Review: Dutch players at home and abroad worthy to be tracked in connection with the Dutch NT - Part 3

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, May 7, 2012.

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  1. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Previous thread:

    #mce_temp_url#

    Yes people a new thread and let's not only track the fancy ones, but also the unsung "heroes":



    Also welcome back Ibi:




    And a nice video for you all from Netherlands through the years:



    First we will have the Euro and I see a separate thread is opened for that one.

    Cheers
     
  2. KPSmit

    KPSmit Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    New York
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    DRB,

    For the love of god, drop the whole Clasie thing. We get it, you are upset about Clasie not getting called up. But guess what, it happened, it's not going to change, get over it, it's not up to you. Chances are, he wouldn't start, or even travel.

    To everyone,

    To be honest, i trust BvM's judgement way more than any of yours. There is a reason why he is there and you're not. Let him do his job, and stop criticizing him for his decisions.
     
  3. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In that case, let's just shut down the forum. After all, there isn't a single thing that is said here that changes ANYTHING about the way things are and the way things are going to happen.

    I guess FdB was also correct in the decision to not use Anita at DM for half the season because he knew stuff that no one here does right? The calls for him to play Anita at DM were stupid because Frank knows more than anyone on the Ajax board, right?
     
  4. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    You may one of the few on this forum who does.:eek:
    But then we would not be true football aficionados who always know better than the current manager. Of course we Ajax fans are renown for criticizing managers; it's our favorite sport!
     
  5. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well try a little harder, because you were totally off.

    According to .... you. I think turning grey is a wrong choice of words again. I think you read the conversation in a wrong way, connected the dots in a wrong way and started mixing a talent election with the Eredivisie Player of the Year election.

    I don't b*tch. Behave sir. You are getting angry for people posting rating lists. Did that offend you?

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...tion-with-the-dutch-nt-part-2.1912501/page-25

    This is actually the selection and I put in blue after a lot of names alternatives. If you feel so connected to a player that we can't discuss the preliminary squad of a NT coach, than you are hanging around the wrong website. Actually why not start contributing something instead of bitc*ing about about other posters. Makes a more interesting read.

    And you wrap it up with a false analogy. Where I come from people build arguments and the stronger the data that supports a conclusion the stronger the claim is and the bigger the dissonance becomes if not acted according to the truth.

    I actually also post data about Maher and call it crazy what he has been able to pull off:
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...dutch-nt-part-2.1912501/page-19#post-25586888

    I even manage exceptions for the kid in case people get disappointed with a lesser period (that every talent will have, even VDV had one).

    My initial post was actually to give the guy credit, that's why I am amused at you struggling to find words and come out when Maher is at the spot, not with a more discussed player in Strootman.
     
  6. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I was not discussing Clasie. I was discussing the left back position and payed honer to Maher winning the talent election.

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...dutch-nt-part-2.1912501/page-26#post-25657846

    Moments later my intentions were hijacked.

    Somehow I think that is not a good idea and defeats to reason of having this thread or even a discussion forum.
     
    JC-14 and TFC Ajax repped this.
  7. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No need to break it down. I'm not going to start a rap-battle with you. And i'm not angry btw..:)
    I just asked if could let this kid have his moment without bringing Clasie into everything.. I'm too lazy to search for all the "But Clasie is better" posts that you made whenever some good news came out about Maher. Maybe you can help? Since you're so good at searching through your own posts..:inlove:
     
  8. KPSmit

    KPSmit Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    New York
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    lol at TFC Ajax for 'repping' DRB's last post (whatever that means). I didn't know the point of this forum was to complain and criticize our manager. Since when did this happen? I'm pretty sure the point of this forum is to get people with similar interests together in order to talk about their passions for the teams/country
     
  9. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Repping is now like 'liking' on FB. And so I repped his post because I agree with it. I don't get what your problem is, you come to a soccer forum to b*tch about people being critical, and go on about how no one's opinion matters anyways. If that's how you feel, then why are you here?
     
  10. KPSmit

    KPSmit Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    New York
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    exactly, you 'repped' his post because you and him both agree on that 'solution' (he said almost the same exact thing as you did). Not because you liked it, or it brought up a good conversation or the such. Being in the military, i see a lot of that same b***sh**, people complaining and what not about stuff they have NO CONTROL OVER. Being a JO and hearing that BS is simply frustrating. You wouldn't understand.

    Why am i here?...
    1) i'm the single most passionate supporter of the Dutch National Team that i have personnaly met, and to be honest, PROBABLY one of the most passionate ones on this website. I arrange my duty dates around the Dutch schedule. For example, i took leave over WC2010 to be able to watch every game. (Military members only get ~30 days of leave a year and usually can't even use all 30)
    2) i enjoy talking about Dutch Football to people who have the same passions and interests as me. Living in the United States, i'm hard-pressed to even find a indivudual who follows the sport half as much as i do, let alone the Dutch.
    3) I only saw this website recently (whenever i joined) after seeing this forum under one my google alerts for "Netherlands Football" and was originally very excited to even find out something like this event existed even though it turned out to be a whole lot of BS.
    4) i am 100% Dutch so i enjoy keeping up with this phenomenal team to keep culturally attached with my heritage.

    -If you need more reasons, ask. For now, i need to get to sleep, i have duty tomorrow. In the mean time, let me guess, you are here to bi*** about the handling of our National team because YOU don't agree with it since there is no other purpose? Just a shot in the dark.
     
  11. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    no, I'm here to discuss football. I personally don't have much of a problem with Maher being chosen over Clasie. But obviously DRB does take issue with Clasie not being considered, and he didn't just b*tch without reasoning, he actually explained why he wants Clasie. There's nothing wrong with that. To say: this is the way it is, someone more intelligent than yourself made it that way, so shut up and accept it - isn't a legit argument on a discussion board IMO. If you think BvM's decision was correct, than state why. sighting a superior person's opinion as your source for an argument doesn't fly for me. It seems to me that every coach makes dumb choices. (eg: MvB benching Ruud vs Portugal, not playing Robben vs Russia, FdB not letting Anita play DM for over half the season despite it being painfully obvious that he has to play there, Van Marwijk ignoring the left back problem, and many many more things) Should those decisions also be accepted without question because they were made by superior minds? Absolutely not. On a forum, everything that can be discussed should be. The other option is to say Meh! someone else has got this all figured out! In which case there really is no need to be discussing things, But I disagree with that.
     
  12. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Your questionable choice of words indicated something else. I think you were.

    Well you could have taken at least the effort to read the post properly and admit Clasie was not mentioned once in the post of Maher:

    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...dutch-nt-part-2.1912501/page-26#post-25657846

    You are totally off and just don't want to admit it, what doesn't speak for you. The 3 rating site results that got you mad were only posted after a reaction from another poster. I didn't brought Clasie into it and I was actually putting Maher in the sunlight while being in a discussion about the left back position. You could only have missed that if you got mad and started to mix things up like a best talent election with a best competition player election and started hijacking my intention.

    I can help and I will make something very clear to you. Selection procedures and the days they are made public, like van Marwijk just did, will always go hand in hand with discussion about him choosing the most optimal group of players or not. If your boy Maher is chosen for the midfield spot he will be weighted against other options at hand. Moments like that it is maybe better to stay away or something as I and others will hold him and other players against each other. If you would have been a PSV supporter and sensitive about Strootman or Bouma (I posted rating site's about Brouwers at Gladbach :eek:) you would have had even a bigger problem now. Obviously we can't take this road you want to enforce on other people. Maher steps into the Dutch NT? Maher will be judged and held against others in past, present and future. Get over it.
     
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    If you look at our locations, there are many who post on this forum that live in the US and Canada who are equally supportive of the Dutch NT and various teams in the Eredivisie. I have relatives who live in Amsterdam who first introduced me to the game in a big way when I spent two years on a postdoctoral fellowship at the University in Utrecht where I routinely went up to Amsterdam to watch league matches (only regret is that I missed Cruijff by a few years).
    as in my response above, there are a bunch of us who live in the US and on the Ajaxtalk forum even more.

    Dutch fans have been bitching about the NT like almost forever. Maybe the only time that we didn't was when we won the Euros in 1988. There was lots of complaining about the 2010 WC team and the tactics that were employed. As I stated in a previous post, fans of teams always are complaining about something and that's their right. Look at what happened in Cologne the other day when they got relegated in the Bundesliga and in Blackburn the other evening when they were relegated in the EPL. These fans were just incredibly angry at how their teams were mismanaged. They pay money for tickets and that is their right.
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    For anybody who didn't get the memo:

    This is a discussion forum. A place where free thinkers come together with often a common interest in certain matters. Posting and being here is not an exercise in obedience and trust in authority. Where I come from you question authority and follow it with a critical eye. It's a place of critical thinking, where evidence is valued, shared, discussed and conclusions as a result are drawn, independent (agree to disagree) or together (new evidence leads to better insight).

    There is however a procative option even on this forum for people who don't want to agree on this setup and like to operate in their circle of influence rather than concern :

    [​IMG]

    When you scroll down the Dutch Forum you will bump into this little guy here. Click it and start a topic on your own conditions. Point out what the aim of the thread is . If that includes not to question the decisions of people making the shots in the world of football, then go ahead. Should be interesting.

    On a side note:

    #mce_temp_url#

    This thread is just opened by our Canadian friend who's father helped liberating the Netherlands. We can have a discussion about selection, training and players over there if they relate with the tournament. I see Pablo is back and raises some good points.

    Cheers
     
  15. DSC05

    DSC05 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    Detroit, MI
    Club:
    --other--
    I think we are way off topic here. This is a discussion forum and all opinions are welcomed. Personal attacks and being rude to other members not so much.
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  17. KPSmit

    KPSmit Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    New York
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Look, all i'm saying is stop complaining that x player got chosen over y player. We are lucky to have a manager who has been able to bring success to our team recently which is why i believe we shouldn't be bit**ing about him. He has way more experience and knowledge which is why he is there and we aren't.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    A second place is the first loser.
     
  19. It is telling that we have not one Dutch player witch is voted the "best of ." in any league. The Belgians have Kompany in England, Vertonghen in the Netherlands and Hazard in France.
     
  20. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Anyways my personal feeling is Bert is a brilliant manager & we will do much worse without him. The fact that Oranje went to the finals is testimony enough.

    But I think his time is up,he has no fresh ideas to bring to table. Claise has frankly been the best Dutch player in Eredivisie & there is no one anywhere near him. Anita being ingnored for Maduro is rubbish IMO. Van Rhijn should have a call up if Willems deserved one. Willems cant defend to save his life. He is great attacking but rubbish in terms of defending.

    Both the De Jong brothers got a call but Dost did not. Maybe Dost is not technical enough & Bert has skill fetishes when it comes to Striker Selection but why on earth does it never percolate to the CM/DM position where he has "THUGS" type of player in De Jong who cant pass to save his life.

    Bouma over the Gladbach guy is a weird selection. Atleast Clasie & Anita should & SHOULD have been kept in the 30 man squad. He chose 5 CM/DM's one of which is Schaars who probably will play LB. So all the 4 CM's are probably finalized & that Maduro position should have gone to Clasie.

    I still think Kuyt is a very valuable asset but should not start. I dont get it why he cant play RVP & Hunter together. Dropping Hunter at this point is a crime. He has been the Highest Scorer in every competition he has played in this year inculding Euro Qualifiers & has done well for the NT. What more can he possibly do??
     
  21. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    it's telling what? that the Belgians have world class defenders on top teams? or that they have a star winger in a league where Dutch players don't even go?
    we have the top scorers of two of the top three leagues in the world. Just because none of our guys got 'best of____ league', doesn't mean we don't have top notch players

    Edit: that was in response to FSF's post
     
  22. DSC05

    DSC05 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    Detroit, MI
    Club:
    --other--
    Okay once again we are way off topic. No more warnings in this thread regardless of who starts things.
     
  23. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Affelay in the starting 11 against Betis today.
     
  24. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Affelay off in the 58th minute and didn't do too much other than dislocating a finger (which was quickly taped back up). Defensive substitution for Barca as Alves rightly sent off for a nasty challenge (2nd yellow).
     
  25. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Afellay seems to have lost a step or two from his injury. Let's hope he gets it back quickly
     

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