined both the calls from Morocco (for a capping match) and the Young Orange call from the KNVB, with the message he needs to think about it. The KNVB is doing what they can. You can't drag them onto the pitch can you?

 

Well, that plan is simple. Start kicking ass and in two years you might be in the 23 list.

He should bear in mind he has several players in front of him he has to pass in the process. After injuries both Karsdorp and Haps are coming back into form and both in form are serious Orange left and right back options.

 

Yes however there is a substantially different power to being called up for the senior team vs being called up for the Jong oranje team. Not really advocating him being called up to the senior team yet, since he's just gotten started for PSV, but should be keep this form up then for the next international period I definitely would, even if it is slightly premature.

I also really wonder if the KNVB is doing everything they can. Spell it out for Ihattaren, this team has enormous potential, can potentially win a world cup and he may be an integral missing piece to that team. Sometimes a bit of flattery goes a long way with these kind of kids, and I feel like that just isn't something the Dutch do. If I was Koeman I would also call up Van Bommel and ask him to congratulate Malen in front of the team and give him a bit of a spotlight for 5 minutes at the next PSV training to talk about how his debut felt. That would certainly get Ihattaren thinking about how that would feel for him. But is the KNVB/Koeman really doing this? I doubt it. So really i'm not sure I agree that they are doing everything they can to keep these players. It all seems very typically 'nuchter' Dutch.

 

I understand your reasoning, but in the end the Orange shirt got it's auro of sublime because of the reason that to be selected to wear it you have proven to be worth it. Nations like the USA/Morocco etc. need to flatter potential players.
In the Orange case it's the player that should be flattered by the prospect of being good enough to wear it. Once we go down the track of putting the Orange shirt on bodies just to cap them it will be a sign of degrading quality of the Orange team.
If players like those mentioned can't be bothered to wait their chance, hell Virgil had to wait until he was 25 to get his chance, then my message is to feck off to them. You then think your bigger than the shirt, so go some place you are bigger than the shirt and watch from there being big with nobodies to the ever grandeur of the Orange shirt.
We never should make yet unproven nobodies to be bigger than the Orange shirt.
And by using it to cap players that are in fact at that moment unworthy to the shirt we would degrade it.

 

Let facts talk for themselves. If we could look into Ziyech's head now and read what he thinks, looking at the Orange team he would have been a great member of and cheered at, comparing it to what he's experiencing now by playing for a shit team and for the sacrifice of giving that up to play for Morocco and getting abused by their "fans", what would we see?

If we have to flatter people to chose the best option and in the process devaluating it I choose to make them feel bad about their stupid decisions later.
I prefer motivated players of a little bit lower quality than players that have to be dragged in.

You're itching to get a chance (see the Malen story) or not.

 

But that's kind of my point, we had the luxury of waiting for Virgil to develop because Oranje was his only choice. But I have a feeling if Van Dijk had a double nationality to Turkey or Morocco we may have lost out on him too after he was ignored for so many years (because lets be honest, people had been calling for him for years). What a miss that would have been, just because no one thought maybe just maybe we should cap his potential. Van Dijk had no choice but to be patient, these other kids do have a choice.

I agree with the feeling and I think every player should see Oranje as the dream, but it is possible that these kids can feel that way about two teams. Just because we help to convince them to make the choice for Oranje doesn't mean we're "dragging" them in and that they wont be motivated. I imagine players like Ziyech, Ihatteren or Kokcu will be motivated for any team they play for. I feel like most of these young players now genuinely want to play for Oranje, but then at some point Turkey and Morocco jump in with enormous flattery games while Oranje does nothing. With enough convincing people are easily manipulable. Those countries sell them a fairy tale while Oranje sells them silence.

 

does any one else think Kik Pierie wil the next to follow Dest to USMNT. Well he is in perking order at Ajax and looking at Sandler,Ake, Van Drongelen, I dont think he has a future in NT either. I mean competition wise.

 

Definitely.

But yeah like you said... looking at De Ligt, Ake, Sandler, Van Drongelen and then Schuurs, Ki-jana and Sepp van den Berg coming up.... thats a lot of young talent. Plus De Vrij and Van Dijk are only 27 and 28, so they could presumably be around for another 5-6 years as well.

Dest on the other hand doesn't have that much talent in front of him and could definitely wait it out another 2-3 years before the next World Cup. I mean the other international tournaments for the US really aren't that interesting, lets be honest. I'd understand if he was gonna miss a WC while waiting for Oranje, but that isn't the case for quite a while.

 

I question that Dest is a lone talent. We've got plenty coming.
Owen Wijndal of AZ is very young and very good. Remember AZ only after 7 matches, including EL qualifiers conceded their first goal. I'm very interested to see how he will manage against ManUnited. His ratings in several papers and magazines are very good too. In my opinion from what i've seen of him he's superior to Dest.

 

Lets hope so!

 

I really like Wijndal. Has really caught my eye at AZ this year. He is mainly a LB though. I think Wijndal is a bit safer prospect and does everything pretty good. Dest is a bit riskier and has a lower floor but higher ceiling imo. Just a bit more offense to his game.

 

Yeah, we could field eleven CD's and still win matches
Let's face it. Our defenders almost all started as attackers, so in contrast to other nations we could field eleven defenders and still score goals.
This is a part from an interview with former Young Orange coach Pot:
https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/sport/voetbal/artikel/4843806/jong-oranje-voetbal-ek-kwalificatie
Virgil van Dijk

En ook als je het niet redt in Jong Oranje, zegt dat zeker niet alles. Virgil van Dijk is daar volgens hem het beste voorbeeld van. "Van Dijk is als spits begonnen, werd toen middenvelder en later stopper. Ik heb hem toen geselecteerd als verdediger, en Virgil werd helemaal zoek gespeeld in een vriendschappelijke wedstrijd tegen Italië. Daarna heb ik hem niet meer opgeroepen", herinnert Pot zich. "Als ik zie hoe die jongen zich daarna heeft ontwikkeld, daar heb ik heel veel respect voor. Hij is nu de beste van de wereld."

Virgil van Dijk

And even if you don't make it in the Young Orange, that certainly doesn't tellsit all. According to him, Virgil van Dijk is the best example of this. "Van Dijk started as a striker, then became a midfielder and later a stopper. I then selected him as a defender, and Virgil was completely blown away in a friendly match against Italy. After that, I no longer called him up," Pot recalls. "When I see how that boy developed afterwards, I have a lot of respect for it. He is now the best in the world."

 

I would say more often than not it doesnt

 

Quite a compliment: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/vincent-kompany-hails-liverpools-virgil-20027129

 

How good is Dest defensively? Is there improvement?

Of course, it is a shame so many betray us. Boadu is next in line.

 

If I am not mistaken, Pierie does not have American connection (heritage) except that his parents just happened to be in the U.S.A when he was born. So I don't know how he would feel about representing the USMNT.

Pierie made an interesting choice transferring to Ajax. In doing so, he is losing valuable playing times needed for his development. It would have been quite a story if he went to PSV or Feyenoord and walked right into the starting lineup. That said, Schuurs was exactly in the same boat last season - apparently "stashed" in Ajax youth team, but to his credit, he kept improving and is now getting his chance to impress in Ajax senior.

Except for the established four (VDV, MDL, SDV and Ake), all the other young central defender options for Oranje are all on equal footing as Pierie, more or less. They are all fighting ferociously for minutes at their respective clubs... the likes of Schuurs, Hoogma, Van Drongelen, Sandler, Sepp v.d. Berg, etc. So I'd say not all hope is lost for Pierie and his aspiration representing Oranje someday.

What might make things interesting is that there could be other youngsters making surprise leaps by virtue of getting consistent minutes week in and week out this season, e.g. Obispo (Vitesse) or Botman (Heereenven).

 

I was looking at U 21s vs Cyprus and I dont know how Justin Hoogma got the nod ahead of Van Drongelen , Obispo and looking at the goal he conceded on the Cyprus first goal was horrendous.I dont know if this is another of those cases where where the daddys are pulling the strings from the behind the curtain. obispo has had a good outings for Vitesse so far and its hard to believe why PSV never gave him the break.
van drongelen on the bench is a shame to be honest. again a case of playing at club who are not featuring competitively in their top domestic league.

 

Wow, my nephew's wife from Newcastle will be over the moon as a Newcastle fan.

 

Just when I mention him he shows I'm still in the running for the back position:
https://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/video...le-op-voorsprong-bij-liverpool-met-pegel.html

 

Well, the joy of leading at Anfield is always a joy that doesnot last the whole match too often, even for the big gun clubs, so take it as long as it lasts. Who knows he kicks in another one.