Does Sam's Army Really Exist Anymore?

If a not-for-profit org was started, and paying members were allowed to vote on an executive board, you'd start to see the influence of the local clubs anyways. SEs and MidnightRiders would vote for their guys or gals and Section8 theirs.

Even if we had a $5 basic membership fee, the money could go towards game day exhibits like the flags, banners, streamers, etc. It would just require transparent book-keeping with a system of checks and balances. As long as you were even a basic member you could vote for the executive board. Maybe the supporters groups should also have a voice of some sort?

Because we have many more viable sites for games than professional teams with viable supporters clubs it's my opinion too, that Sams Army is pretty important for supporting our boys.

 

You can have a volunteer council made up of MLS city supporter people, because most games will still be in MLS cities, especialy with the advent of SSS's. There aren't too many likely cities where games will be played so you can have other people on standby like USL fans, Portland and Seattle come to mind, to help and be informed. I've seen people on this board come forward and volunteer to help or organize for the B-ham qualifier so it shouldn't be too big of a problem, just make a list of the 20 most likely cities to host a game and find some people from there who want to help and keep them informed. The members basically just help out whoever who's city is hosting by: getting any flags or supporter related materials to them, sharing knowledge gained from past experiences, helping out if they are travelling to the game. The council member/members hosting the game will take care of the tailgate and lead/organise the cheering section. There doesn't need to be a set way that "Sam's Army" needs to operate in each city, how things are run is up to the discresion of the local leaders, they would have the support of fans from other cities but would in the end decide what happens. The council would just be a losely affiliated group of fans who have week in, week out, experience supporting a soccer team and want to bring this expertise to the support of the USMNT whether they be leading support from their city or helping someone else. I would limit this council's expressed duties to the support of the team at home and have another affiliated group, that may or may not contain some of the same people, deal with supporting the team overseas.

 

We could outsource it

 

How many "regulars" would you estimate there are nationwide? Multiply that by $5-$10. I suppose someone could get a stipend to do basic organizational things. From the POV of a coach, you'd be surprised how little $ it takes to get people to do things that they have a passion for. If we got sponsors like many supporters groups do worldwide it'd be even easier to come up with the ca$h.

 

Well again from the POV of a coach, often when the passion wears thin, the stipend gets you through.

 

will Sam's Army (TM) ever stop existing? i don't know, but it seems like it can get by as long as the US qualifies and goes to the WC every 4 years.

if I go to Germany, not as someone who's never been a member of Sam's Army (TM) but has attended 10 or so USMNT games, i would want be known as a fan of the US team. i wouldn't want to be called "part of Sam's Army" (don't like the name for a few reasons), but would be honored to be considered part of "Sam's Fans", "The Patriots", "The Free & The Brave" (or any other, more creative name attached to a new official supporters group that doesn't infringe on an existing TM).

a group with a new name seems like a logical answer if people were organized and dedicated to it, which i'm confident they would be. is there a way to insure any future trademarked name wouldn't fall into a similar situation as with the current TM holder of Sam's Army?

 

The SEs incorporated last March and we got our non profit status in a few months. If you hire a lawyer (which we did) to help with boiler plate language for incorporation it won't take forever. Pick a state (or DC) with easy incorporation (DC was easier than VA for example). The big issue would be how the money would be handled. It probably would be worth hiring a professional to keep the books and do budgets. The SEs have a little over 600 members and we took in nearly $50,000 this year (and we spent most of it on our normal stuff like tailgates, trips, charities and our teams). Now we're trying to figure out the '05 budget and we'll have to do a tax return. Hopefully this US group would be taking at least double that (so airline tickets and banners can be purchased ahead instead of waiting for money to come in after "passing the hat")

See this is where bringing in the MLS SC would be helpful, as I said there are people out there already doing the jobs needed for a national group at the local level.

K

 

It sounds like the trademark could be bought for cheap money. Hell, Spacone held out for $100 on the scarves for the El Salvador game?

I admit, I'd not crazy about the Sam's Army tag, but it's one of the few recognizable brands in US soccer. Every time the media sees organized us support, they label it "Sam's Army". I remember the friendly against Italy a few years ago. A dozen or so us military and tourists showed up in Sicily wearing us gear, and Rob Stone, or some other tool, remarked, look Sam's Army is here.

For those who have his contact info, does Spacone even respond anymore?

 

Many of the local supporters groups are themselves going through some kind of War of the Spanish Succession, with divisions and new splinter groups. Try going to some of these towns and saying: "Take Me to You Leader."

I agree with Fidlerre. Money is not the problem. The time commitment needed is phenomenal and the work is NOT already being done by local groups. Tax exempt filings, tax returns, and other extremely time-consuming projects have to be started from scratch. I think the SEs have been around for 10 years and they just got 527 status. And they are one of the most organized local groups.

Most of the die hards who have been active in Sam's Army or US Supporters are not terribly active in local groups. Some are but most are not. It is the old club versus country thing.

 

not personally knowing any of the die hards from Sam's Army (TM) or US Supporters groups, I do not know if this is true. And if it is, I wonder why that is so.

But I never thought there was ever a club or country problem for fans. Especially in the US, on the National team level, I always saw it as country versus ancestral country.

Club v country is an issue for the players and how they want to devote their career. I don't see how there could be allegiance issue for US/MLS fans of country versus club. I can understand time issues, and only desiring to concentrate your cheering and spending dollar one one group, but I wonder if "club versus country" can accurately apply to US Soccer fans.


perhaps the new approach should be not caring if "Most of the die hards who have been active in Sam's Army or US Supporters are not terribly active in local groups", but focus on getting those who are active in local groups more involved and able to participate as US fans without having to worry about a TM issue.

 

I'll tell you one allegiance issue that pisses me off. Why does the MLS continue to schedule games against USMNT qualifiers and matches? Particularly, those on FIFA international match dates?

Hey Garber & Co., here's the calendar in case you're having trouble finding it.

http://www.fifa.com/documents/fifa/events/calendar_2004_2008_E.pdf

 

This what I've been saying then.

 

this is certainly a valid point; one of the many challenges facing (potential) fans of MLS and/or US Soccer. It sure would be easier to organize the fan groups if the national and league organizations were more organized and more coordinated. In a game of follow the leader, it helps to have good leaders.

I wonder how soon, if ever, MLS HQ will address and alter their policy of (non)adherence to FIFA dates.

 

As long as it has nothing to do with MLS and EVRYHTING to do with the USMNT

 

Exactly. And two additional issues.

1. If MLS is off on international match dates possibly you could get more supporters groups from different parts of the country to enhance national support.

2. Now, don't hold me to my exact numbers. But with the call ups thourghout the year, a decent MLS player can miss a third of the season. Two missed matches in spring, two in june, one in august, two in september, and two in October (or at least this is what Hejduk's schedule was like last year).

 

I would like to see many more people involved, including those whoi are big MLS fans but no so interested in the national team. But don't you want to keep the hard core people too? You want as many fans as possible. That means caring about the old timers and hopefully new people as well.

If MLS supporters' groups run the show, what happens to people like Bigdog, who has done as much as anyone in the U.S. over the last 5 years to promote fan support?

 

Yes, keep everyone, but don't hinder the fan group's growth by turning it in to some old-boys' club with a TM attached to it and used to protect its "holiness" and at the same time perhaps limiting the prospects and impact of the fan group.

the thing about the MLS supporters' groups is that they have their own shows to run, but many would be able contributors to someone (anyone) effectively running an organized US Soccer Fans group. nothing has to happen to the old guard, Bigdog, JJ, Dwight, Skippy, Mitch, whoever. They should be as active as participants or leaders as they can be for the US Soccer Fans group.

 

great, now Thomas has got me reading the Declaration of Independence:

http://www.archives.gov/national_ar... Declaration of Independence: A Transcription

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States."

and it goes on from there.

 

there are also a fair amount of foreigners in any mls supporter's group

one shouldn't expect them to come over to national games with arms wide open


but i would admit that there are those with club vs country problems... and i think most of it comes from the country guys

 

PLEASE! No one is advocating an old boys' club. I think the young should lead as much as possible in this kind of thing.
Some of the people most active in MLS groups are not really national team fans. I know of a couple who scorn fellow Ameriucans who travel to friendlies and other "meaningless" games. We need all the help we can get, and their good offices, if our national teeam plays in their town. But don't expect them to be dedicated to the cause because they prefer their club team to the national team, and eveyone only has so much time to devote to soccer.

 

I think we need to have an intervention between all the parties involved.... locked in a smoke filled room in the Soccer House.... and have a mediator get involved......

 

I'm going to start an online petition.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ArsenalTexan3 again.