Donovan: Bayern München vs Borussia Dortmund 2/8 11:00 ET (R)

Any coach will tell you that there are players who raise the level of the game whenever they are in and most people cannot say exactly why. The point of my comment is simply that anyone on the field at the time the team scores deserves credit, at least to some degree, for the score. Likewise, they also deserve a share of the blame when the opposition scores. Nowhere is there any suggestion that more goals will be scored with LD on the field than with him off. The fact of those two goals for and none against while LD was on the field will be cataloged in Klinsmann's mind and he will add to or subtract from that catalog as time, practice and games go on. The essential fact is that the outcome of that game is now part of LD's direct or indirect contribution to Bayern's success this season.

 

In other words, you wanted him to come in the 80th and him to score a hatrick, all of them being chilenas?

 

Wow, strawman of the year.

I could be wrong, but I think humin was saying he expected Donovan to bring something new to the gold shiny Bayern table but has yet to show that he can bring something new.

 

People are entitled to their opinions, and I am to mine. After two brief appearances in BL games, Donovan did SOLIDLY what was asked. He passed the ball around well, had good combination plays, delivered a decent corner, etc. He certainly did not look bad. At the same time, he wasn't fantastic and didn't really add much of a spark to the attack after coming off the bench. If he continues as is, it would be quite difficult to convince the BM board to shell out $10+ mil for him.

Let's hope he has a bit more to show once he got a few games under his belt. Personally, I am confident that he'll do more than just being AVERAGE in the coming games and I look forward to it.

 

Jesus, he'd do something if he got the goddam ball! He barely touched it! Altintop had two opportunities to pass the ball to Donovan, and I'm sure he would have scored at least one of them. He passed it nicely when he did get it, and all I can say is I hope he gets not only more playing time, but more of the ball.

 

Donovan simply being on the field when Bayern sealed the victory is what Kilinsmann will think about, that's just how coaches think. Donovan's off the ball movement freed up a lot of space for Klose.

And Donovan is a forward, not a midfielder. He did bring something different to the match: speed. But as a forward, he has to rely on service and passing from the midfield. You can't fault LD for not receiving the passes even though he was making some very dangerous runs.

 

Ah, you beat me by one minute.

 

Thanks, that is what I meant.

That is also what I would have liked to say

 

perspective

Bayern Munich is a fantastic team. It has lost only 3 times out of 19 games in the Bundesliga (11-3-5), most of that without the help of Landon Donovan.

Bayern Munich is the only German team ranked up with the Manchester Uniteds, Inter Milans, and Barcelonas at the top of the top teams.

It is not good enough for a trial player to be "pretty good" in this context. Without Donovan, Bayern Munich will do very well, thank you. Donovan has to stand out. Being "okay" in limited minutes is certainly not good enough.

Bayern Munich has two strong forwards. The two forwards, Klose (8 goals in 18 games) and Toni (9 goals in 15 games) are having good seasons. Toni had scored a goal in each of the last 6 straight Bundesliga games before being shut out the last two games. Klose (it was amusing to hear people talking about taking him out of the 3-1 win before his two goals) has 4 goals in the last 6 Bundesliga games (plus 4 goals in 2 Champions League games).

Klose has 104 goals in 7 1/2 years of Bundesliga play. Luca Toni led the Bundesliga last year with 24 goals. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBPUh3smgTg"]Here is a clip of Toni's 39 goals in 46 games for Bayern Munich last year.[/ame] Is anybody suggesting that Landon Donovan will perform better than these two standout players in the near term? What reason besides delusional fan fanaticism would indicate that?

Donovan is supposedly replacing Lukas Podolski. If so, perhaps it would be a good idea for Donovan to match or exceed Podolski's Bundesliga record for this year, no?

This year, out-of-favor Podolski has 3 goals and 1 assist in 11 Bundesliga games (just 4 starts). His minutes were 90, 14, 20, 34, 90, 27, 22, 51, 75, 78, 45 --- 3 goals in 546 minutes --- a goal every two full 90 minute game equivalents.

Landon has 0 goals in 2 games --- 19 and 14 minutes --- very few minutes --- tough. He needs to pick up the scoring pace. It would help if he were to get more minutes but how would he earn them with two in-form forwards? He is in a tough position. He has to excel on a very strong team while playing very few minutes.

Bayern Munich is focused on winning the Bundesliga (it has a very tough second half --- just 2 points above 4th place and out of the Champions League slots) and going deep into the Champions League (it has a favorable draw in the round-of-16). Whether or not Landon Donovan is involved in these aims is not clear.

I don't think that Bayer Leverkusen gave Landon Donovan much of a chance in 2004-2005. I don't know if Bayern Munich will give him much of a chance this season. He needs to score goals. When will he score the first Bundesliga goal of his career? Until then, the assertions by BS posters that Donovan should replace X or Y player in a particular game are just plain silly and smack of hometown delusion. The guy needs to score a Bundesliga goal.

Based on Toni's recent form (6 goals in 8 games) and Klose's recent form (4 goals in 6 games plus those 4 Champions League goals), why would anybody take out either of two of the strongest forwards in the league to make room for a trial player on loan who hasn't scored a goal yet in the Bundesliga?

Donovan's current role --- fast, fresh super sub in the last 15-20 minutes --- looks like the proper one. I think that Klinsmann is doing the right thing in a very stressful situation. Donovan is doing okay as a sub but okay is not at all good enough for Bayern Munich.

He would have no trouble at all trying out for a mere mortal team like Fulham. But this ain't Fulham. This is one of the top clubs in the world and the legendary top club in Germany.

The price for Donovan?

Luca Toni was bought by Bayern Munich a year ago last May for just €11 million. He was by far the best scorer in Italy over the previous two years (47 goals). That was $15 million in 2007 for a fellow with 47 goals in Serie A in 2 years.

How much would Donovan go for in a weaker economy? Will MLS screw up a deal yet again by demanding too much for a player? Will Donovan be forced to return to MLS? That would not be good for Donovan.

 

The team either doesn't know how to find LD in dangerous situations, or doesn't trust him enough to play him the ball. Those two opportunities were perfect runs by Landon which anybody could see needed to be played.

I think it's a bit absurd to state that he's not doing enough based on two short appearances. He's slotted into the team nicely and does not look out of his depth.

Statman, if you're such a statman, you should get yourself a reasonable sample size. Your complaints of bias towards LD are hilarious considering your obvious bias against him.

 

I don't understand this logic. If Donovan looks "average" or "pretty good" by Bayern Munich's standards, it means that he can contribute to the team in a position for which, at minimum, they require some cover. A top team playing in Europe needs at least 4 strikers capable of contributing on the roster. Donovan isn't being touted as a star for Bayern. He's being touted as a useful third striker. If he continues to play well in limited minutes, then that's exactly why they would want a third striker for.

So, if MLS were to sell Donovan for $10m at the current exchange rate, he'd cost Bayern about €7.8 (71% Toni's euro rate, 66% his dollar rate). And Donovan is what, five or six years younger? Granted, it's not a gimme, especially for a team that's known to be frugal on transfers, but it doesn't seem implausible. And if MLS were to drop the price to $8m, then suddenly Donovan would cost Bayern only about half what Toni cost. (Frankly, as a Galaxy fan, I'd love to see the Galaxy get some allocation money and the year-long loan of a young Bayern reserve defender or two.)

I don't understand this either. You're saying that Podolski scores 1 goal every 180 minutes. Hasn't Donovan only played about 35 min. total in the Bundesliga? That leaves Donovan with another 145 minutes or so to score before one could say that he's fallen behind the pace. And then, of course, there's sample size. In the small number of games he's likely to get before March 9, one goal either way could put Donovan way behind or way behind Podolski's scoring rate. Surely Klinsmann and Hoeness and whoever else will rely more on how and whether Donovan is contributing to the attack in general.

Also, bear in mind that Donovan seems really keen to be there, and Podolski seems really keen to leave. If Donovan brings more or less the same net benefit on the pitch (even if the specifics are different), Bayern would be clear winners overall.

 

Was it donovan who flicked the ball onto ribery for klose's second goal?

 

Ze Roberto

 

So why exactly did all the US newspaper reports on this game call it LD's Bundesliga debut?

1 He played last week, right?
2 Wasn't his Bundesliga debut years ago??

 

Bayern has some congestion in their upcoming schedule which should provide LD with opportunities for more playing time. They have five critical matches in the first two weeks of March including a stretch of four matches in ten days. Here is Bayern's fixture list for the remaining duration of Donovan's loan (returning to Los Angeles March 8th or 15th according to different sources):

14 February: @ Hertha Berlin (Bundesliga)

21 February: FC Cologne (Bundesliga)

25 February: @ Sporting Clube de Portugal (Champions League)

1 March: @ Werder Bremen (Bundesliga)

4 March: @ Bayer Leverkusen (DFB Pokal)

7 March: Hannover 96 (Bundesliga)

10 March: Sporting Clube de Portugal (Champions League)

14 March: VfL Bochum (Bundesliga)

 

quote:

Landon has 0 goals in 2 games --- 19 and 14 minutes --- very few minutes --- tough. He needs to pick up the scoring pace. It would help if he were to get more minutes but how would he earn them with two in-form forwards? He is in a tough position. He has to excel on a very strong team while playing very few minutes.



Thanks dude, this was funny. In so many words, the BB said Munich was a better team with Landon on the field than with Toni. The great thing for Klinsie now is that he has two completely different attacks he can throw at games. When one isnt working, he can try the other. Good tactical decision to sign LD.

 

I think what Donovan brings is that he's a backup striker who is not Poldo the Whiner.

Whether that's enough to justify keeping him, I can't say.

 

Based on what I've been reading from the Bayern Munich Brass, I think he helped rebalance the Munich attack, which freed up Klose to get the game winner.

You guys remember the Van Niestelrooy vs Louis Saha debate? I think it's similar.

 

Look, obviously the particular chemistry in that particular match helped predicate 2 goals. Or it just might have been luck that the misfires happened early in the game and Klose was on target at the end. Point is, you don't make a judgement based on 34 minutes of closing time action. Period.

The thing that is starting to bother me the most, is that the VAST majority of players don't go through a 'trial'. And if it weren't for MLS weirdness and LD being the biggest star in his league and for the USA - he would just be bought outright like almost every player in the big leagues in Europe today.

I think the trial is mostly requisite because LD is an American, has had issues w/ the culture and pressure in Germany before, and because determining a transfer fee w/ MLS is tough and this gives everyone a better chance to determine his true worth.

If you took LD's lifestime stats and said he was from Mexico or Colombia - people would say he is a bargain buy and give him 6 months with the club to see if he was a success.

But here on BS we're going to analyze each and every minute. His pre-season form was WAY above expectations. I see no reason he shouldn't automatically make this roster. In 2 seasons he could be a starter, but for now, do you have someone that can contribute as a 3rd or 4th striker? Can he play every attacking position in midfield? Does he give you a 'different' dimension from your existing talent on the squad?

This is not a tough decision. It is simply a question of when and how much.

The only thing that would even be a question is if he looked timid, intimidated, or buckling under the pressure. And to be honest, working in a trial environment only triples the amount of psychological BS he has to deal with.

Give him a 3 year permanent contract and he can focus on his game and not worry that a simple mistouch that ANY professional can have might bring critics and cancel the move. BM may be very pleased with his current performances, but the sooner they pull the trigger on the deal, the sooner they'll get even more improved performances from LD.

 

Man...some people really are out-of-touch with their expectations. Landon hasn't scored a goal in 33 minutes of play, he's clearly not Bayern quality. Pardon me if I read more into what the coach is saying rather than your "expert" opinion on LD in regards to Bayern Munich.

The fact of the matter is in his 33 minutes of play, LD has set someone up with a great chance for a goal (in his first match) and the team has scored twice with him on the field. Overall, I'd say that's not too shabby. Is he blowing everyone away? No. Was that the expectation? I really don't think so. Is Park at Man U blowing people away? No, so he's clearly not Man U quality right?

That has been my expectation from the start; for Landon to be more of a Park-Ji Sung (with a better goal-to-minute ratio since Landon is a striker). In other words, get quality minutes and a spot start here and there. I'd say if Landon can continually get 20-30 minutes and a couple of starts in the League competition than that's a really good deal for him.

 

Landon's birthday. I can just imagine how he'd like to celebrate it.

 

[It is risible that people compare Donovan to Park-Ji Sung. First, Park-Ji-Sung has played more than 100 games for one of the best teams in the world. 76 of those games were in the EPL. Landon Donovan has a handful of club games in any real soccer league --- his sad choice.

Earlier in his career, Manchester United went through a stretch of 40 or more games with Park in the lineup --- either starting or subbing. This streak was noticed and noted by Sir Alex Ferguson. This was a big deal for Ferguson --- Park as a good luck charm guaranteeing a win or a tie. According to your definition, Park indeed was "blowing" Ferguson away. I am not sure that Landon Donovan can ever match that result. We shall see. Bayern Munich is 1-1 (loss then win) in Bundesliga play with Donovan playing very few minutes. Just 39 more games to go!]​

 

[It is risible that people compare Donovan to Park-Ji Sung. First, Park-Ji-Sung has played more than 100 games for one of the best teams in the world. 76 of those games were in the EPL. Landon Donovan has a handful of club games in any real soccer league --- his sad choice.

 

You're just killing your own cause: at the very best, the loan is inconclusive to this point because he hasn't even seen a full half. You said this by stating that he has played very few minutes. How'd Luca Toni look in 33 minutes of action againt Dortmund? Do you not realize how ridiculous your post sounds? There's not some set mark that Donovan needs to reach in goals-per-minutes ratio to win a contract. If he has a positive influence on the team and they get results while he is in, I'd say he's doing what he was brought to do.

You yourself sad the Sir Alex noticed that when Park came in he was a "good luck charm." You can't simply apply that logic to Park and ignore it for Donovan. So which way is it? Donovan came on in the final 20 minutes of the game and Bayern doubled their 1st half output. I'm not saying he was directly responsible for this, but maybe he can serve as that spark that brings a new dynamic to the squad.

In addtion, he doesn't have 4 games left, unless I'm totally wrong, he has cup games as well as the first round of the Champions league. That means he would have probably at least 5-6 games left. If he keeps getting 20 minutes per game then he'll have 120 minutes left to play (this is assuming he doesn't get a spot start at one point). We've only seen a small fraction of the total time Landon is going to get, just take a chill pill and wait to see what happens before jumping to such harsh conclusions.

 

against his old club! It's all set up for him to start, and get a hat trick