Dutch footballer of the year press classification 1979-1994

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by PuckVanHeel, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    Spanish journalist Maldini chooses his best 11 Dutchmen.

     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    So he omits any players who made their debut in the last 27 years from his top 12. That's very telling.

    On the other hand, the video he made on the 11 "most important" Barcelona players includes three Dutchmen.
     
  3. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    1990/91

    XI
    Metgod (34 6.82)
    Blind (34 6.41) Thijssen (25 6.60) Vink (26 6.50) Vonk (29 6.59)
    Feskens (30 6.40) Wouters (30 6.67) Brands (34 6.44) Valke (27 6.44)
    Bergkamp (33 6.52) Mrkela (32 6.47)

    Ajax

    F de Boer 34 5.88
    Winter 31 5.58
    Witschge 33 5.64
    Roy 28 6.04
    Pettersson 17 6.41

    PSV
    Romario 25 5.68
    Gerets 23 6.22
    Van Breukelen 32 6.31
    Heintze 33 6.33
    Popescu 30 6.20
     
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  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I was thinking there must be a typo in the magazine but it is the goalkeeper Metgod and defender Vonk, rather than the goalkeeper Hans Vonk (of South Africa) and defender Metgod :)
     
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  5. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Correct. Edward Metgod (Sparta) and Michel Vonk (SVV)

    FC Den Haag has a goalkeeper named Stam and someone named Gentile.
     
  6. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    What's interesting is that Romario's ratings are in general pretty low, however I assumed that's just down to his playstyle and that this metric isn't favorable to the kind of player he was. Similar can be seen with Gerd Müller and Puskas.

    The catch is that for the 1994 World Cup Romario is the #1 rated player by his average grade.

    Maybe the VI writers learn to appreciate him more after he left the league or was his performance just better than what he did week in week out? I think latter is unlikely, his goalscoring stayed the same.
     
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  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #432 PuckVanHeel, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    Yes and 'rounded center forwards' as Di Stefano (by his own Marca) and Van Basten had at times not super great ratings too.

    Romario could be streaky. I assume in those games he scored they found it hard to give him a 9, while in others he got a low rating because of doing 'nothing'. He was pretty lazy. He divided opinions, also because of some incidents at times and there were claims he could make better use of his technical abilities (also for the Brazil team! if he played). Romario fell out with numerous coaches (PSV, Barcelona, Valencia).

    Romario his partner Kieft had good ratings you show on the previous page, and I know for a fact he had also some assists indeed. Many more assists than Romario.

    Can be it are different raters during the 1994WC? The regular season journalists on holiday? He was by some seen as a more rounded player while playing for Barcelona IIRC, his assist count - even if not always difficult in nature - is at least noticeably higher than during his PSV days.

    It helps of course he scored in 5 of the 7 games in 1994WC, that tends to bump up the rating automatically, but it's intriguing he goes ahead of Stoichkov (though the doppelgangers tool labels him as a 'goalscorer' by trade). Baggio wasn't well received during the group stages and final match.

    edit: we both noticed Romario's 1994 OPTA stats didn't stand out, but the doppelgangers tool shows him well in progressive dribbles and non-shot expected goals. Thus it might be the raters saw enough happening besides the goals, contributing enough besides scoring.
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/romario-1994/


    In general I'm not a fan (compared to Ronaldo) mainly for three reasons:

    - When he was injured (1991-92) they reached a better points total with near identical goal numbers as the season before and after. The season before his arrival they won the treble with 80+ points and 100+ goals. The next time they achieved 80+ points was... 1991-92.

    - Despite his topscorer awards, he and the team were underwhelming in Europe. Also some incidents here like showing the finger to the coach when he was subbed out etcetera. Ajax reached a number of finals around that time, Feyenoord some semi finals. People expected a lot more of PSV, the richest team in the country at the time (EC '88 won with five ex-Ajax players). Does Romario share in the blame of that by his general unreliability and conduct? I think yes (for 3 of the 5 seasons, in the other 2 perhaps not).

    - I don't see how he was better (more important) than Bergkamp during those years, who played for a worse team. He scored a similar amount of goals, did in general much more (also without ball: a trait he even showed post-2000 I saw in highlights), overall more successful in Europe and for the national team he also delivered against teams as Italy, Germany, England, Brazil around those years. If we talk about Ronaldo: he scored against numerous elite sides while Romario scored only three times against a team of that ilk (Argentina '89; England and Italy '97 who were both severely under-strength and Italy had only two days preparation time or so)


    But yeah, if someone needs a striker for a 1990-2000 team then he's a strong option (next to Batistuta, Shearer...), just don't agree with the 'internet opinion' of placing him ahead of Ronaldo and/or MvB and in that sort of category. Ronaldo Luis was done for the top level at the age of 28, while the five days younger Totti continued until he was 40 - that's true.
     
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  8. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I'd doubt it, but might look it up.

    Well, yeah you have a point. Romario joined PSV immediatly after they won the EC. I will take a closer look at his EC games.

    edit: short summary
    88/89 eliminated by Real
    89/90 eliminated by Bayern (Romario did not play)
    90/91 eliminated by Montpellier
    91/92 eliminated by Anderlecht (Romario played just 37 min overall)
    92/93 eliminated in the group with Milan, Porto and Göteborg

    90/91 looks like the biggest underachievment

    True
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Trying to do this objective, I'd break it down like this. Here I focus on his continental contribution, but also the wider context of his general delivery.


    1988-89 (blame: no): Voted player of the year by his (opinionated) peers, for the first and only time (nominated in some later years, as posted in this thread). Topscorer in the league, showed up in the later stages of the domestic cup, scored against Real Madrid and in the Intercontinental Cup (not an important game for PSV, but still). Although for the Copa America he was generally placed one or two classes below his team-mate Bebeto, he delivered against Uruguay and Argentina. He wasn't eligible to play against Porto in the first round - not really his fault. Only downside was just 1 goal against the the best four teams of the league (including cup games), and he didn't do well in the UEFA Supercup. Overall a really good campaign.

    1989-90 (blame: a bit): Started to take the penalties (with Koeman gone). Unfortunate that he broke his leg, they missed him against Bayern (2-2 on aggregate) but he wasn't in a super great form. Didn't make a difference in the domestic cup until that point, started the league well against Ajax (september 1989) but after that he didn't show up against the best five teams of the country (one goal against Roda). Ajax won the league as a result, PSV won the cup without him. 0 goals in 4 games for his national team. The game against Steaua Bucharest is often cited as his best performance for PSV. Topscorer of the league.

    1990-91 (blame: yes): Really invisible against Montpellier (Laurent Blanc very impressive here). Disciplinary issues caused frictions in the team and organization. In exile for the national team, but he did show up big time against the top of the league (6 goals against Ajax and Feyenoord). PSV won the league, Feyenoord the cup. The Montpellier no show, after causing friction in the squad, and the exile for the national side, really counts against him. For me this is a 'yes.' Joint topscorer of the league with Bergkamp.

    1991-92 (blame: yes): Disciplinary issues limited his appearances to two European games. In the two he played he was subbed off both times and he showed the finger to his manager. He struggled with injuries as well and as mentioned PSV won the league with a better points total and equally good number of goals. He was a man of flashes of brilliance rather than sustained influence (but there are more of those).

    1992-93 (blame: yes): Outscored in the league by others (with and without penalties). Back playing for the national side (vs France, Germany) but no goals. The Champions League topscorer award is somewhat inflated by having four of his seven goals in the qualification rounds. He didn't deliver in the last four matches and by that point PSV wanted to get rid of him. Head coach Bobby Robson and the manager Ploegsma could tolerate him but their successors did not. Barcelona bought him relatively cheap (for a Brazilian superstar) I believe. Scored against champions Feyenoord but not against others of the top four.

    Overall I feel he's perhaps in two without blame, but in three he is.


    Of course he was in the end seen as an excellent player, some like 'Algemeen Dagblad' placed him as the #1 foreigner (not without discussion) and that he stayed for a few years at PSV gives him a good position. Occasionally he comes to visit the country, can speak the language a little bit. He does at times a good word for 'our' type of football like when in 1992 he said MvB is the best in the world, and here on Brazilian TV when he placed two orange players in his 'rest of the world XI'. He has matured somewhat, is a politician now, and has gained a broader perspective when he talks here.

    The way 'the internet' tends to give him the 2nd most yearly inclusions of all Eredivisie players (behind Cruijff, ahead of the other greats) is though completely besides reality, even with the advantage of hindsight. He just didn't have the same sustained impact of a Litmanen, Nilis, Kindvall or Ronaldo (among others). Litmanen despite his injuries did a lot more on the european scene over a number of years, a key part of an 'invincible' team (unbeaten in the league and europe).

    Romario his 1988-89 season is really strong (objectively speaking), also good are 1990-91 and 1992-93.
     
  10. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Puck, I know that what I'm going to ask you is beyond the time interval of this thread, but I would like to know if you have the average Voetbal International ratings of the 1972-73 season. I would like to check, for example, if there were some Ajax footballers clearly more valued than others and if Swart and Keizer's performance did not clash with others. I'm also curious to know if Jeuring's performance in the UEFA Cup was similar to what he had in the Eredivisie.
     
  11. dror_khayat

    dror_khayat Member

    Jul 27, 2004
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    "Coen Moulijn, Johan Cruijff or Arjen Robben? Or anyone else? Maybe Marco van Basten? Who is the best football player in the Netherlands at this moment? Our northern neighbors have produced so many brilliant, versatile, balanced, clever and influential characters in football that it is a fun exercise to choose the best."


    The editors had this as their top three:

    1. Cruijff
    2. Van Basten
    3. Bergkamp

    The readers came to this:

    1. Cruijff
    2. Van Basten
    3. Rensenbrink
    4. Robben
    5. Bergkamp
    6. Gullit
    7. Seedorf
    8. Moulijn
    9. Van Hanegem
    10. Rijkaard

    -----------------

    What I found interesting is that this 'wisdom of the crowds' is not too different from my personal conclusions.

    The difference here is that I would move Seedorf outside this list (he's for me one of the dozen options for tenth), and Wilkes replaces Moulijn in this three-to-nine bracket that can be placed in any order (the one Rotterdammer replaces the other).

    Moulijn his high position is probably aided by a few starring performances by him against Belgian teams, most notably the 9-1 victory in 1959 as one of his marquee games (there are others too, like England in 1964 for example). This remains Belgium their second highest defeat, behind a 11-2 defeat in 1909 against the England amateurs. Of course it is not the only 'plus' for him, but it helps. The match often returns in previews for derby matches.
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
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  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Here some of the most intruiging bits, including stuff where we're lagging behind (in his eyes). Maybe he's mostly talking about ~15 years ago, while nowadays a number of the best Dutch youth coaches are (sadly!) working in England itself at high positions - where the finances and possibilities are endless.


    Thus it can happen that an English football legend, whose heart is tied to Arsenal, reserves an extra place for a Dutch club. Tony Adams loves Feyenoord. "For me there is nothing above a matchday in De Kuip."
    [...]
    They picked him as the best Arsenal defender of all-time. Only Thierry Henry and Dennis Bergkamp ranked higher in the popularity poll.
    [...]
    The first meeting with the trainer job at Wycombe Wanderers was not a success. Adams couldn't prevent relegation to the League Two. "It was at hindsight the wrong decision", concludes Adams now. "I didn't get to coaching, because I was too busy with managing. The club lost 7000 pounds a week. I discovered it is hard to let mature players learn additional stuff. To let them learn technical details."
    [...]
    Adams signed an internship contract and got the freedom to move around the youth academy by his own insight. The knife had two sides. Adams gained insight into an approach that has been copied more often than Louis Vuitton bags, with the knowledge copies have only rarely surpassed the original. Vice versa, Feyenoord hoped to draw upon the rich experience of the personification of a winner. "Liverpool had just won the Champions League in the bizarre final against Milan (where Liverpool turned around a 3-0 deficit, ed.). Henk van Stee was head of the department. 'Only English teams can make a comeback of this magnitude', I said to him. He asked me if I wanted to transfer this battling attitude to the Feyenoord youth. In this way we both benefited." Varkenoord felt as a warm bath. "Wim Jansen is like God. He has given me everything. He showed me everything. I couldn't believe how open and receptive all Dutch trainers were. I could start at the 'Beloften' and do what I wanted. One fantastic chance to learn coaching. Gain knowledge. I still remember well driving through the tunnel in the morning on the way to the club. The atmosphere was fantastic.
    [...]
    Also with the player material he had by his own saying little to complain. "Besides the young team I worked with under 12 and under 14. With players as Stefan de Vrij and Bruno Martins Indi. Those were fourteen years old. Top talents. Of those there were a few. Royston Drenthe, Evander Sno, Lorenzo Davids and Jonathan de Guzman for example. We had a good group." Soon Adams discovered there were significant differences with the English style. "The tactics are set in stone: 4-3-3. The only variation is whether you play with the tip ahead or the tip behind. But what was very eye opening for a kick-and-rush Brit as me: you move a defender through towards midfield."

    "In England you do it for the fans. Example: you are down with a few minutes to go, add a striker. Purely to show the fans you are doing all you can. That's what you don't do quickly. And do you know where you see the differences in perception the most? The terminology at the sidelines. My oldest son plays for Cheltenham Town. After the match you always hear the parents giving remarks as 'well battled' and 'fought for every meter'. In the Netherlands parents always talk about control over the match and points of improvement. That was fresh. I also have the impression that parents are much less compelling and pushy when it comes to the development of the child. In England there are many more problems with misbehaving parents.

    The Dutch coaches are according to him also less directed by emotion. "They are more calculative than in England. Stay calm. Nowadays people like to see coaches shouting and sprinting across the sidelines like a madman. They think that is necessary. But in the Netherlands I learned you cannot really think if you are worked up. Control emotions, stay cool, and make the best decision for your team. That style I have adopted and carried along later trainer jobs. Sometimes it gets wrongly interpreted. Arsene Wenger was accused of having an uninterested attitude. But believe, inside it bubbles. By staying calm you can prevent impulsive decisions. That is generally something Dutch trainers have mastered for a long time quite well."

    "What you also do well: couple the seasoned trainers to ex-players in the youth. It became my opinion that the best coaches actually should be working in the youth department. I also say often to Arsene that he has to go to Africa to teach the youth there. At Feyenoord it was custom to put quality trainers on the youngest age groups. One experienced trainer coupled with an ex-player. This way you educate not just players but also your own trainers. Very clever."
    [...]
    "Dennis is a very friendly man, with a wonderful family around him. He often likes to be private. I do wonder why he has a statue in London. No, just kidding. From a technical point of view he is the best footballer Arsenal ever had. Every fan affirms this. Without Dennis I would have won nothing. He by the way without me neither, I like to tell myself. Marc is a good friend. One totally different person than Dennis is. Some bit of an einzelgänger. A very talented footballer on top. I often visited his Go Ahead Eagles. Also now at Ajax. His son resembles him like two drops of water."
    [...]
    In the warmth of Varkenoord the already existing charm for Feyenoord developed into affection. Not the least because of the relative shelter he could work in. Who is accustomed to paparazzi and reporters in the trees, feels the approach of the Dutch press as an oasis. "I saw once Louis van Gaal completely barracking a player's wife. He absolutely destroyed her. Van Gaal had just won a prize and looked as if he had drunk too much, maybe. Reporters were standing nearby, but to my surprise the accident wasn't newsworthy."
    [...]
    "Van Gaal is a very sweet man, really, but can only talk about himself." Then the Rotterdam mentality fits better to Adams. "The people are very modest and humble. Very direct and straight to the point. Working class. I come from East London; it wasn't too difficult to identify myself with them. The club is in my heart. Feyenoord is phenomenal. I love the stadium a lot. I know there has been for many years discussion about a new habitat, but for me there is nothing better than a matchday at de Kuip. With all those people in the stands. The club fits me best. I was once chased by a group of Ajacieden. That makes me a proper Feyenoorder, right?"
    [...]
    According to Adams the English football world is made awake about alcohol addiction and depression. "Many things have changed down the years in this aspect. The English FA tackles the problem. It is not hidden and placed under the carpet any longer. To be honest I think the KNVB can learn a lot from us. Soon I will visit Zeist to talk about our work."
    [...]
    "It is very brave by him to say stuff like that about mental defects, but also risky", thinks Adams. "People often don't get it."
    [...]
    It is not unthinkable Adams will once return to Feyenoord. Back to working with the youth, to coaching instead of managing, to the Rotterdam shelter. Or, like someone with a poetic slant would say: to a club he doesn't have to carry alone.
    [...]
    Mr. Arsenal
    Fans call Adams 'mister Arsenal', a status he derives from 609 matches in the first team, ten major trophies, and above all a to devotion bordering loyalty to the club he served for twenty years. He is still the only player to become English champion in three different decades as a team captain.
     
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  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Very interesting comments Puck; well done on translating and posting.

    Gives a good impression about how he experienced Dutch football, and a little note about Bergkamp and Overmars too.

    I noticed those chosen XIs by him did change more than most would (between 2006 and 2013) but it could be as much variation as complete change of mind, and I suppose once he decides that since 2006 the Barcelona midfielders convinced him then various things can change and some other different names are introduced. Always good to get the comments, so FourFourTwo etc do a good job with those selections in that respect. It was 5 the same in the two starting line-ups he picked wasn't it - Seaman, Baresi, Maldini, Vieira and Van Basten who obviously made a big impression on him in Euro 88 (not that he'd be picked just for that reason) - I seem to think I've seen or heard some comments at some point from Adams saying he'd have liked to try again to defend better against him in Italia 90 World Cup (I think - I'm not sure exactly what it was now)!

    Interesting that Arsenal of the George Graham era (successful but seen as a bit negative) were studying the defending of Maldini and Baresi etc at Milan under Sacchi (seen more as revolutionary and novel, but of course they and Arsenal didn't play exactly the same overall by any means).
     
  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Not Seaman sorry - Anderson which I shouldn't have forgotten as he was a Forest player! I thought I'd counted 5 when I looked last night anyway, but just remembered Anderson was definitely in twice after my above post.

    The comments about Bergkamp from 2006, added to the ones from the Dutch magazine give a nice overview of how he saw him as player/person anyway (like most people see him it seems). I'll copy and paste the 2006 ones just in case the link disappears at any point:
    "I don’t just want a player who will score 150 goals, but someone who will make 150 goals, and that’s what you get with Dennis – he’s on the team sheet straight away. An enormously talented footballer: intelligent, always drifting between the lines and with fantastic distribution. He really opens up doors."
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    There are also some big problems/weaknesses over here (injury prevention for example; and that many of the best trainers work abroad) but in general good to keep perspective about things and incidents.

    There are also taboos, or near taboos, as he indicates.

    One peculiar thing is that there have been a few gay referees (some losing UEFA appointments because of that) but almost no footballers.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I liked the comments and comparison he made with Uruguay. Saw today this peculiar 'ideal XI' by the Uruguayan channel GolTV (october 2016)



    Vd Sar; Suurbier, Koeman, F. de Boer, Krol; Gullit, Rijkaard, Cruijff, Seedorf; Kluivert, Van Basten
     
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  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    @PDG1978

    I found something very interesting.

    When 'Elf Voetbal' had their 400th issue in March 2015, they listed the top 400 Eredivisie players since 1981. Including text it are 50 pages.

    The monthly magazine Elf Voetbal is basically together with the weekly VI and 'de Voetbaltrainer' (a more technical publication) one of the three long running publications.

    "With some modest pride we present the top 400 of the best Eredivisie players in the existence of Elf Voetbal, the oldest and longest running monthly magazine. Please note: the accomplishments from before 1981 are not counted. We dived in our archive too. The list is of course subjective and contestable, but about the winner there can't be too many doubts."

    Notable is the exclusion of Ziyech at that point (his 2nd full season was underway). For completeness I'll post the entire top 400. Maybe or possibly some have heard of certain sporadic names as Lamptey, Vampeta, Kiki Musampa, Henk ten Cate, Theo Snelders or some of the names that featured in the major tournaments like Engelaar or Keisuke Honda for Japan.

    I use their spelling so Zhelyazkov becomes Jeliazkov.


    400. Jan Jongbloed
    399. Louis van Gaal
    398. Johan Steur
    397. Ferdi Vierklau
    396. Michael Bradley
    395. Royston Drenthe
    394. Ali El Khattabi
    393. Peter Wisgerhof
    392. Marcel Peeper
    391. Vampeta
    390. Prince Polley
    389. Jan van Halst
    388. Alfons Groenendijk
    387. Nii Lamptey
    386. Henk ten Cate
    385. Everton
    384. Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink
    383. Bjorn Vleminckx
    382. Jatto Ceesay
    381. Aad Mansveld
    380. Jos Jonker
    379. Frank Berghuis
    378. Koos Waslander
    377. Petter Hansson
    376. Wim Balm
    375. Hans Vonk
    374. Cor Lems
    373. Erik Nevland
    372. Chris Dekker
    371. Michel Boerebach
    370. Daryl Janmaat
    369. Ron Jans
    368. Peter Boeve
    367. Pierre Vermeulen
    366. Henk Duut
    365. Martijn Reuser
    364. Harry van der Laan
    363. Bruno Martins Indi
    362. Ton Pattinama
    361. Andy van der Meijde
    360. Rick Hoogendorp
    359. Stefan de Vrij
    358. David Mendes da Silva
    357. Roberto Rosales
    356. Theo Lucius
    355. Andre Hoekstra
    354. Frans Janssen
    353. Henk Timmer
    352. Fernando Ricksen
    351. Jurrie Koolhof
    350. Henk Grim
    349. Jan Mölby
    348. Orlando Engelaar
    347. Kamohelo Mokotjo
    346. Zeljko Petrovic
    345. Dick Nanninga
    344. Jan van Grinsven
    343. Andrej Jeliazkov
    342. Brett Holman
    341. Ruud Heus
    340. Marcus Berg
    339. Davy Klaassen
    338. Oscar Moens
    337. Graeme Rutjes
    336. Jan van Deinsen
    335. Kiki Musampa
    334. Romeo Castelen
    333. Christian Gyan
    332. Nordin Wooter
    331. Danny Hesp
    330. Hans Galjé
    329. Lex Immers
    328. Jack de Gier
    327. Mike Obiku
    326. Dani
    325. Theo Snelders
    324. Mido
    323. Paul Nortan
    322. Peter Hoekstra
    321. Stanley Brard
    320. John Lammers
    319. Klaas Drost
    318. Maurice Graef
    317. Jens Toornstra
    316. Gérard de Nooijer
    315. Dennis de Nooijer
    314. Marco van Ginkel
    313. Yassine Abdellaoui
    312. Bart Latuheru
    311. Stijn Vreven
    310. Nico-Jan Hoogma
    309. Frans Adelaar
    308. Marco van Hoogdalem
    307. Alfred Schreuder
    306. Erik Willaarts
    305. Earnest Stewart
    304. Miroslav Stoch
    303. Martin Laamers
    302. Edwin Olde Riekerink
    301. Keisuke Honda
    300. Tim de Cler
     
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  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    299. Didier Martel
    298. Arnold Bruggink
    297. Dean Gorré
    296. Wout Holverda
    295. John van Loen
    294. Wout Brama
    293. Gene Hanssen
    292. Edison Mendez
    291. Danny Hoekman
    290. Rodion Camataru
    289. Piet Huyg
    288. Fandi Ahmad
    287. Harry Decheiver
    286. Kevin Hofland
    285. Piet Keur
    284. Patrick Lodewijks
    283. David Loggie
    282. Anthony Lurling
    281. Thomas Buffel
    280. Hendrie Krüzen
    279. Kew Jaliens
    278. Ryan Babel
    277. Martin Jol
    276. Gert Kruys
    275. Ali Ibrahim
    274. Cheick Tioté
    273. Jetro Willems
    272. Maarten Stekelenburg
    271. Henk Fraser
    270. Willy Carbo
    269. Adil Ramzi
    268. Stijn Schaars
    267. Sander Westerveld
    266. Luuk de Jong
    265. Marcel Brands
    264. Nacer Chadli
    263. Marciano Vink
    262. Arouna Koné
    261. Leroy Fer
    260. Mariano Bombarda
    259. Héctor Moreno
    258. Jesper Gronkjaer
    257. Lex Schoenmaker
    256. Gerald Sibon
    255. Pieter Huistra
    254. Jozy Altidore
    253. Urby Emanuelson
    252. Ricardo van Rhijn
    251. Jan Kromkamp
    250. Keje Molenaar
    249. Rob McDonald
    248. Dwight Tiendali
    247. Mahamadou Diarra
    246. Michael Mols
    245. Wim Koevermans
    244. Marc van Hintum
    243. Fred Rutten
    242. Max Huiberts
    241. Jeremain Lens
    240. Bud Brocken
    239. Danko Lazovic
    238. Edson Braafheid
    237. Juul Ellerman
    236. Ernest Faber
    235. Mateusz Klich
    234. Michel van de Korput
    233. Edgar Barreto
    232. Dennis Rommedahl
    231. Erik Regtop
    230. Ton Lokhoff
    229. Georgios Samaras
    228. Carlos Salcido
    227. Young-Pyo Lee
    226. Jan Monster
    225. Rob de Wit
    224. Danijel Pranjic
    223. Gerrie Kleton
    222. Balazs Dzudzsak
    221. Marcus Allback
    220. Rasmus Elm
    219. Orlando Trustfull
    218. Erik Meijer
    217. Sander Boschker
    216. Vurnon Anita
    215. Jeffrey Talan
    214. Leo van Veen
    213. Martin van Geel
    212. Thomas Vermaelen
    211. Barry Opdam
    210. Lasse Schöne
    209. Wim Jansen
    208. Sergio Romero
    207. Sami Hyypia
    206. Edo Ophof
    205. Peter Bosz
    204. Anton Janssen
    203. Igor Korneev
    202. Adam Maher
    201. Jonathan de Guzman
    200. Ron Vlaar
     
    comme repped this.
  22. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, you're right Puck that is an interesting list!

    As you allude to, especially between 200 and 400 there will be many names I'm not familiar with properly or at all (but for example 200 and 201 both played in the Premier League, and 399 and 400 I know in both cases too although for different reasons - I think maybe Van Gaal was a striker but maybe I remember wrong lol but obviously I know who he is as a person/coach).

    Interesting that they say everything from before 1981 is not considered, but the number 1 player is clear: I'm wondering if it is still Johan Cruyff or not (other major candidates don't necessarily have much of a longevity edge even given their years abroad, but obviously they were younger players)!
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The Jan Peters here below is the one of NEC, AZ, Atalanta and Genoa (31 caps, 4 goals). Not the one of Feyenoord (one cap).

    199. Wilbert Suvrijn
    198. Karim el Ahmadi
    197. Jos Roossien
    196. Sjaak Troost
    195. Maarten Martens
    194. Simon Tahamata
    193. Ioan Sabau
    192. Stan Valckx
    191. Leonardo
    190. Tijani Babangida
    189. Mario Been
    188. Tomas Galasek
    187. Cees van Kooten
    186. René Eijkelkamp
    185. Filip Djuricic
    184. Hennie Meijer
    183. Bert Konterman
    182. Glenn Helder
    181. Frans Thijssen
    180. Manuel Sanchez Torres
    179. Jan Peters
    178. Kevin Strootman
    177. Adrie Koster
    176. Heurelho Gomes
    175. Johan de Kock
    174. Demy de Zeeuw
    173. Regi Blinker
    172. Joris Mathijssen
    171. Toby Alderweireld
    170. Joop Hiele
    169. Hatem Trabelsi
    168. John Heitinga
    167. Jordy Clasie
    166. Bert van Marwijk
    165. Piet Keur
    164. Kees Pier Tol
    163. Michel Kreek
    162. Dries Mertens
    161. Tscheu-La Ling
    160. John Guidetti
    159. Niklas Moisander
    158. Dick Schoenaker
    157. Michael Laudrup
    156. Shota Arveladze
    155. Ruud Hesp
    154. Bas Dost
    153. Arnold Scholten
    152. Salomon Kalou
    151. Graziano Pellè
    150. Jasper Cillessen
    149. Wlodi Smolarek
    148. Alfred Finnbogason
    147. Denny Landzaat
    146. Georginio Wijnaldum
    145. Piet Schrijvers
    144. Mounir El Hamdaoui
    143. Eddy Treijtel
    142. Barry van Galen
    141. Bwalya Kalusha
    140. Eric van der Leur
    139. René van de Kerkhof
    138. Gregory van der Wiel
    137. Memphis Depay
    136. Kenneth Perez
    135. Petur Petersson
    134. Ronald Waterreus
    133. Christian Eriksen
    132. Julio Ricardo Cruz
    131. Nigel de Jong
    130. Michel Valke
    129. Douglas
    128. Peter Houtman
    127. Siem de Jong
    126. Adri van Tiggelen
    125. Eljero Elia
    124. Youri Mulder
    123. Gheorghe Popescu
    122. Wilfried Bony
    121. Theo Janssen
    120. Dirk Kuijt
    119. Steven Pienaar
    118. Erwin Koeman
    117. Frank Arnesen
    116. Brett Emerton
    115. Roy Makaay
    114. René van der Gijp
    113. Hallvar Thoresen
    112. Dejan Curovic
    111. Theo Bos
    110. Ibrahim Afellay
    109. Jerzy Dudek
    108. Miralem Sulejmani
    107. Gaston Taument
    106. Wesley Sneijder
    105. Christian Chivu
    104. Wilfred Bouma
    103. Robin van Persie
    102. Ronald Spelbos
    101. Jefferson Farfán
     
    comme repped this.
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    100. Ulrich van Gobbel
    99. Ji-Sung Park
    98. Huub Stevens
    97. Ed de Goey
    96. Peter van Vossen
    95. Jesper Olsen
    94. Martin Haar
    93. Ernie Brandts
    92. Timmy Simons
    91. Daley Blind
    90. Nikos Machlas
    89. Johann Vogel
    88. Ben Wijnstekers
    87. Milko Djurovski
    86. John Metgod
    85. John van den Brom
    84. Dusan Tadic
    83. John de Wolf
    82. Arthur Numan
    81. Klaas-Jan Huntelaar
    80. Boudewijn Zenden
    79. Hans Gillhaus
    78. Henrik Larsson
    77. Edward Sturing
    76. Bryan Ruiz
    75. Giovanni van Bronckhorst
    74. Rafael van der Vaart
    73. Kees Kist
    72. Mousa Dembélé
    71. Winston Bogarde
    70. Maxwell
    69. Jozsef Kiprich
    68. Jan Vertonghen
    67. John Bosman
    66. Edward Linskens
    65. Richard Witschge
    64. Kees van Wonderen
    63. Blaise Nkufo
    62. Willem van Hanegem
    61. Arjen Robben
    60. Hugo Hovenkamp
    59. Luis Suarez
    58. Alex
    57. Jean-Paul van Gastel
    56. Afonso Alves
    55. Mark van Bommel
    54. Bonaventure Kalou
    53. Kristen Nygaard
    52. Shinji Ono
    51. Zlatan Ibrahimovic
    50. Ruud Geels
    49. Jaap Stam
    48. Nwankwo Kanu
    47. Phillip Cocu
    46. Stefan Pettersson
    45. Mateja Kezman
    44. Patrick Paauwe
    43. Ruud van Nistelrooij
    42. Jan Wouters
    41. Arnold Mühren
    40. John Dahl Tomasson
    39. Rob Witschge
    38. André Ooijer
    37. Bryan Roy
    36. Paul Bosvelt
    35. Sonny Silooy
    34. Wim Jonk
    33. Willy van de Kerkhof
    32. Johan Cruijff
    31. Stanley Menzo
    30. Aron Winter
    29. Pierre van Hooijdonk
    28. John van 't Schip
    27. Finidi George
    26. Clarence Seedorf
    25. Soren Lerby
    24. Berry van Aerle
    23. Marc Overmars
    22. Luc Nilis
    21. Ivan Nielsen
    20. Patrick Kluivert
    19. Jan Heintze
    18. Michael Reiziger
    17. Ronaldo
    16. Ruud Gullit
    15. Romario
    14. Edgar Davids
    13. Wim Kieft
    12. Ronald de Boer
    11. Eric Gerets
    10. Dennis Bergkamp
    9. Jari Litmanen
    8. Edwin van der Sar
    7. Ronald Koeman
    6. Hans van Breukelen
    5. Frank Rijkaard
    4. Gerald Vanenburg
    3. Marco van Basten
    2. Frank de Boer
    1. Danny Blind
     
    comme and PDG1978 repped this.
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yeah some of the things had scratching my head a bit and would take another #1 perhaps. He's also one of those who has differing assessments (like e.g. Gullit). "Twice footballer of the year and twice runners-up."

    One of the things going for the #1 is that he's also the one with the most league appearances in this time period (1981 to 2015). Fun fact: as only player of a full-time amateur club he played in the youth selection together with Gullit, Rijkaard, Kieft... Five european finals in thirteen seasons for Ajax is a nice average.
     
    PDG1978 repped this.

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